Datsunking Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Can I put msd on my 521? Or does it need to have electronic distributor? Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 You can run MSD with both points and electronic dizzys. Instead of a hall effect sensor triggering the MSD, the points act as the trigger. They claim the points gap doesn't even matter anymore (within reason) since you don't have to deal with dwell from the coil. In fact, I think a lot of the hot rod guys run their cars this way. I guess my question is, why though? You can get a remanufactured matchbox dizzy for less than half the price. Throw in a 3 ohm coil, bypass the ballast, gap the plugs to ~.043" and you're pretty much where the MSD would get you. BTW, you could get away with running the 6A if you really wanted to. It's a bit cheaper. 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 The points will still be subject to wear. MSGs are a waste of money. You won't notice a thing different comparing to a good points set up. I guess my question is, why though? You can get a remanufactured matchbox dizzy for less than half the price. Throw in a 3 ohm coil, bypass the ballast, gap the plugs to ~.043" and you're pretty much where the MSD would get you. This if you want higher output. Better starting and idle but on a stock engine not much else. Biggest gains are not having to fiddle with, file or adjust or replace the points. Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 just clutters up your engine bay. Quote Link to comment
d.p Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 You can run MSD with both points and electronic dizzys. Instead of a hall effect sensor triggering the MSD, the points act as the trigger. They claim the points gap doesn't even matter anymore (within reason) since you don't have to deal with dwell from the coil. In fact, I think a lot of the hot rod guys run their cars this way. I guess my question is, why though? You can get a remanufactured matchbox dizzy for less than half the price. Throw in a 3 ohm coil, bypass the ballast, gap the plugs to ~.043" and you're pretty much where the MSD would get you. BTW, you could get away with running the 6A if you really wanted to. It's a bit cheaper. Got a link to a re-pop'd matchbox dizzy? I went through this recently and went from dual points dizzy to a single point pertronix that crash gave me. Was originally trying to go with el dizzy. Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Got a link to a re-pop'd matchbox dizzy? I went through this recently and went from dual points dizzy to a single point pertronix that crash gave me. Was originally trying to go with el dizzy. RockAuto. 1979 Datsun 620. Last I checked it was around $130. The problem is you need the correct bottom mounting plate. I heard you can also modify the existing mounting plate to work with the newer dizzy. A1-Cardone P/N: 31610. Quote Link to comment
flatcat19 Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 The MSD box does what the module on a matchbox dizzy does. Grab a dizzy from a 78 and use the MSD. MSD actually makes a harness for this exact application. Quote Link to comment
d.p Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 RockAuto. 1979 Datsun 620. Last I checked it was around $130. The problem is you need the correct bottom mounting plate. I heard you can also modify the existing mounting plate to work with the newer dizzy. A1-Cardone P/N: 31610. Yeah that was the problem I ran into. I got a spare plate/mount from an L16 but not sure it works with a dizzy from a 79 620. Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Yeah that was the problem I ran into. I got a spare plate/mount from an L16 but not sure it works with a dizzy from a 79 620. Can you modify it? Quote Link to comment
d.p Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Can you modify it? I am sure I could but I never had a matchbox dizzy on hand to see what needed to be modified. Sure someone here can answer that. Quote Link to comment
racerx Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 I think msd is over rated. Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 I think msd is over rated. For the cost, I wouldn't either. The most reliable and maintenance free option is the matchbox. I run Pertronix in my Roadster (because it was easy, and I can) but Pertronix have been known to leave people stranded. I keep the points in a toolbag in the trunk. Quote Link to comment
racerx Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Been running Pertonix for 15 years, on 510, and has not left me stranded. My 65 mustang 20 years and no issue. But then again I only drive it like 1X a month. With Datsun 510, it was the distributor that was the issue. Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 I heard of not running a point coil or removing the ballast resistor will POSIBLE pop the module or just running a EI coil w/o ballast also. also the tape wearing out and the magnets getting stuck on the dist if the magnet ring is pulled off. Matchboxes also wear out and break over time MSD has schematics on how to use both points and Pertronix to make a 6A work. after 3 k it goes to 1 spark anyways Quote Link to comment
DanielC Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 I used a matchbox distributor on a stock L-16, using the L-16 dual point distributor pedestal, and L-16 timing plate. The Matchbox distributor has a larger diameter than the stock L-16 dual point distributor. The diameter of the distributors that go into the pedestal is the same, and the distributor body can rotate in the pedestal, and the timing plate clocks, or holds the distributor body from rotating, so you can set the timing. There is a bolt that goes down through the timing plate, into the pedestal, and a second bolt that goes up through the timing plate into the distributor. The bolt that goes up through the timing plate into the distributor is farther away from the center line of the distributor on the matchbox distributor. When I used L-16 timing plate with the matchbox distributor, I used a 1/32 cutoff disk to cut the tab on the timing plate that has the slot for the bolt that goes up into the distributor off the plate. I then placed a piece of 1/16 welding rod in the space between the cut off tab, and the rest of the timing plate, and then welded the pieces together. This made the slot in the timing plate line up with the bolt hole in the bottom of the matchbox distributor. The matchbox distributor fires a spark plug when the four points on the rotor inside the distributor line up with the four points on the stator. Because of different distributor indexing between the matchbox distributor I used, and the stock L-16 distributor, I had to drop the oil pump, and change the position of the distributor drive spindle. You may not have to do this. The distributor drive spindle and the distributor will only go together one way. Put the timing plate on the distributor, about centered in the adjusting slot. With the engine at 10 BTDC, number one, put the distributor and timing plate into the pedestal, and see if the bolt that goes down through timing plate into then pedestal is again in the about in the center of the adjusting slot, with the four points on the rotor lining up with the four points on the stator (pick up). If the points line up, you are good. If the four points are far apart, you will need to drop the oil pump, and drive spindle. You cannot just turn the distributor to change this. You have to drop the oil pump spindle. To do this, I rotated the engine crankshaft clockwise, viewed from the front, looking back, to 10 degreed BTDC, number one cylinder. I then made a mark on the distributor body where I wanted the number one spark plug tower to be, taking into account you want the matchbox electronic module on the distributor to face forward, away from the exhaust manifold heat. The distributor drive spindle again only fits the distributor one way. Remove the oil pump, turn the drive spindle to where you want it to be, put the oil pump back in, with the spindle, and try the distributor again. When the four points line up in the distributor, then you can tighten up the four bolts holding the oil pump, and tighten the bolts holding the distributor. There are three electrical connections on a matchbox distributor. Two are on the matchbox module, "B" and "C", and a third ground connection. "B" goes to positive power from the ignition switch, and the positive side of the ignition coil. "C" goes to the negative side of the coil. Do not omit the ground connection. I ran a wire from the ground connection on the matchbox, to one of the small bolts that connect the cylinder head at the front to the cam chain cover. 2 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 If you get a matchbox why the fuck would you also use it to run an MSG for?????? That's like using an RB26 as a starter on an L20B. This is an L16 not a race car. A Pertronix will get rid of the points, a matchbox does the same but higher output. Besides zero maintenance you might get better starting and smoother idle. MSDs are over priced over hyped crap. Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Explain to me how you get higher output from a matchbox vs. a Pertronix. Does the matchbox allow a longer charge cycle for the coil or something? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Hainz will know but I believe the Pertronix requires that you keep the points ballast and coil... so really you are only getting rid of the points. A good enough reason in the first place. I believe that if you run a lower impedance coil, you can overload the Pertronix and burn it out. The EI distributors, (remote igniter and matchbox) do not use a ballast resistor and they do use a lower impedance coil for a much higher output. This allows you to open up the plug gap to 0.042" Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 That’s not correct. Even Pertronix sells higher output coils to run with their hall effect sensor. You can run a 3 ohm coil and ditch the ballast, then gap the plugs higher. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Three ohm coil is the same as the stock 1.5 ohm coil plus the 1.5 ohm ballast so they are just fooling you.. The EI coils are under one ohm resistance. These will draw over twice the current through the Pertronix unit. Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Matter of fact you might get better starting with the staock set up as on START your bypassing the Ballast and it will be only 1.5 ohms during start than a 3 ohm. I like the Pertronix as there are lots of single point distributors that still can be used up(in peoples stash boxes) if the matchbox runs out. as those are on 2 or 3 years that they were made. Quote Link to comment
d.p Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 If you get a matchbox why the fuck would you also use it to run an MSG for?????? That's like using an RB26 as a starter on an L20B. This is an L16 not a race car. A Pertronix will get rid of the points, a matchbox does the same but higher output. Besides zero maintenance you might get better starting and smoother idle. MSDs are over priced over hyped crap. Smoother idle with what exactly? Matchbox over pertronix? I ask because my idle is anything but smooth after I swapped the pertronix in. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Try adjusting your idle mixture for the smoothest running. I don't think the Pertonix is higher output than the points so it probably won't be better than points just gets rid of them. Idle mixtures are usually close to stoichiometric and can be a little harder to ignite. A hot fat spark is always better. Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 I stumbled upon this today. Anyone ever tried it? They claim it's a direct drop in for the L16. http://www.hot-spark.com/1-HS-HIT4-Distributor.htm Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Believe its a Chinese knockoff. Not too much known about them on here. Its a Pertronix clone more or less but you get a new distributor. Dont know the mounting plate on how it fits as the L16 mount is smaller and L18/20 is bigger and how the tang relationship is envolved(timming of the distributor) if its universal Quote Link to comment
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