Transmission Disassembly Help

[Poptartjake]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

TOB would be in use and under load with the clutch pedal down, and not spinning with the pedal up.

Alright, that's opposite what's happening then since depressing the clutch removes the noise, I'm gonna assume the TOB is good (it seemed just fine which is why I reused the old one). 

Let's assume the oil seal is touching the input shaft bearing and the noise is from spinning metal touching rubber. How catastrophic of a failure would this cause, in theory? 

[datzenmike]

You wouldn't hear that. This is metal. Everything but reverse is spinning in neutral.

 

Did you only have the tail off?

[Poptartjake]

19 hours ago, datzenmike said:

You wouldn't hear that. This is metal. Everything but reverse is spinning in neutral.

 

Did you only have the tail off?

No? When I had to get it back into neutral, I pulled both sides of the case off so I could properly reseal each side. 

[datzenmike]

The front has a snap ring and a shim... these went back in as they came out?

 

What did you seal the cover plate with? Gasket or RTV?

[Poptartjake]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

The front has a snap ring and a shim... these went back in as they came out?

 

What did you seal the cover plate with? Gasket or RTV?

Yes, the shim went on around the bearing and the snap ring went on the input shaft against the bearing.

I used a gasket for the front cover. 

I think it's a bearing that's making that noise.. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Poptartjake

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

If you had the shift forks and rods out, it is possible to install the roll pins too far upon reassembly. Those will make noise as they contact the gears.

 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Hard to get into gear is likely a clutch adjustment problem. Does it shift easily when the engine is not running?

[datzenmike]

If you listen to the video the whine stops as soon as the clutch is depressed. I think he meant the shifter is sloppy.

[Poptartjake]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

If you listen to the video the whine stops as soon as the clutch is depressed. I think he meant the shifter is sloppy.

That's probably just what's going on, I've never had a manual that's this sloppy, though. It's like stirring a can of soup, so to speak.... When I do find second gear, it feels like it's fighting me as I push into it. 

[Poptartjake]

3 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Hard to get into gear is likely a clutch adjustment problem. Does it shift easily when the engine is not running?

Huh, it shifts into gear no problem without the engine running..

[datzenmike]

With the engine running and in neutral, depress the clutch and place into reverse slowly.  Is there any grinding?

[Poptartjake]

33 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

With the engine running and in neutral, depress the clutch and place into reverse slowly.  Is there any grinding?

No grinding. Sitting still with the engine on from neutral, all gears are actually just fine to shift in and out of (just tested). 

 

Interestingly, after shifting into reverse, it doesn't want to go into 4th from neutral. I need to go into like 3rd, let out the clutch a little, go back into neutral, then 4th is free to shift into. Not sure if that means anything.. Additionally, the sound is definitely coming from the tail housing as it sounds almost directly below the shifter (so maybe the bearing on the tail side of the input shaft?).

 

[datzenmike]

After reverse, while in the neutral gate, slide the shifter all the way left as far as it will go then right and down into 4th. Does that work?

 

Try shifting from 5th into reverse. The reverse check sleeve should prevent this.

 

 

[Poptartjake]

35 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

After reverse, while in the neutral gate, slide the shifter all the way left as far as it will go then right and down into 4th. Does that work?

 

Try shifting from 5th into reverse. The reverse check sleeve should prevent this.

 

 

Reverse to Neutral, all the way left, then into fourth seemed to work fine.

5th into reverse was a no go. I had to go into neutral before reverse would unlock. 

Out of curiosity, does it/could it matter at all that I've yet to really even let it run long enough for the dash temp gauge to get up to normal? I've driven it around the block a couple times, but that was all. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Poptartjake

[datzenmike]

10 minutes ago, Poptartjake said:

Reverse to Neutral, all the way left, then into fourth seemed to work fine.

 

Well, when would you ever need to use 4th after reverse?

 

10 minutes ago, Poptartjake said:

5th into reverse was a no go. I had to go into neutral before reverse would unlock.

 

That's the way it's supposed to work.

 

10 minutes ago, Poptartjake said:

Out of curiosity, does it/could it matter at all that I've yet to really even let it run long enough for the dash temp gauge to get up to normal? I've driven it around the block a couple times, but that was all. 

 

The front case was off, any chance that the oil gutter was bent against the gears?

 

I changed the oil once and found chunks of metal, puled the transmission and found nothing. Then saw the gutter was mission. I guess it fell out and was ground up.

[Poptartjake]

4 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

Well, when would you ever need to use 4th after reverse?

 

 

That's the way it's supposed to work.

 

 

The front case was off, any chance that the oil gutter was bent against the gears?

 

I changed the oil once and found chunks of metal, puled the transmission and found nothing. Then saw the gutter was mission. I guess it fell out and was ground up.

Um. I think something like that must have happened? I did not see anything like that when it was apart. 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Not all of them had the gutter.

[datzenmike]

All 71B 4 speeds had them but only '80 and up 5 speeds.

 

There was also a long 'eves trough' in the tail that lubricates the rear bushing, speedo worm gear and rear main bearing. I've seen some with and without but I think the one in the picture they all had to force circulation of oil into the rear.

 

 

You can see it in the lower right, looks like square tubing.

[Poptartjake]

Well, not sure what I should do as I'm not dropping the trans again for a good while. It's far too cold for me to want to work on it in the parking lot lol. 

 

I don't want to leave it sitting for months, so should I periodically warm it up/drive it down the street and back?

[datzenmike]

Sitting in the cold is fine. My 710 has sat for 6 months through the winter before as I only drive it in the summer. I used to take the battery out but now I fire it up every month or two for 20 min but this is only to top up the battery. Make sure your anti freeze is good for well below the coldest temperature you expect.

 

You can start and drive it down the street if you want but really all you need is to keep the battery charged up. If it's easier bring the battery indoors and put a charger on it once a month.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I see this as two separate problems.

 

One is the problem of the noise.

 

Two is the not going into gear.

 

If you get the going into gear problem solved (again, I think it's clutch) then the noise can be diagnosed separately.

[datzenmike]

23 hours ago, Poptartjake said:

No grinding. Sitting still with the engine on from neutral, all gears are actually just fine to shift in and out of (just tested). 

 

Interestingly, after shifting into reverse, it doesn't want to go into 4th from neutral. I need to go into like 3rd, let out the clutch a little, go back into neutral, then 4th is free to shift into. Not sure if that means anything.. Additionally, the sound is definitely coming from the tail housing as it sounds almost directly below the shifter (so maybe the bearing on the tail side of the input shaft?).

 

 

Updated info.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The sound it makes, is that driving only or just running? There are three roll pins in the shift mechanism in the tailhousing. Installing one of them too far may cause it to hit the fifth gear (I think...)

 

 

[Poptartjake]

On 1/3/2021 at 10:55 AM, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

The sound it makes, is that driving only or just running? There are three roll pins in the shift mechanism in the tailhousing. Installing one of them too far may cause it to hit the fifth gear (I think...)

 

 

Sorry for the late reply, got tied up with stuff over this last week. 

The noise is present while just running/idling. I found a YT video with the same noise at idle and silence when depressing the clutch. He claims it's a bearing that's causing the sound.  

 

I installed all roll pins until they sat flush like when I removed them. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Poptartjake