Wires start to smoke...

[jastrunk97]

If I crank the engine to long the black wire coming out of the altanater with to smoke

 

Here is a picture of the wire.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

where does the wire go to?

the case of the alternator I would think. but I cant see the whole alternator in the photo.

 

I would try cleaning the -side batter cable and check it to ground. make sure its tight. Tighten clean both battry cables.

 

I think its trying to find a better ground. but if the starter cranks over fine I think it would be good.

 

soon as it starts running ck thw voltage across the battery

[datsunaholic]

That's a sign telling you that your engine to chassis to battery ground isn't working. Corrosion or plain not hooked up. But it also looks like the alternator's ground isn't hooked up... there's a post, marked "E", with no screw or wire quite obvious in the photo.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Dataholic

I think there are 2 of those E grounds.

Thats why I needed a ful photo.

Otherwise mine are all the same as what he has and I have no proplems.

But my cables are fairly new.

[jastrunk97]

 

 

 

 

 

This is the back of it. I will go check my grounds and see if it helps.

And the engine doesn't turn over! The starter just clicks

[datsunaholic]

Yeah, some of them have more than one, and the 2nd photo shows it's hooked to the case. Good enough, but that's probably the ONLY ground from the battery right now. Which is way too small to take the load of the starter.

[Draker]

He didn't a picture of the whole back of the alternator because he was trying to hide the Fram. :rofl:

[banzai510(hainz)]

Looks fine

clean repqalce and make sure the cables are tight at both ends.

[DanielC]

There should be a heavy cable (wire) at least the size of your little finger from the negative battery post to the cylinder head.

This is a picture of me doing a compression test on a L-16. Notice the cable from the negative battery post, to a bolt, with a lifting ring, just behind the fuel pump.

[68Datsun510]

He didn't a picture of the whole back of the alternator because he was trying to hide the Fram. :rofl:

 

I was gonna say, the issue at hand is the FRAM filter :P

[Laecaon]

Definitely need the big ground to the head. Basically when starting the starter is using too much power for the black wire to handle, thus cooking it. In turn the wire is limiting the power available to the starter.

[jastrunk97]

so i tightened up everything and now i dont even have a click when i turn the key, i can jump the posts and i get a click and thats all

[banzai510(hainz)]

you ssure the battery cable lead ends are not cracked???????

 

starter selinoid wire tab snug??????

 

did you clean it and ck for voltages.

 

what I do is put a meter right on batt post(red lead) then other end on the batt cable(blk end). put key to ON an d see if they is like 2volt drop. then its a bad connection .corrission or cable end is bad do this on both cables.

 

 

is battery charged up.

[jastrunk97]

im getting a click now. So when i put the multi meter on there and had my bro turn the key i got a 3 volt drop so im going to go double check everything and look for corrosion, etc

[jastrunk97]

so i just checked everything and everything feels tight and snug but i still got nothing...

[datsunaholic]

CLEAN the connections at both ends, don't just check if they're tight. There could be corrosion in between. And I'm talking about the ground lead too. The one on the engine. You have to remove it to clean it.

[jastrunk97]

i cleaned and made sure everything from the bat to the starter was tight and cleaned and sanded the bat terms and the neg on the head

[Laecaon]

I needed new battery cables on my car. I opened my cables to see the condition of the ends, and the wire and gotten old and brittle inside. Actually all I did was chop off the ends until the wire was bright copper colored again, put new ends on, and bam starter worked again. So if everything is clean, and you are still getting a click click, and you have an actual large ground wire to the engine, I would investigate your cables.

[jastrunk97]

Okay thanks! i will do that!

[banzai510(hainz)]

if there is a voltage drop right from battery post to the cable right next to it theres soemthing wrong already.

 

make sure battery is charged up as if cables bad to battery wasnt charging and your were running more off the alternator.

 

Datsun guys are cheap.

load ck the battery

get soem new bat cables.

ck the alternator and get a voltage readingTruck running and then voltage reading with the lights On. hopefull its above 13volts and better 14 volts or say 13.8 volts with everything off.

[Boaty]

I'mma chime in here because I'm anal, and because of it - I don't have these sorts of problems. So here goes.

 

First and foremost, path of least resistance. You can have all the nice shiny positive cable you want - and if you don't have a suitable ground, it's all in vain.

 

I prefer welding cable for battery cables, because they are flexible, heat, and chemical resistant. Ends should be copper terminals (5/16") crimped (not soldered) with heat-shrink.

Ideally, you want an equal size ground for whatever you are running for the hot side. I personally run 1ga cable for the starter, and engine ground. I run a 6ga ground cable from battery to chassis (strut tower). All ends should be cleaned, and remember paint doesn't conduct well, so you'll want to clean up a spot for a good connection wherever you put it. You should have a good engine ground, and a good chassis ground. The reason the wire fried on the back of the alternator, was because of a faulty ground.

 

So your checklist should be as follows (once again keep in mind I am anal).

1.) Check your battery, and replace as necessary. Take it in and have it tested if need-be. If the case is damaged, swollen, then replace it. Cheap insurance for the future. Bad batteries cause more problems later on down the road than it's worth. Also make sure the terminals are cleaned. Use a wire brush and/or a terminal cup-brush.

 

2.) Check your battery cables & terminals. If the cables are stiff, the insulation is cracked/worn, the terminals are corroded, then replace them. Your general cables from Autozone will work in a pinch, but being honest - they are cheap for a reason. You get what you pay for. Shiny doesn't mean good. They are generally small, stiff, and a pain in the ass to handle. See above - go to a battery shop and have them make you up new cables. 5/16" is the stud size on your starter solenoid, btw. I think that most marine-styled battery terminals are 5/16" studs as well, but most military-style terminals use 3/8" bolts/nuts. You'll have to have them terminated for whatever battery terminal you'll be using.

 

3.) Clean your solenoid terminals. There are three terminals on a solenoid. Battery in, Power out, and switched power from your ignition switch. If you want, you can install a relay so you get a full +12V to the solenoid from the ignition switch, and simply trigger the relay with the ignition switch. I'd do this anyways. All connections should be clean either way - and make sure the terminal from the ignition switch is in good shape as well. The other terminal from the solenoid going into the starter carries the same load as the battery cable, make sure this connection is clean as well. It's usually braided with nylon sheathing, but is usually in good shape since it doesn't move.

 

4.) Grounds. You can use a ground strap if you wish, I once again like to use black welding cable since it's flexible. Most of the time the ground will go directly from battery to right behind the fuel pump on an L-motor, where the engine slinger is usually installed (if you have them). This connection needs to be clean as well - this is your engine ground. If it's in bad shape it can cause all sorts of issues that are difficult to diagnose. Alternatively, you can install this ground to one of the starter bolts if you'd like. I've seen either/or, and I doubt it makes much of a difference. But most people install it on the head, already pictured above. Once again, make sure everything is clean and tight.

 

5.) Chassis Grounds are important, too! Without one, you're relying on whatever connection there is between engine and chassis, which by itself isn't good. The wire that fried on your alternator, is one of the chassis grounds. You'll likely want to replace that wire, and re-terminate. With a good engine ground (#4) you don't realllly need to have that wire hooked up to your alternator. The case will be grounded by the alternator mount and it's just for redundancy, which is good. You'll want to run a good chassis ground, and as I mentioned up top - I prefer to use a 6ga wire from the battery to a clean strut tower bolt (clean the paint off, and use a washer (or star-lock washer). This eliminates the grounds for the rest of the car (stereo, if applicable - all your lighting and illumination - including your headlights if not using an H4 conversion harness/relay upgrade) having to go through the itty bitty wires used in the stock harness. By default you probably already have a ground somewhere, but it's better to be safe than sorry. More than likely, you'll notice a light output increase after doing this - I did, which is why it's one of the first things I do when it comes to this electron stuff. =)

 

At any rate, as long as you have good power, and good grounds, then everything will be nice and happy and functioning properly. While you're in there and working on stuff, it'd be a good idea to run an additional ground wire (can use 14/16ga for this) for the distributor as well. The dizzy itself is only held in by a plate, and two bolts going through the distributor base pedastal which has a gasket. You may or may not see improvement by doing this, but logic dictates that gaskets aren't the best conductors. Just run a wire from pedastal bolt to the case of the distributor. I had to do this to get rid of a weird miss when I did my electronic dizzy swap years ago.

 

Not sure exactly what you're working on, but on a 510 fuse box (69 and up) if you take it off and look underneath, you'll see where the factory main-power wire goes into the fuse box. There is also a screw that screws into the main power buss, where an additional +12V constant may be hooked up. After 40 years, the factory wire may be damaged or corroded, and adding another power source to the fuse box may improve things. If you do this, you should be able to eliminate the factory main power wire going to the starter terminal & the charge wire to the alternator (Memory serves, large white wire and large white/red stripe... YMMV). You will have to add a wire from the alternator to your battery if you do this. I use a 6ga cable for this purpose.

 

Now you have a fresh +12V connection fo the entire fuse box, as well as a fresh charge wire from alternator to battery, and you should have more than sufficient grounds.

 

Don't get me wrong, if it's not broken don't fix it always applies at some point. However, whenever anybody says "don't fix it if it's not broken", I do it anyways - to make it BETTER. Remember, 40 year old stuff! At any rate, make sure everything is up to snuff, clean, not damaged, and not broken. Fix anything that appares worn or eroded, and enjoy a much happier Datsun.

 

==EDIT==

I forgot a fairly important piece for the alternator charge wire. While it's not 110% necessary if you're always super careful, as in - I never had a problem, but I can definitely see it BEING a problem - you should have the charge wire fused going to the battery, and the main power wire going to the fuse box if you add one - should also be fused, even though it's going to a fuse box full of fuses. For the main charge wire, I would use at least a 75A fuse. If you use welding cable, you're probably not going to find a fusible link (I hate them, personally) that'll be suitable - so you'll be using a large format fuse. There are Maxi fuses, Mega Fuses, and ANL fuses. Maxi fuses are large format fuses that look the same as ATC fuses (Blade style) but for higher amperages. Mega fuses and ANL fuses are usually very-high amp fuses.

 

This is the company I use for all of this stuff, except the battery cables - which I have made up locally at a battery shop. Prices are great, shipping is fast, and they have all sorts of nice bits and pieces to make almost any electronics install a breeze. They sell awesome fuse holders for both Mega and ANL fuses, and I am using a Mega fuse/holder on my 510 for the main power/charge lead from the trunk running up front.

 

https://www.vtewarehouse.com/index.php

 

 

https://www.vtewarehouse.com/index.php

[Boaty]

And holy moly, that post ended up a lot longer than I intended it to. Do read it, tho.

[jastrunk97]

So i get it working again (not sure what i did but i was messing around with random things)....and then it stop working again and just clicks. The batter IS good and was being powered by an external source as well..so idk..i Will fiddle with it somemore tomorrow if i have time with school, Youth group, tech, etc

[Boaty]

Have somebody hold the key in the START position after it clicks, and while they are doing that - tap the solenoid with the handle of a screw driver (the bigger the better) or a ball peen hammer. Don't have to kill it, just try to give it a few taps. If it suddenly starts after tapping it, you might consider it being a bad solenoid. Check to make sure you're getting good voltage to the starter solenoid wire, it should be around 12V.

 

Lots of people install a relay so the load bypasses the rest of the harness and it sees a straight 12V from the battery via the relay. If you know how to install and wire a relay, should be straight forward. If not there are kits with instructions out there labeled as "Starter Helper Kits". Same thing but comes with illustrations and instructions and everything you need in one bag. This doesn't guarentee success though. As I mentioned prior, it's possible it's just a bad solenoid (click click click vroom). I've gone through some myself, starters too.

[jastrunk97]

Thanks! that did the trick! just hit it with a board a few times and it works...so il find a new solenoid and install that...but on a side note me presure grinds O_o