suspension/chassis upgrade questions..

[charlie6178]

so i have my car all apart right now, and i am trying to have the car back on the road by christmas. but i have never built a datsun, to be honest i have never built anything that wasn't a chevrolet. so i am new to this whole datsun thing. but i want the car to be as sound as it can be without throwing mega $$$ at it. so while the motor is being rebuilt i am going to go ahead and finish the suspension up, but i have some questions.

 

#1

 

okay, so i have a set of ground controll coil conversion deals, and i was just wondering; #1 whats the easyiest way to get the strut apart to weld on after i pull the spring and all that business off? #2 after i soda blast the whole thing, and weld the collar in place that the coil over sleve rest on, do i need to replace anything before re-assembling the strut?? seals?? fluid?? and finally any general things to watch out for when doing this??

 

#2

 

TC rods; has anybody used the Techno Toy Tuning TC rods? i have a spare set of stock TC's and i am plainning on making a set of adjustable ones, just copying the Techo Toys Tuning set, and i was just wondering if these were really going to make that much of a difference.

 

#3

 

sway bars; has anybody, or is anybody on here used or using the suspension techniques sway bar kit? they offer a kit that includes the 1" front & 3/4" rear sway bars, and all of the mounting hardware, and bushings for $310 which seems pretty reasonable to me. i have one of their kits on my 71 nova and i was very pleased with the quality of the products.

 

#4

 

chassis stiffening; does anybody on here know how much room there is for improvement on the structure of the body of these cars? i was thinking about making some sort of subframe connector setup like they use on camaro's and what not to tie all the the body together a lil tighter. i dont want to put a roll bar in it if i dont have to. i just want to do the thing right while i have it all apart.

[slodat]

There is a great thread on this subject at the 510 realm.

[thisismatt]

#1: I would get 280zx (or 200sx) struts and brakes, since they're better brakes and bigger spindles as well as about 1" shorter, and it's not worth dumping the money into stock 510 struts. You will want to replace the strut insert with something decent like the Tokico Illuminas. A roll center spacer (bump steer spacer) is a good idea. Weld the coilover collar perch low enough that the top of the collar is maybe 1/8" below the top of the strut tube so you can get your wrench/pliars on the strut insert nut without damaging the collar threads.

 

#2: Adjustable T/C rods with a heim joint add rigidity and eliminate deflection of the T/C rod joint. I like the kind I've seen with a clevis joint at the lower control arm so that the T/C rod can pivot there and not cause binding. When you shorten the T/C to pull the LCA forward you also need to lengthen the LCA to maintain the angle between T/C and LCA. You can think of the LCA, T/C rod, and the imaginary side between LCA pivot and T/C pivot as a triangle with a fixed angle where the T/C mounts to the LCA. Since the imaginary side has no adjustment, and the angle between the T/C and LCA cannot change, when you shorten the T/C you must lengthen the LCA otherwise the triangle can no longer be complete. With stock rubber bushings and enough slop in the T/C to LCA bolts, there can be some deflection whether it be that angle between T/C and LCA or some pulling/pushing at the joints, but once you change out everything to solid mounts and joints there isn't the same give. A clevis joint like some other people have made on the leg of the T/C at the LCA end would let this angle change freely during adjustment. It's a good idea to loosen up the T/C to LCA bolts during adjustment and check your range of motion rather than just cranking down on adjusters and calling it good. That's a nasty way to discover binding issues.

[charlie6178]

so you can buy just the iner parts for the struts?? and does baxters or schucks for instince have them??

[Icehouse]

When it comes to suspension every, every little thing helps, especially on these old dattos. IMO (28 years old and I finally realized its easier to add that than argue a whole bunch :D) The TC rods do wonders, I installed a set in my daily driver and could not believe the difference it made. Fast stops were no longer scary, ruts in the road played less of a role in where my car was going :D I give the the T3 TC rods an A+ for price and quality (so far), I do give them an F for mounting hardware, who in there right mind sells parts for a Japanese car with standard bolts??? Bastards!!!

 

 

Get zx struts to, a good cheap upgrade for any dime. the shorter strut is nice too :D

[thisismatt]

Umm, they can probably get you some crappy monroe ones or something.

[Icehouse]

Umm, they can probably get you some crappy monroe ones or something.

 

Spend the money!!! right Matt? If a 510 didn't corner what would be the point :D

[charlie6178]

alright, well looks ike i'm going to have to pick up some ZX struts after work today then. what year is prefered??

[slodat]

Any year 280ZX strut will do. There is a small difference in spindle angle but there is no conclusive info on which years they are on. Make sure you get 280ZX. ZX was made '79-'83. 280z is not the same thing and will not work.

[thisismatt]

Spend the money!!! right Matt? If a 510 didn't corner what would be the point :D

What does a crappy set cost, anyways? $80? $100? I think I got my illuminas for about $200 shipped, so yes I think it's worth it. Mine are really short SW20 MR2 front inserts (shorter than the rear AW10/AW11 MR2 ones that other people have used). Too bad my car is nowhere near operational to try them out :D

[thisismatt]

Any year 280ZX strut will do. There is a small difference in spindle angle but there is no conclusive info on which years they are on. Make sure you get 280ZX. ZX was made '79-'83. 280z is not the same thing and will not work.

You may also want to get the brake master cylinder if it's the two-reservoir over/under bolt pattern. You may or may not want the 280zx steering knuckles, but you might as well take them with you since you can potentially resell them on ebay or use them - they're shorter than 510 knuckles and some people use them for quicker steering, but the tie rod boss is also at a different angle and I've heard from one person that this can be destructive to the tie rod joint...not sure if that part is necessarily true or an isolated incident, though. I always try to take as much "accessory" parts when I pull something since they often don't charge extra, but if you have to go back later for a small part you know they're going to charge you for it.

[blueridgespeed]

#1 I agree with the above - 280zx struts are a good upgrade. While you drive around on the stock 510 struts, get the zx units done up right!

 

-Shorten them if you want the car lower than stock. Def get roll center adjusters. Tokico Illumina's are nice, but Tokico "blues" (HP) are pretty nice, just not adjustable, and much more affordable. Excellent upgrade for the price.

 

Nobody mentioned front camber, did they? If not, a TTT or Ground-Control type plate is nice if you've done the coilover conversion. If you do a rigid plate, it's best to do a bearing on the top- I tried it both ways and talk about a noticable difference!

 

Slotting the stock front shock towers works for camber if you're retaining the stock rubber top shock mount/bushing and it's bearing, but that is inconsistent with the general them of upgrading to rigid TTT t/c rods and coilover conversion, so I'm not sure you should do that.

 

#2 Listen to Icehouse. We all love our Datsuns. Many of us modify them. When we say "I was amazed what a difference it made" -that's good info! Get the TTT t/c rods if $175 fits your budget.

 

#3 I had ST sway bars on my 510. I was amazed what a difference it made. I would recommend them to anyone. I have a ST set on my 240z. Ditto the love. ST stuff is powdercoated lime green now, I think. You'll want to be sure you can live with that! They used to be gray.

 

#4 Chassis stiffening but no roll bar? Well, you've got a front strut tower bar - I've never been big on them but some people swear by them. I can't comment, but take advice from someone who's done the mod themselved, so they know the before and after. Again, pretty cheap, easy, and reversible. I've not seen subframe-type connectors used. If any part of your car is rust compromised, fix it first.

 

 

Don't forget rear suspension adjustability, especially if you're lowering!!!!!!

 

Slotting the rear crossmember works fine. There are some more elegant designs, like Byron's that you may want to look into.

 

I'd put money into:

1st, suspension adjustability. If you can't align it well, it won't handle well

2nd, (zx strut) and therefore brake upgrade - pretty important to stop once you start GOING faster

3rd, but needs to immediately follow 1 and 2. Lower it. You will become more cool and attractive to potential mates instantly. Coilovers and shortened struts with a suitable shorter damper inside (think early MR2 stuff!) is great fun. I'd skip "lowering springs" and do it right the first time, or wait until you can do it right. A proper coilover conversion is a bit of a project, but you won't regret it.

[charlie6178]

well i've been working on some stuff in the garage..... i should have some pics up by the end of the weekend!

[banzai510(hainz)]

hey Monroes are better than what i have felt in some datsuns!!!!!!

 

I wanna do this and that(turbo,KA/SR) and the shocks are BLOWN OUT!!!!!!!

WTF!!!!! shocks are cheap .

[gokiburix]

I have a 1.125"/28mm sway bar for the 510 for sale. I had it installed for about a month then took it off to do a swap, so I no longer need it. It really does improve the handling.

 

I posted this in the classified as well, but thought I should bring it to your attention.

 

 

$130 obo

[fiveNdime]

MY two cents,

 

Buy the T3 tension control rods, You risk braking a set of home made adjustable ones.......I have personally seen and heard of 2 complete sets. Besides the T3's look sweet

 

Buy a good sway bar. I had a suspension techniques on my dime and it worked great. I think it was 1 1/8" if memory serves.

 

Body stiffening eeeh, don't waist your time. Get some strut bars for the front and rear.

 

Plus I would toss a set of adjustable camber plates on otherwise you wont be able to adjust the suspension right.

 

I keep forgetting stuff, I hope your using 280zx struts, to get your better brakes.

 

T3 has the best products I have found as far as quality to price ratio. Plus I have had my parts on the track and they are flawless, my dads dime has too with the same parts.....and we both run our cars hard on the street.

Edited November 15, 2008 by fiveNdime

[Burabuda]

going against conventional wisdom, i'd keep the 510 struts and just cut off the caliper brackets and fab new ones to run z32 aluminum 4pots and 11" rotors

 

i've been hearing the bigger spindle argument for years, but big spindles don't impress me, and i don't like messing with track

 

i'm also not crazy about the caliper design or the fact you're limited in pad selection--plus nobody sells shims anymore .... i guess nobody's noticed?

 

kyb makes cheap inserts for mr2 rear. just cut some pipe to space the shorter insert

also, i'd use an industrial grade bracket as the perch so that i could experiment with rate and length before i did any welding

 

but i like to take the road less travelled by ...

[heirfaus]

Any year 280ZX strut will do. There is a small difference in spindle angle but there is no conclusive info on which years they are on. Make sure you get 280ZX. ZX was made '79-'83. 280z is not the same thing and will not work.

 

I thought this was checked and verified there was no difference in ZX strut angles?

[thisismatt]

I thought this was checked and verified there was no difference in ZX strut angles?

It's still up in the air. One guy on the bluebird list will swear up and down that he had two sets in his possession that were different and that the very first 280zx's had a different angle...

[zhent]

It's still up in the air. One guy on the bluebird list will swear up and down that he had two sets in his possession that were different and that the very first 280zx's had a different angle...

 

That's me.

 

a buddy of mine runs a ZX parts business, specializing in parting out crushed/non-functional 280zx and 300zx cars. He had a set from a '79 and a set from an '83 when I did my first dime. The '79 set put +1 degree of camber in, the '83 set came out exactly at 0 degrees on each side.

 

The part numbers for the early set were superseded by the later ones, so as far as Nissan is concerned they're the same part, but he even noticed it in re-building some 280zx cars. Using the later ones always comes out with 1 extra degree of negative camber at stock ride height. And when put on a 510, stock zx height lowers the front by 2".

 

But then again I've only built two of these, so someone else's experience may be greater. I haven't needed camber plates on either of my 510s, and they both ran the zx struts...

[71pl510]

What year mr2 inserts for 280zx struts are people using? Part#? I am going to be re assembling all this next week.

 

Thanks

[DISLEXICDIME]

You can find 4 way adjustable agx struts on amazon for cheep some times . If I remember right you need the rear struts from a sw20 mr2 . Correct me if I am wrong

[DISLEXICDIME]

How low you going charlie?

[71pl510]

Not sure how low yet I have a coilover kit installed but no rims yet this car was a non runner when I got it I will need to clear the average speed bump so short story long dont know.

[Nismoron]

That's me.

 

a buddy of mine runs a ZX parts business, specializing in parting out crushed/non-functional 280zx and 300zx cars. He had a set from a '79 and a set from an '83 when I did my first dime. The '79 set put +1 degree of camber in, the '83 set came out exactly at 0 degrees on each side.

 

The part numbers for the early set were superseded by the later ones, so as far as Nissan is concerned they're the same part, but he even noticed it in re-building some 280zx cars. Using the later ones always comes out with 1 extra degree of negative camber at stock ride height. And when put on a 510, stock zx height lowers the front by 2".

 

But then again I've only built two of these, so someone else's experience may be greater. I haven't needed camber plates on either of my 510s, and they both ran the zx struts...

 

 

So ZX strut will lower by 2" without mods?

Do you know the part #'s for the early and late struts/ i have aset that I took off a ZX, but dont know the year and the car has long since been crushed.

also, I recall somewhere that the ZX struts decrease the track by about 1" and the 200SX V6 struts increase track by 1"... true? Any info on the camber difference on the 200sx struts? I have a set of them as well.