1972 Datsun 510 VG30DETT swap.

[CrustyDat]

I have a 1972 Datsun 510 that is a rolling chassis. My plan is to install a VG30DETT engine (already have) however, I'm not sure what transmission I should use. The plan is a slightly rowdy weekend car. I also plan on running a Haltech standalone ecu (already have). Any insights would be appreciated. Thanks

[Bleach]

What options do you have with that engine?

I would imagine a manual transmission for a Z32 is very hard to find now. The Infinity that comes with that engine almost always has an auto.

Is there a kit to use a 350Z/G35 6-speed? Those transmissions are sourcable at least. You'll need custom work in your 510 for mounting no matter what transmission you use.

 

If for some reason the Z31 5-speed bolts up then those transmissions are around as well. (VG30e)

[CrustyDat]

It is a factory 1993 vg30dett. I'm building a harness for it as well as most of the car. I'd like to keep the ac as well.

[CrustyDat]

If possible I would also like to not have to tear up the trans tunnel too much to make this fit. I'm aware I will need to do some trimming already in the engine compartment for the VG to fit with the turbos.

[Z23T]

There is a gentleman from Oregon that has had a VG30DETT 510 on the road for several years. It's currently going through a complete rebuild right now and you can see it on Instagram @twinturbodime I think he also has the buld listed under VG30DETT 510 over on the Realm.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Z23T

[Icehouse]

I vote cash that motor in a do an SR or a honda K motor.  The VG30DETT is so damn big.  Just going to be a huge project and in the end will really effect the balance of the car.  Plus the DETT engines are worth good money.  

[CrustyDat]

26 minutes ago, Icehouse said:

I vote cash that motor in a do an SR or a honda K motor.  The VG30DETT is so damn big.  Just going to be a huge project and in the end will really effect the balance of the car.  Plus the DETT engines are worth good money.  

 

I'm more interested in the VG30DETT myself than the SR, and as for the Honda engine I have no interest in it.

[Icehouse]

5 hours ago, CrustyDat said:

 

I'm more interested in the VG30DETT myself than the SR, and as for the Honda engine I have no interest in it.

 

 

I mean I don't think it's not a cool engine.  I've just never been a guy to build a car for the pop the hood cool factory. Also it's probably the only engine heavier then a LS.   SR was the easiest way to get a turbo RWD into a 510.  A 510 turbo is a huge project on it's own.  Now add in another turbo and more pipes.  Then if you make it to the finish line and drive the car it's balance is going to be way off.  I'm excited to follow the build thread either way.  Just giving my two cents. 

[paradime]

My $ .02 worth... You likely know that research is the best investment you can make on a project like this. There's plenty of 510 love, experience, and sage advice here. Ultimately, it's your 510 though, so build it as you see fit. Getting that much engine in a 510 is one thing, but it's important to consider what this car is and is not. Short of building a custom chassis, there's a high potential you won't be satisfied with the end result.

 

I saw that VG30DETT swapped 510 at Powerland 2022. The DETT with all it's cooling and plumbing is very wide, so the engine bay, hood, front brace, and suspension were customized to get it in. When I started my last 510 build I researched many engines with the intent to street bomb it and the occasional race in solo events. I was interested in a VG30DETT and talked to Dave Rebello about getting the parts to build one up. He talked me out of it with much the same points as icehouse.

 

* It requires an insane amount of fabrication with many mods that aren't easily reversible.

*The VG30's bottom end was not originally designed as a "performance" engine, so it requires big $ to get more power out of it.

*With everything so tight under the hood, you'll need to pull stuff apart just for simple servicing.

*The weight and required chassis upgrades throws the 510's balanced handling out of wack.

*Most of all, there's low return on all that investment for an engine that makes 220hp and 200 ft lb.  

 

On Dave's good advice, I went with an s13 high port SR20DET with a top mount Gen 2 GTX 2867r and Link G4 ECU. On a stock bottom end it's putting out an easily accessible 378hp and 313 ft lb at the wheels, insane handling, and it's an absolute riot to drive. My brother and I drove it from Ashland to Portland without a hiccup and put a Tesla Model 3 in it's place along the way. Granted, an SR swap is not as rare and exotic, but it makes loony power with minimal investment, and there's tons of aftermarket support and shared knowledge out there for doing the SR swap. VG30DETT swap, not so much.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by paradime

[Dave Lum]

I have a VG30DETT in my 510, I can speak to whatever questions you have.

As far as these bullet points:
 

* It requires an insane amount of fabrication with many mods that aren't easily reversible.
- This is 100% correct. The big ones are transmission tunnel and steering - you have to go to rack & pinion.
 

*The VG30's bottom end was not originally designed as a "performance" engine, so it requires big $ to get more power out of it.
- This is not correct, the VG30DETT out of the box can put down over 500whp with no modifications internally
 

*With everything so tight under the hood, you'll need to pull stuff apart just for simple servicing.
- This depends. Oil change is 90% as easy as a 510. Spark plugs change is also not really difficult.  Timing belt is about as pain in the but as any other timing belt swap.  Pull the radiator, yadda yadda. But by and large it's a non-issue
 

*The weight and required chassis upgrades throws the 510's balanced handling out of wack.
- Correct. I will note for a street and occasionally track day car, it's not as big of a deal as one might think.  But yes, it is no longer the nimble. light 510 anymore (mine weirds 2450lbs)
 

*Most of all, there's low return on all that investment for an engine that makes 220hp and 200 ft lb.  
- VG30DETT is 300hp, but I agree that for all intents and purposes, the VG30DE/DETT in a 510 isn't the way to go.  I did my VG/DE swap in 1997-98 when SR20's were still expensve and they weren't regularly making 300+whp yet.

A 400HP SR20DET will subjectively do anything my VG30DETT 510 can do.  A VQ35/37 is ~70lbs lighter than the VG30DE/DETT and has 500cc more displacement.

Having said that...it's something nobody else has and it's 100% ridiculous and fun. 

 

[RyanC]

Hmmm My BIL runs a mitsibishi 3.8 big turbo v6 in his lancer, he has has 1200hp sr20's etc and the 3.8 is an animal.  No idea on HP dyno is really just for tuning.

 

My point is larger displacement easy power.  Fitting it in a 510, thats something else, I was thinking this way for my 620 but that is now going another way, more room in the 620 up front.  For gearbox, not really harder than sr20, if you need help with an adapter plate let me know.  My BIL makes em out of billet.

 

Gtir sr20 pulsar with evo gearbox home made adapter - now going EV

s15 vk56 powerglide - made adapter

3.8 mitsi v6 mated to lancer 4wd - made adapter  

 

You get the picture.  IF your set on the VG30dett, your set on lots of custom work.

[Dave Lum]

Amen on the larder displacement and easy power. I am getting boost before 2,000RPM, have 200ft-lbs by 2200rpm, so quite drivable and no need for RPM's to make power. Plus, doesn't look like any other engine bay: 2k5view8.jpg (1024×768) (datsuns.com) 

[CrustyDat]

@Dave Lum I commented on a post you put on FB a while back as your build is what inspired me for mine. My 1972 is a complete roller no engine or trans installed so it is a blank canvas. I'm not interested in the easy route i have given myself a 10 year timeline to for the build so im not in any form of rush. I want to build this as a show quality car.

[Dave Lum]

I heard the Z31 trans will work which will eliminate the trans tunnel issues I ran in to.  The steering will be the next issue to figure out, and I recommend staying with cast manifolds vs. some custom thing.  Wiring will be easier than you'd expect, no firewall/strut mods are needed. In sequence
1. Figure out the transmission
2. Decide on intrcooler location (I have seen "single" intercoolers run on Z32s, basically two stacked vertically and in front of the radiator)
3. Decide steering

Removing the MAF and going to speed-density will save some critical space. Haltech makes it crazy easy if you are running their plug and play for Z32 (I literally scaled the injector size and fired it up)

From there everything else will fall into place.  You're welcome to DM me and/or come over to look at my car to get ideas as well, I've had the car so long I don't remember offhand all the decisions we made along the way, but keeping the trans tunnel close to stock will save considerable effort.

[rosso]

I have a VG33 in my 510 wagon and use a 5-speed FS5W71C (Z31 I think).

[Skib]

On 8/15/2023 at 9:52 AM, Dave Lum said:

Amen on the larder displacement and easy power. I am getting boost before 2,000RPM, have 200ft-lbs by 2200rpm, so quite drivable and no need for RPM's to make power. Plus, doesn't look like any other engine bay: 2k5view8.jpg (1024×768) (datsuns.com) 

 

Good to see you around here 👍

I remember your car from like 08/09? I was hanging out with Paul and Ron back then.

[RyanC]

2 hours ago, rosso said:

I have a VG33 in my 510 wagon and use a 5-speed FS5W71C (Z31 I think).

the 71C is found in many isn't it?  FJ/SR etc as well?

[rosso]

Yes, it is the stronger of the common 5-speeds and came with many motors as you mention. I don't know all the compatible engines or models it fits, maybe someone here can provide that information.

[RyanC]

The 1200 site seems all over it.  Didn't know there is a stumpy version.  Looks like I will be hunting one down in the future.

 

http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=71-Series_Transmission

[CrustyDat]

5 minutes ago, RyanC said:

The 1200 site seems all over it.  Didn't know there is a stumpy version.  Looks like I will be hunting one down in the future.

 

http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=71-Series_Transmission

Thank you for that information, I was just looking at my parts pile and it turns out I have a 5 speed transmission I can use already.

[RyanC]

Yeah I have one here from a 720 diesel will be swapping belhousings but I think I will chase a shorte 71C box down for behind the VK.

[Crashtd420]

11 hours ago, RyanC said:

Yeah I have one here from a 720 diesel will be swapping belhousings but I think I will chase a shorte 71C box down for behind the VK.

I think the short box was only the 71b.... it came in the mid 80s 720...

85-86... maybe the 84...

 

But you can modify the c bellhousing to work with the  stumpy tail section.

[Dave Lum]

On 8/16/2023 at 10:37 PM, Skib said:

 

Good to see you around here 👍

I remember your car from like 08/09? I was hanging out with Paul and Ron back then.

Yeah I am here on occasion. The car has had some upgrades since 08/09 and ....well, doesn't look the same. It got painted a couple weeks ago as well.