R1 Carbs (lots of pics)

[oldschool90]

All mine seemed to have loctite on them also when I took them apart (factory?), thankfully nothing broken. The problem I'm having is getting the bowl screws out

 

[OkieRA29]

For mine, I first soaked them liberally with PB Blaster. After letting them soak a bit, I got a small butane torch(triple flame cigar lighter) and applied heat to the area around the screw.  Using the largest screwdriver I had that fit my slot I cut, I applied as much weight as I could the the screw and did a quick twisting motion.  Usually, this was all it took to get the screw loose.   HTH

[spudly13]

if all else fails ive had luck with a small pair of vise grips on them to crack em loose. Carefull with those screws tho, if your to rough on them the threaded part like to break.

[Logical1]

Well, I have been using this thread as the base of info for my build & Serious thanks to all those that have contributed the epic amount of info so far! I picked up a good set of carbs from a 1999 Yahama YZF-R1 just over a month ago. Re-read this entire post and started into checking into my carbs. I opened up the float bowls & needle piston chamber. The screws that held both chambers closed were what looked to be factory sealed with some incarnation of locktite and because the builders used Philips screws (!@#%^&*) I ended up using some vice grips to 'crack' the screws. Inside I found 135 main jets and the needle clips set at the next to richest position (clip was on the second space up from the bottom) Everything looked good internally and I wanted to re-assemble the carbs with a more user friendly fastener. I headed down to my local fastener shop with the stock screws... From my experience with SU carbs I wanted to use some stainless cap head screws (the kind a allen wrench fits in) and ended up finding just that for under $10 for all screws & lock washers. (they are M5 x 16mm)The only problem I found was the screws used to hold the piston dome tops down. They are a "metric screw with shoulder" This style is all but unheard of in the good ol' USA. I started formulating a plan and picked up the stainless cap head screws (which happen to be the same length and thread for the piston cap and float bowl). My plan was to get some nylon spacers from the local hardware store and make my own 'shoulder'. I found what I was looking for at Lowes. Unfortunately the spacers that fit into the piston dome caps were too small of a bore for the screws so I had to bore them out with a drill bit (no biggie). After drilling them out, I fit the spacers into the cap and trimmed off the excess with a razor knife. Everything worked out surprisingly well and I assembled the carbs. I think it looks sweet with the new hardware and is a shit load easier to get into the carbs when needed. Hope this helps out some folks with similar problems and I look forward to posting up my build with these carbs.... Did I mention it's a KA24DE?  :devil:  I have a matchbox dizzy mounted and timed, just need to finish the intake manifold (using a stock intake, cutting & tiging tubes to it) Now for the Pics:

 

 

 

 

 

[slingshot532]

More info, pics, on how you mounted the distributor on the Ka24de.

 

 

 

Looking sweet!

[VintageRice]

Nice job logical1 ! ! 

 

 

Kinda wish I woulda went DE...............for the option of using sohc pistons for higher compression.  And the intake(like you doing) is EZier to get done and uses the factory flange(like your doing) which eliminates all the leaking issues I had early in my build.

 

Keep us updated!!

[OkieRA29]

Nice job! Still working on mine. Just got a spare manifold so at least I can start figuring out the intake manifold design

[DADZSUN]

Just received my KA24e Bogg manifold today. I also received an R1 fuel pump so that I'm 100% certain the pressure is perfect.

 

Unfortunately, I won't be installing the KA24e (stock except for 3 angle valve and JWT cam) until this winter. Apparently he's making another one right now - anyone on this board?

 

 

 

[Stupid_fast]

I have the other one !!! Its for my friends wagon!

 

 

I just got it today, too!

 

 

 

 

So I was playing around with my carbs tonight trying to figure out what was causing the light throttle popping (lean pop out the carb ...), I tried blocking off various circuits(idle air bleed ...)  and it made no difference, but I did find something interesting ...

The 2" velocity stacks I have on raise the AFR by 2 points according to my wideband !! I tried with on, tried with off... sure enough 2 points more lean with the stacks on!   Crazy I didn't know it effected the tune that much. 

 

 

Finally put new valve springs on !

My engine seems to be great around 6000rpm about 12.9:1 afr, then around 6700-7000 it starts choking out down to 11.5:1 ... 11:1 .. Oh well, seems I only have about 6400rpm.

Still pulls to 7k all day if I really want it to...just doesn't make much power past 6500.   I suspect head work is needed to get this thing breathing better. 

[VintageRice]

2 whole points?!?!  Or .2 ???

 

If its 2 points u mean takes it from say 14.0 to 12.0!?   Holy crap if so

[Stupid_fast]

10:1 with them off, 12:1 with them on.

 

Went out on a back road, did a pull with them off, stopped and put them back on, and did a pull over the same stretch several times.  Yeah good stacks effect the velocity that much.

 

the two screws at the mouth of the carburetor ... you can remove this peice and decrease the stack size like 1" ... I removed those and it made it even more rich.  It was stumbling around 3000rpm WOT...  that was While I was playing with the air bleed stuff.

 

Thats probably why I'm running 190 jets to keep it rich ... 12.9:1 at 6000~6500rpm

 

Going to pick up some jet needles right now to take measurements off of.  Depending on my findings may be getting the needles to correct my low end issues.

[VintageRice]

Crazy!  wb02 and LSD are officially on my expensive but necessary list.

[drummingpariah]

I didnt get a chance to read through this entire thread, but I've been working on a similar project for my l6 and it's easier to ask if anyone has already fabricated a manifold, or if I should just continue with my fabrication efforts.

 

 

By their powers combined ...

 

[Stupid_fast]

Thats going to be slick on a 2.8!

 

Did you consider combining the second set 3rd carb in to have two fuel inlets ? It may help on a 2.8.  Depends on how much power you're putting down.

 

 

 

I got one needle jet in ... its too lean for my setup but I'll post my results... For science!

 

Anyone else have luck with aftermarket needles?  

[drummingpariah]

Thats going to be slick on a 2.8!

 

Did you consider combining the second set 3rd carb in to have two fuel inlets ? It may help on a 2.8.  Depends on how much power you're putting down.

For now, my goals are reasonably tame. Stock head, stock cam, stock valves on an n42 block should produce around 150whp if it's decently tuned running standard vac-advance ignition. These carbs are slightly different from the r1, they came off a GSXR750 so they're a little undersized (36mm instead of 40mm). I'm fairly certain that will limit my top end, but swapping in r1 carbs later won't be a big challenge. I'm mostly interested in just getting a coarse tune and starting data logging on them. I have 3 fuel inlets right now, and will probably just run the stock mechanical l24 fuel pump for the time being. As long as I get enough flow to keep the floats full, I'm a happy camper.

 

I have some concerns about hard cornering, though. The stock SU's had swivel floats to accommodate cornering forces, but as far as the carbs are concerned, that's the equivalent of a sustained wheelie or stoppie. Any results on extended +1g cornering loads on AFR readings? This will hopefully end up on my hillclimb car, I'd like to try to address as many problems as possible before thrashing it though.

[Stupid_fast]

Think about it this way,

 

A sport bike is designed to run cornering leaned over at extreme angles and keep the mixture the same.

 

Don't you think they'd be able to handle corners just as well, or better than a gravity style float bowl? 

 

My R1's run through a canyon all day and I never notice AFR changes in corners.   These are vacuum feed CV carbs.  You should never have an issue once they're tuned right. 

 

I am running the stock R1 BIKE electric fuel pump!! it quits pumping when the float bowls are full ... probably shuts of once pressure reaches a certain point.  Works great. 

[drummingpariah]

Think about it this way,

 

A sport bike is designed to run cornering leaned over at extreme angles and keep the mixture the same.

 

Don't you think they'd be able to handle corners just as well, or better than a gravity style float bowl? 

 

My R1's run through a canyon all day and I never notice AFR changes in corners.   These are vacuum feed CV carbs.  You should never have an issue once they're tuned right. 

I am running the stock R1 BIKE electric fuel pump!! it quits pumping when the float bowls are full ... probably shuts of once pressure reaches a certain point.  Works great. 

I may not be explaining myself sufficiently. In our cars, the engine and carbs are mounted sideways which means that a turn in the Datsun is the equivalent to a wheelie/stoppie on a bike. I'm not sure if the carbs actually care or not, though. On a bike, turning means leaning so the fuel is still being pushed toward the bottom of the float bowl. In our cars, turning just means lateral G's which push fuel into the SIDE of the float bowl (same behavior as a bike riding a constant wheelie).

[Stupid_fast]

Ahhh I see what you're saying.  My bad.

 

Yeah, I haven't heard of a problem yet, even with the different loading. 

 

Its a good point to bring up, but I'm pretty sure as long as you have the correct pressure/float setting and bowl angle you should be fine. 

[drummingpariah]

There seems to be a fair amount of first-hand experience here, and it's usable information (VW and Honda owners who attempt this are running the carbs in their default layout, so they don't have this concern)

[VintageRice]

There seems to be a fair amount of first-hand experience here, and it's usable information (VW and Honda owners who attempt this are running the carbs in their default layout, so they don't have this concern)

Also, they are very busy buying flat billed caps and fancy new drift charms........

[Parkinglotslider521]

Just figured I'd post this, its an exploded view of the r1 carbs, and you can order every individual part.

www.cheapcycleparts.com/oem-parts/yamaha/2000/yzf-r1m/carburetor

[07FlyingWagon]

oh wow...  55 pages of EPICLY-Epic information....

 

I have been on the hunt now for a set of R1s for my L20!!! :-)  So awesome folks!  Thanks so much to everyone who had contributed! 

 

I know its been said before once, mabye even twice already, but this should totally be Pinned ! :thumbup:  :thumbup: :thumbup:   B)  B) B)  

[Stupid_fast]

Does anyone have any progress on figuring out the detailed tuning bits on these carbs?

 

 

I'm still trying to get mine working right.

 

 

 

I've had no luck with finding better needles either ...

[OkieRA29]

No help on tuning parts, I am still trying to get mine apart.  If anybody has a spare number 2 carb body that they would be willing to sell really cheap, it would help.  I still can not get the screw out of the air horn side of my carb.  I am going to try a second set of bolt extractors this weekend, but I don't hold out much hope.  See below for my problem.

 

 

Sorry man, no joy on the needles so far.  I do have this complaint to make though,  Who uses blue loctitie on brass screws????

 

 

 

All the screws on the intake side of the carbs had loctite on them.  Of course, this was only noticed after I had stripped two of the screw heads.  After two days, I finally got one out, but will have to tap the hole for bigger screws.  The other, I broke the extractor off in it... I have since snapped three drill bits trying to get the extractor out...

[07FlyingWagon]

I love this carb setup so far.  Even not perfectly dialed in its very smooth below 2000rpm drive able around town, throttle response and power at the top are great too.

 

Had my datsun mechanic friend ride in it, it is not pinging.  He said to pull it up to 7k, It pulls all the way to 7100 ... power drops off about 6800rpm with this cam. 

 

I do have to get the low end perfect with the wideband, but so far its running great.  180 main jets, 17.5 pilots, needles set half way.  Friend set up the idle mix I still gotta count the turns and figure out where he set it.

 

It still pops on decel around 3000rpm, but its a lot less than when I first got it going. 

 

Here's what it sounds like on a cammed L20b.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrMIsK7S9EE&feature=youtu.be

 

This road is completely uphill ... just sayin.

 

Damn that sounds good!!!  Where did you get your cam?  Any idea of Specs?  I have a L20B as well :-)