Transmission Disassembly Help

[Draker]

Just get the snap ring out of the groove, knock the pin out of the shift fork, then slide the rod out of the fork?

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Yes, shift rods have to come out.

 

Once everything behind the mid plate is removed, then you can smack the plate off the shafts using a soft hammer. Be careful that there are ball detents in the shafts that will fall out once you get the mid plate moving. I make stacks of parts as I get them removed, so that they come off as they need to go back together. Be sure to catch the balls as they fall, otherwise you'll  be in a world of hurt.

 

[Poptartjake]

10 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Yes, shift rods have to come out.

 

Once everything behind the mid plate is removed, then you can smack the plate off the shafts using a soft hammer. Be careful that there are ball detents in the shafts that will fall out once you get the mid plate moving. I make stacks of parts as I get them removed, so that they come off as they need to go back together. Be sure to catch the balls as they fall, otherwise you'll  be in a world of hurt.

 

Ya, I've got 2 balls out so far and 1 longer "pill" looking one, which came from the first 2 shift forks. 

 

11 hours ago, Draker said:

Just get the snap ring out of the groove, knock the pin out of the shift fork, then slide the rod out of the fork?

The snap ring is an E clip and I've tried several times to get it off, but I just end up slipping and risk damaging the gears below it, which I'm really trying not to do 😛 

[datzenmike]

13 hours ago, Poptartjake said:

The OD and Reverse shift fork is on the rear side, but maybe you're right. I just can't get my jaws around it with the fork still on.

 

But they are on the main shaft. They don't prevent the counter from being removed.

[Poptartjake]

14 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

But they are on the main shaft. They don't prevent the counter from being removed.

I thinking of getting a 2 jaw puller today to try. I'm feeling like the 3 jaw is more hindering than helping at this point. 

Any recommendations for brand/style? 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

 

But they are on the main shaft. They don't prevent the counter from being removed.

The way to disassemble this type of trans is to remove both shafts together, or more precisely, remove the mid plate from the shafts.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

55 minutes ago, Poptartjake said:

I thinking of getting a 2 jaw puller today to try. I'm feeling like the 3 jaw is more hindering than helping at this point. 

Any recommendations for brand/style? 

Just because you can't get the e-clip off? Push it down slightly then stick the sharp end of a small screwdriver inside and pull it off. But catch it as it flies away!

 

If you want to try the puller method, there are dozens of different styles to chose from. Just saying two finger puller still leaves you plenty of options. I am biased, but I would get a quality puller from someone like Snap-On. Proto also makes a decent tool.

 

This type of puller uses a bearing splitter to go behind the bearing or gear and is the safest, meaning that it is less likely to damage the gear - https://shop.snapon.com/product/Bar-Type-Interchangeable-Pullers/Pulley-and-Gear-Puller/CJ83C

[Poptartjake]

23 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Just because you can't get the e-clip off? Push it down slightly then stick the sharp end of a small screwdriver inside and pull it off. But catch it as it flies away!

 

If you want to try the puller method, there are dozens of different styles to chose from. Just saying two finger puller still leaves you plenty of options. I am biased, but I would get a quality puller from someone like Snap-On. Proto also makes a decent tool.

 

This type of puller uses a bearing splitter to go behind the bearing or gear and is the safest, meaning that it is less likely to damage the gear - https://shop.snapon.com/product/Bar-Type-Interchangeable-Pullers/Pulley-and-Gear-Puller/CJ83C

I'll try some more to get that stupid E-clip off, but it just doesn't want to budge. From what I can tell, that's the only thing preventing the rod from sliding out of the rear shift fork/mechanism. 

[datzenmike]

47 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

The way to disassemble this type of trans is to remove both shafts together, or more precisely, remove the mid plate from the shafts.

 

If disassembling it. I thought all he wanted was the input gear off. I'm sure I took mine off by just removing the counter driven gear. (his is stuck) So all you need is to remove the counter gear cluster. I think there is a nut a bearing and two gears on the counter shaft behind the adapter plate. Get them off and the counter shaft should come forward and out

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

15 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

If disassembling it. I thought all he wanted was the input gear off. I'm sure I took mine off by just removing the counter driven gear. (his is stuck) So all you need is to remove the counter gear cluster. I think there is a nut a bearing and two gears on the counter shaft behind the adapter plate. Get them off and the counter shaft should come forward and out

Right, his is stuck, hence the disassembly. It's really not much work to remove the shafts from the mid plate. Maybe 5 minutes on a work bench.

 

I would rather disassemble the entire trans to get at it than risk damaging the counter gear with a puller. It is very easy to chip a corner off those gears.

[datzenmike]

On 8/2/2020 at 10:23 AM, Poptartjake said:

So, I'm trying to get the input shaft out of my FS5W71C and am having trouble getting the counter drive gear (circled in red) off. I've got a 3 jaw puller, which I used to get the counter drive bearing off, but even with my impact wrench, I'm not really getting any movement from the gear. I'm feeling like I'm missing something that's keeping the gear locked in place, but I'm not sure what as the manual doesn't indicate anything and I don't see anything like a snap ring. I've watched several videos, read tons of posts and have the FSM up while I've been working on it for reference. Really need to get this input shaft off today so I can confirm it's the only part I need to order in (fingers crossed).
 

 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

???

[Poptartjake]

Ya, plans changed since the original post as there just is no way I'm getting the counter gear off by itself. I've tried heating it, torquing on it, dislodging it with force, nothing. No give at all. So I'm disassembling behind the mid plate to be able to punch the counter shaft forward a bit, then remove the input shaft. I could probably remove the rear gears without taking off the entire shift fork assembly, but it should be easier if I can get the assembly off. 

[datzenmike]

  I don't see why it has to be totally dismantled because you don't. Lot of work. 

 

[Poptartjake]

Okay, I feel stupid right now lol. I got that E-clip off in about 20 seconds just now.... Helps when you approach it from the right angle. I'm now here, which I believe means I can bang that shaft forward and hopefully get the input shaft off?

[Poptartjake]

Think I finally need to buy a dead blow hammer. Mallet isn't doing shit 😛 Which doesn't surprise me consider I couldn't even get punch pins out using a mallet.

[Draker]

Now take the tail shaft bearing off, remove the nut. Slide the gears off, take off a few more snap rings. Take off the metal plate, then the two shafts will slide forward out of the center plate and then you can remove the input shaft. They might not have to slide all the way out of the middle plate to get the input shaft off.

 

pro tip: if you hammer the main shaft out of the center plate it might shift the center bearing a bit. Before reinstalling make sure it’s seated all the way forward toward the input shaft. Otherwise you’ll get it all back together and find out you can’t get the snap ring on. 

[Poptartjake]

1 minute ago, Draker said:

Now take the tail shaft bearing off, remove the nut. Slide the gears off, take off a few more snap rings. Take off the metal plate, then the two shafts will slide forward out of the center plate and then you can remove the input shaft. They might not have to slide all the way out of the middle plate to get the input shaft off.

 

pro tip: if you hammer the main shaft out of the center plate it might shift the center bearing a bit. Before reinstalling make sure it’s seated all the way forward toward the input shaft. Otherwise you’ll get it all back together and find out you can’t get the snap ring on. 

Aw, I know what plate you're talking about. So, I do need to remove all the others gears off the main shaft too? 

[Poptartjake]

Got the bearing and both snap rings off, but I don't have a cartoon sized monkey wrench to get this lock nut off with, so I'm going to go pick one up. 

I'm also not too sure about getting the bent part of the nut up enough as my screwdrivers aren't doing the job.

EDIT: Wrench acquired, but I can't keep the shaft from spinning while wrenching on the lock nut. Advice? Am I just needing to release the staking more and it should spin off easily? No cold chisels on hand, BTW.

 

[DanielC]

Put the transmission in first or second gear. and reverse.    You cannot do this with the shift lever, you have to move the shift rods, and forks themselves.

[Poptartjake]

20 minutes ago, DanielC said:

Put the transmission in first or second gear. and reverse.    You cannot do this with the shift lever, you have to move the shift rods, and forks themselves.

Haha, those are no longer in the transmission. I'm pretty sure I'm just needing to release the stake more

[Draker]

3 hours ago, Poptartjake said:

Haha, those are no longer in the transmission. I'm pretty sure I'm just needing to release the stake more

just move the shift sleeves by hand. Put it in two gears at once and it won’t spin at all. I usually put a small pick, screw driver, or pointy chisele under the stake and hammer away.

[Draker]

8 hours ago, Poptartjake said:

Aw, I know what plate you're talking about. So, I do need to remove all the others gears off the main shaft too? 

Again  I haven’t done a 71c, but all the others I’ve done require you to remove those gears. They most likely aren’t pressed on. Should be held with snap rings. Be careful some have tiny ball bearings under them. Use caution when removing. The little bearing can fall out and will be hard to find once it hits the floor. It’s not really a bearing, more of a detent.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Draker

[Poptartjake]

9 hours ago, Draker said:

just move the shift sleeves by hand. Put it in two gears at once and it won’t spin at all. I usually put a small pick, screw driver, or pointy chisele under the stake and hammer away.

I only have the shift sleeves on the front portion at this point. The rear shift sleeve is off, which I assume I'd need to engage reverse? Sorry, I've struggled to understand what gear is which during this whole process 😵

[Draker]

2 hours ago, Poptartjake said:

I only have the shift sleeves on the front portion at this point. The rear shift sleeve is off, which I assume I'd need to engage reverse? Sorry, I've struggled to understand what gear is which during this whole process 😵

Any two gears will work