KA24DE in A10. Accelerates so terribly slow... Read this, KA guys.......

[mhub91]

1979 Datsun HLA10 (510, 2nd generation)

 

Originally L20b, 4 speed. 

 

I've spent the last 8 months swapping in a Ka24de from a 92 240SX (OBD-1). The past week I have finally got my driveline and a few parts fabbed up so it is now driveable! (Yay!)

 

I took it out for a spin.... and almost wanted to burn that mother fucker to the ground. IT WAS GUTTTTLESSSSSS. The old, tired, leaky, smoking L20b would have smokes it! For pete's sake my '98 Mitsubishi Mirage 1.5L FWD is faster!!!! 

 

Anyway, enough complaining...  :blush:

 

So, I check the codes on the ECU and i got codes 13, 14, and 34. Which are Engine Coolant temp sensor circuit fault, Vehicle speed sensor circuit fault, and knock sensor circuit fault, respectively. No big deal. New temp sensor and knock sensor installed. verified working, codes are now gone, except code 14, VSS -- which is only a code set by loss of communication with the speedometer in the 240sx (digital... ran through ecu.)

 

Took it out for a test drive and came back home, codes were gone ... but god dammit, it is still so slow. no improvement on throttle response or acceleration....

 

Called a friend to get his input and he asked if my intake is "too short" I was running about 11-13" of intake pipe because i had to re-route it due to the smaller engine bay. He told me this could effect the MAF due to too much turbulance from the intake being so close so IACV, and throttle body. 

 

Now, after that lloooooonnnggg story  :yawn: ...... I've thrown on about 18" of 2.5" ID conduit tubing (PVC pipe, lol) and it seems to 'some-what' improve this condition. 

 

To recap....

Cleaned maf

fixed all code causing faults,

lengthened intake tube...

 

no results. NOW, I don't have an air filter on it at the moment... Could this also be causing this crappy drivability issue?

 

thanks in advance...

[Farmer Joe]

dont know if it will help, but what the hell... ill bounce this off ya... maybe we'll get an idea of whats going on.. 

 

we did a DE swap into a 210, and had an issue with no power... 

 

isolated it to a dead injector on #2.

 

pull each plug wire and see if it makes it any worse than the one before. also, pull the injector plugs while its running to see if any dont effect the idle. 

 

not sure what else other than timing maybe.. 

 

all the best....

[mhub91]

Thanks for throwing ideas at me, but if there was a dead injector would there not be a code thrown?

 

I have now.........

 

Drained old gas and replaced with high octane

Lengthened intake to factory length

Put on a cone filter

New knock sensor

New coolant temp sensor

 

No codes present

 

There are 2 things that might be the issue....

 

After market fuel pump putting out in sufficient pressure

 

OR

 

Maybe in some miraculous way I have incredibly high gearing with out realizing it, cause poor acceleration, but top end.... The reason this 'might' be plausible is the fact that the 510 had a 4 speed in it originally, the high gearing in the rear end may have been to accommodate for the lack of over drive, or 5th gear. ....... But this is all speculation.

[q-tip]

What rpm are you running at highway speed?

[dr.feltersnatch]

Easy enough to pull one plug wire at a time to see if you have a lacking cyl. If nothing else it rules some stuff out.

[bananahamuck]

Maybe in some miraculous way I have incredibly high gearing with out realizing it, cause poor acceleration, but top end.... The reason this 'might' be plausible is the fact that the 510 had a 4 speed in it originally, the high gearing in the rear end may have been to accommodate for the lack of over drive, or 5th gear. ....... But this is all speculation.

 

 

Except the torque of the larger dispacement engine would totally rule out high gearing as problem.

[ggzilla]

Thanks for throwing ideas at me, but if there was a dead injector would there not be a code thrown?

NO it wouldnt and stop trying to outthink the computer. This is usually a non-ECU problem which which requires old-fashioned troubleshooting skilss.

 

I would try exactly what the Farmer and the Dr prescribed.

[mhub91]

Going to perform a fuel pressure test today. Pulled up the 'correct' procedure from the computer here at work and I see that Nissan originally has their fuel system like this....

Fuel Tank -> Fuel Pump (inside the tank) -> Fuel Filter -> Fuel Rail

 

I have my set up like this (due to converting a carbureted chassis to EFI.....)

 

Fuel Tank -> Inline Filter -> Inline Pump -> Fuel Rail

 

I ran it this way because to me, it's logical to filter the fuel before entering the pump... But could this cause an issue? Common sense tells me no, but ......

[datzenmike]

Except the torque of the larger dispacement engine would totally rule out high gearing as problem.

 

And the 210 is way lighter than an S14 or D21 truck. It should out accelerate sound.

 

The A10 had 3.545 I believe.

[q-tip]

I have the same fuel system up in my ka powered 510, that should cause you no issue unless you have a fuel filter that won't allow the correct amount of flow

[mhub91]

mother of god.......

 

3.45?!??!!

 

.....That make sense, due to the fact it was a 4 speed, there for the higher gears would accommodate for the lack of overdrive aka 5th gear.

[mhub91]

thanks Q-tip.

 

I got the filter from o'reilly's. I bought one for a "1992 240sx" .. but who knows those guys are clowns!

 

Thanks again everyone for helping me out on this project. took me 9 months but I made it happen!

 

Q-tip, did you have to change out any fuel lines other than the rubber ones under the hood? what I mean specifically... did you have to replace the metal delivery and return lines that run under the car as well?

 

 

...After all, these are all just speculations until I go check fuel pressure tonight after work. Just trying to pick some brains..

 

 

 

 

Mmmmm ... Brains

[q-tip]

I replaced them for the sake of replacing them, stock should be sufficient.

 

What components did you remove from the motor?

[mhub91]

mods....

 

Walbro 255 inline / external

oreilly's fuel filter

new rubber fuel lines (underhood)

EGR removal, used block off plate and gasket. ( pipe from ex. mani hit firewall,had to remove....)

 - plugged EGR related vacuum lines

Charcoal canister was removed (missing from swap, missing from L20 motor too.)

intake setup

The fuel pump is ran with a constant 12V on a switch instead of controlled by the computer.

 

these are the only mods done to the engine. I test drove this engine while it was in the 240 and it went like a bat outta hell! It was definitely not slow!!

 

thanks again

[]2eDeYe]

Going to perform a fuel pressure test today. Pulled up the 'correct' procedure from the computer here at work and I see that Nissan originally has their fuel system like this....

 

Fuel Tank -> Fuel Pump (inside the tank) -> Fuel Filter -> Fuel Rail

 

I have my set up like this (due to converting a carbureted chassis to EFI.....)

 

Fuel Tank -> Inline Filter -> Inline Pump -> Fuel Rail

 

I ran it this way because to me, it's logical to filter the fuel before entering the pump... But could this cause an issue? Common sense tells me no, but ......

 

 

This is not the problem unless your filter is clogged.

 

Simple troubleshooting will find your problem.

 

Air

Fuel

Fire

 

Do as was suggested by Farmer and the Dr.

 

 

P.S. My KA with 3:54 drives real nice.

[q-tip]

^^^and that

[mhub91]

Thanks, Redeye

 

Like I said above, right now I'm just picking brains until I get off work to go test some things.

[Farmer Joe]

yeah id have to concur the gearing isnt going to bother the KA. 

 

this has to be an engine issue, either that or some horrible drag on the chassis somewhere thats slowin ya down... 

 

 

let me ask you this, does it have an exhaust note like a subaru? the skippy brap? or is it smooth like an L-series?

[q-tip]

Timing maybe? Bad maf?

[ggzilla]

Bad engine ? Worn rings? Stuck brakes?

[MicroMachinery]

If the top end is ok but the acceleration from a stop suffers, I'd be looking at timing. Retarded timing will do OK at higher speeds, but will suck off the line.

[mhub91]

I forgot I'm going to North Idaho for the weekend or I'd diag it but... starting my 6 hr road trip from Tacoma.. So..

[mhub91]

If the top end is ok but the acceleration from a stop suffers, I'd be looking at timing. Retarded timing will do OK at higher speeds, but will suck off the line.

It does, in fact, feel like timing... Which would be weird, because I never messed with the timing.... We'll see though! It's no big concern... I'm just busy this weekend or I would take care of it!

 

Thank again for everyone's input!

[mhub91]

ugh.... rookie mistake  :blush:

 

I had two spark plug wires reversed..... fixed it and oh my god it's so fast!!!

 

 

Thanks for the help everyone. Case closed.

[bananahamuck]

So it wasn't a banana in the tail pipe?