Question on wheels and lowering based on this picture!

[Kytoaster]

Ok, I'm not going to lie. 

I had pretty much convinced myself to stay stock and enjoy  the truck....buuutt...this picture has kind of ruined that.

My questions are:

1) what wheels are these, because they look great!

2) Is this just blocks and cranking down the front, or notched frame, raised front shock towers?



Either enable me to dump the truck, or crush my dreams by letting me know it will require custom work :D

[Fat510]

The rims are 98-2000 frontier OEM rims

 

You can go that low by blocks and torsion crank. You may need drop spindles too

[flatcat19]

Bars cranked...or better, index them.

[datzenmike]

You might want to think about the ride quality also. You have to have a certain amount of downward suspension movement to absorb bumps. To prevent bottoming on the pavement the suspension movement must be reduced by increasing the spring stiffness. These two factors do not agree with each other. On extremely lowered vehicles you are sitting on the bump stops so there is almost no suspension movement and your tires become your suspension springs. Congrats, your truck is now a rubber ball and in fact, has ceased to be a truck and is just barely a vehicle at all..

 

Expect to bottom out the undersides possibly damaging the exhaust or oil pan/cross member, and at speed this can be catastrophic. At low speeds raised driveway entrances are always a scrape as are speed bumps and manhole covers. Front tires tear up fenders. Ride is kidney shaking. The term 'Let's bounce' makes more sense to you now.

 

This has happened from excessive lowering. Sure, just keep telling yourself you'll do a better job of driving...

 

 

 

The lower you go, the more you have to make excuses to yourself about the shitty ride, just so you can 'please' others that see you in a lowered 'truck'. I'm all for lowering, and all vehicles can be lowered varying amounts and at the same time improve the handling and ride as well as looks. At some point lowering quickly reverses any gains and and goes the other way. Form should always follow function.

[banzai510(hainz)]

3inch blocks in back and torsion screwed out till the threads are almost out then that's it. That's what I got for my daily driver 521 truck.  more wil have issues. I know it looks cool but 3inch is cool enough

 

 

those wheels ai think there is hub grinding issues. I think stock wheels painted white and tires with tin white walls looks better anyway

[Kytoaster]

You might want to think about the ride quality also. You have to have a certain amount of downward suspension movement to absorb bumps. To prevent bottoming on the pavement the suspension movement must be reduced by increasing the spring stiffness. These two factors do not agree with each other. On extremely lowered vehicles you are sitting on the bump stops so there is almost no suspension movement and your tires become your suspension springs. Congrats, your truck is now a rubber ball and in fact, has ceased to be a truck and is just barely a vehicle at all..

 

Expect to bottom out the undersides possibly damaging the exhaust or oil pan/cross member, and at speed this can be catastrophic. At low speeds raised driveway entrances are always a scrape as are speed bumps and manhole covers. Front tires tear up fenders. Ride is kidney shaking. The term 'Let's bounce' makes more sense to you now.

 

This has happened from excessive lowering. Sure, just keep telling yourself you'll do a better job of driving...

 

 

 

The lower you go, the more you have to make excuses to yourself about the shitty ride, just so you can 'please' others that see you in a lowered 'truck'. I'm all for lowering, and all vehicles can be lowered varying amounts and at the same time improve the handling and ride as well as looks. At some point lowering quickly reverses any gains and and goes the other way. Form should always follow function.

 

Well, I daily drive this with no issues (and have been for 5+ years), so I think I'll be ok :D

 

Also, I could care less that others think of my vehicles, I modify them because I want to change them into something that I will enjoy, and because I enjoy modifying cars.  

 

But I do agree to a point, functionality is more important than form. My xb has a functional tow hitch, and can carry 5 people. If I lowered it any more, It would be almost impossible to drive without issues.

 

Thanks for the tips everyone!

[Kytoaster]

One other question about lowering, will 3" blocks require shims? Or will I be ok with just blocks? 

I know 4" blocks definitely require shims, I just didn't know if a 3" drop would be enough to throw off the driveshaft angles and require shims. 

I figure it would be safer just to use shims anyway, but I got a set of 3" blocks for free and didn't know if I should wait to install them before ordering shims, or just ordering blocks with 2 degree tilts built into them.

[datzenmike]

Any lowering will throw the driveshaft angle off. Yes, it probably will, enough to hear and feel a rumbling. All vehicles are different. Measure the two angles and test fit shims to correct it. If someone suggests a 1 degree or 2 degree shim just keep in mind it's a general guess as to what will work on yours.  Do it yourself and get it right.

[Kytoaster]

Any lowering will throw the driveshaft angle off. Yes, it probably will, enough to hear and feel a rumbling. All vehicles are different. Measure the two angles and test fit shims to correct it. If someone suggests a 1 degree or 2 degree shim just keep in mind it's a general guess as to what will work on yours.  Do it yourself and get it right.

 

Well, I figured someone on here had lowered a 620 3" in the rear, so they might know what degree would be needed.

 

I may hold off until I hear from someone who had done it so I can be sure to get the correct blocks with the built in tilt, since it sounds like it will definitely be necessary to have shims/tilt built into the blocks.

 

[Lockleaf]

Yes, it will require some angle. 2 to 3 degrees usually. But like Mike said, that's generic.

[Jersey]

Well, I figured someone on here had lowered a 620 3" in the rear, so they might know what degree would be needed.

I may hold off until I hear from someone who had done it so I can be sure to get the correct blocks with the built in tilt, since it sounds like it will definitely be necessary to have shims/tilt built into the blocks.

 

I'm running 3" blocks with no taper and 2 leaf springs (main & overload), my rims are 14x7 with 185/60/14 tires. I've replaced the CB only once along with the u joints. I have been running it like this for 12 years with no issues...However, Mike is right: it's not the best ride! And driveways and speed bumps are a bitch! I like the look of being lowered. However, as I am now older...it's apparent to me that the ride quality is: unacceptable! That's why I am going tri-angulated 4 link and bags on front and rear in the next couple of months. I remember how Great my Toyota rode and I am very much looking forward to that ride quality on my Datsun!

[datzenmike]

Yes, it will require some angle. 2 to 3 degrees usually. But like Mike said, that's generic.

 

Close enough? If your DNA was only 1% out you'd be a chimpanzee. Measure for yourself.

 

Angle in equals angle out. Angle at front U joint must equal angle at rear U joint.

 

Assuming the front driveshaft is in line with the transmission center line then we really only have a single driveshaft to worry about, the rear one.

Assuming vehicle is on it's wheels, level and at proper ride height. You could even go so far as to have someone sit in the driver's seat.

 

 Front driveshaft angle...

 

... must equal differential angle.

 

 

 

I lowered my 710 and there was a low frequency rumble like earthquake in surround sound. Thought it was just a combination of bad tires and balance. I had also installed a longer 5 speed so the driveshaft was shorter and the angle would automatically steepened to the differential. I used a compass and a string with a washer and yes it was noticeably OUT. Turned out a 1/8" spacer placed on the rear of the drop block would tilt the differential front down are restore angularity. The difference was shocking. I should say the stuff you can put up with is amazing. Once gone you could hear things again when driving.

[Lockleaf]

Yeah mike, cuz DNA is a super valid comparison for safe variance in percentages.

[datzenmike]

lutz nothing wrong with some precision. The difference between 1% and 2% is 100% .... think about it.

[distributorguy]

Driveshaft angle makes NO difference.  Its the comparison between the transmission's output shaft angle and the differential angle that matter.  When you throw a carrier bearing between them, yet another factor is added.  Generally speaking, the differential's yolk  should be turned down 2-3 degrees lower than the angle of the transmission output shaft.  You CANNOT measure the output shaft by measuring the driveshaft, as the front u-joint will change the angle.  If you get it wrong, you'll have a chatter on accel or more likely decel.  Essentially the angles need to match when under normal load conditions (when the pinion lifts).  The more power you make (V8 conversion?), the bigger the difference in angles needs to be, but not by much.

[Lockleaf]

Why and how does power output affect required driveshaft angle?

[distributorguy]

You're looking for the pinion angle, which lifts under load.  You need to find the "happy medium" between unloaded and fully loaded (hence a typical 3 degree separation).  The more power you make, the more spring wrap you get, by a couple degrees in some cases, several degrees in others.  The goal is to set it up at "0" under normal load conditions so it won't vibrate while accelerating or decelerating.  If under acceleration it shifts 6 degrees, you want it set up at 3 degrees.  If you have a boatload of power and it wraps 10 degrees, you probably want to chose a 5 degree separation when static.  Or use stiffer springs.  Or traction bars.  Or...

[datzenmike]

Driveshaft angle makes NO difference.  Its the comparison between the transmission's output shaft angle and the differential angle that matter.  When you throw a carrier bearing between them, yet another factor is added.  Generally speaking, the differential's yolk  should be turned down 2-3 degrees lower than the angle of the transmission output shaft.  You CANNOT measure the output shaft by measuring the driveshaft, as the front u-joint will change the angle.  If you get it wrong, you'll have a chatter on accel or more likely decel.  Essentially the angles need to match when under normal load conditions (when the pinion lifts).  The more power you make (V8 conversion?), the bigger the difference in angles needs to be, but not by much.

 

I think we are on the same page here. The trans output center line and the differential pinion center line angles will be the same if the two angles at the two U joints are the same. I had the driveshaft out and set the compass against the output spline and the flange on the pinion. Shimmed the leaf springs until they both angles equaled or so close I couldn't see the difference. The pinion may tilt upward very slightly and the body squats as well which will throw the angle off but there is no chatter and no groan or vibration at all.

[distributorguy]

Gotcha.  I just didn't want others to think the driveshaft was the right place to measure angle, as driveshaft angle doesn't make any difference, until the u-joint angles get extreme (think 10" lift).  I think you can honestly lower 3" with minimal effect, as long as the leaf springs aren't toast.  Around these parts, springs are usually rusted out, and they twist, leaving the angles really messed up.  You bastards on the left coast don't know how great you have it!!!  :devil:  :fu:  :D

 

Loading the bed won't change pinion angle, only the application of power, which will lift the pinion by counter-rotating the axle housing (opposite direction of axle spin.)   Those cheap magnetic angle finders are great for measuring this stuff.  Accurate to 1 degree if you have the patience to wait for the needle to stop bouncing.  A protractor and a small level work too, in a pinch.  Figure the weakest of all engines will still lift the pinion 2-3 degrees under load, and there are plenty of RWD imports that have less power than an L16!

[Kytoaster]

Yeah, currently have light chatter on decel. Definitely grabbing a cheap angle finder so I can make sure to get the proper shims, thanks guys!