Wagon Rear Sway Bar

[Shagy]

Would this work? I have not been able to find the ones I used to see.

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/ST+Suspensions/876/51090/10002/-1

[Silky_Johnson]

I believe the only rear sway bar for a goon is made by Addco, Part No. 991. If you do a Google search for Addco 991, I believe you'll find Summit and Jegs selling them. Also, someone sells them on Ebay for around $180 shipped or best offer.

[erichwaslike]

that addco looks like a pretty decent setup.

[Silky_Johnson]

Most of the pictures don't look right to me. They might just be close/generic photos? But 991 is definitely Addco's part number for our goons.

 

I want to get one, but I think I need to wait for the wife to give it to me for Christmas...

[Shagy]

I'd like to see some install photos. I'm not turning anything up online.

 

are they specific to the wagons?

[Silky_Johnson]

Install photos are going to be hard to find. I'm not really coming up with anything either. But the sway bars are specific to '68 - '73 510 wagons and it looks like they fit 411s too? http://02bbfb5.netsolhost.com/Datsun-Ford_AntiSwaybars.htm#Datsunz

[datzenmike]

Would this work? I have not been able to find the ones I used to see.

 

http://www.jegs.com/.../51090/10002/-1

 

Says right on it:

 

ST Suspensions #876-51090

 

Rear Sway Bar

• 1968-73 Nissan 510 Sedan
  
• Rear Diameter: 3/4''
  

[Shagy]

I understand that Mike, but thats all I could find. I could not remember if there was a wagon specific one.

[Silky_Johnson]

***Paging Goon Squad members for money shots of your rear***

 

If you've got the Addco rear sway bar.

[Shagy]

shit..if you ANY rear bar readily available.

[datzenmike]

You do realize that stock suspensions are designed with slight understeer bias, and that adding any or increasing the size/stiffness of an existing rear sway bar will only increase understeer and quite likely induce straight ahead plowing into corners in an otherwise neutral handling car. In other words the rear will go around a corner but the front won't.

 

A rear sway bar is usually used to correct of compensate for an overly stiff front sway bar which has increased understeer.

[I'm BLUE]

You do realize that stock suspensions are designed with slight understeer bias, and that adding any or increasing the size/stiffness of an existing rear sway bar will only increase understeer and quite likely induce straight ahead plowing into corners in an otherwise neutral handling car. In other words the rear will go around a corner but the front won't.

 

A rear sway bar is usually used to correct of compensate for an overly stiff front sway bar which has increased understeer.

 

If said sway bar was installed ... Are you saying it will *likely* kick out laterally?

 

Thanks!

[Laecaon]

I want a rear sway bar because the back end has too much body roll. Then a bigger front to compensate.

 

Um, Driven has installed a 510 front bar on the back of his wagon. Forget where he posted his pictures, maybe in his build thread, or maybe in the other wagon rear sway bar thread in the 510 section.

[datzenmike]

There are probably a dozen factors that affect under and over steer but very generally, an added or stiffer rear sway bar adds oversteer. A stiffer front sway bar reduces oversteer.

 

Car makers design a slight understeer into their cars. It's felt that to the average driver who suddenly finds himself in trouble in a corner that slight understeer is the easiest to recover from. The natural tendency is to let off the gas and maybe hit the brakes, either of which forces the front down increasing traction to the front tires and reducing understeer. Oversteer on the other hand requires driving skills that most people simply don't have. Just imagine being on a very hard left hand corner with a cliff on the right side just feet away and your car goes into oversteer. It's very hard to steer to the right in an attempt to recover control.

 

 

 

I want a rear sway bar because the back end has too much body roll. Then a bigger front to compensate.

 

Absolutely yes! Sway bars will reduce body roll, there's nothing better for this. Blindly increasing the sway bar or bars can make the handling worse though. A stiffer front bar will increase front wheel traction and it will turn a corner better than the rear wheels which break loose first. If your car has oversteer you can change other things that increase rear wheel traction.... a stiffer rear bar is just one way. It's all a matter of balance. Take your car to an empty parking lot and turn around a tight circle. Go as fast as you can but not full throttle as this could induce throttle oversteer where the motor is the cause of lost traction. Go faster until either the back end starts to slide out (oversteer) or the front wheels plough ahead and do not turn where you point them. (understeer) As mentioned a slight understeer is best.

[Laecaon]

I know on my wagon, I have lots of understeer, but that could be the fault of the tires, none match, and I have summer tires on the rear only.

[Silky_Johnson]

The link that I posted above shows pairing the 5/8" rear bar with a stiffer 1" front bar. I do agree that it probably isn't wise to put a rear bar on an otherwise stock setup.

[Shagy]

Thank you Mike. Right now I'm just looking around. The planned suspension is coil overs (unsure what # rate yet) for the front. I'd like to put a Exploer 8.8 in the rear with a 4 link.

 

Right now the car is BONE stock.

 

I'm window shopping and this question came up.

[erikcarter]

i had a rear bar off a 521 and had to make all the brackets. I will post picks later.

[I'm BLUE]

There are probably a dozen factors that affect under and over steer but very generally, an added or stiffer rear sway bar adds oversteer. A stiffer front sway bar reduces oversteer.

 

Car makers design a slight understeer into their cars. It's felt that to the average driver who suddenly finds himself in trouble in a corner that slight understeer is the easiest to recover from. The natural tendency is to let off the gas and maybe hit the brakes, either of which forces the front down increasing traction to the front tires and reducing understeer. Oversteer on the other hand requires driving skills that most people simply don't have. Just imagine being on a very hard left hand corner with a cliff on the right side just feet away and your car goes into oversteer. It's very hard to steer to the right in an attempt to recover control.

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely yes! Sway bars will reduce body roll, there's nothing better for this. Blindly increasing the sway bar or bars can make the handling worse though. A stiffer front bar will increase front wheel traction and it will turn a corner better than the rear wheels which break loose first. If your car has oversteer you can change other things that increase rear wheel traction.... a stiffer rear bar is just one way. It's all a matter of balance. Take your car to an empty parking lot and turn around a tight circle. Go as fast as you can but not full throttle as this could induce throttle oversteer where the motor is the cause of lost traction. Go faster until either the back end starts to slide out (oversteer) or the front wheels plough ahead and do not turn where you point them. (understeer) As mentioned a slight understeer is best.

 

Thanks mike! Of course :) I was thinking in "absolutes" for some reason when I posted that haha der derrrr on me.

[LaidoutRivi63]

I have a rear sway bar installed on my 71 goon. Give me a day and I'll snap a photo of it

[DRIVEN]

Sorry I'm late to the party. I used 3 stock bars on my car. Here's a paste-in from my build thread:

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

I stole an idea from a Volvo forum...stacked sway bars. I came up with a total of 3 stock sway bars. One was on the car, one from a B210 I parted out years ago, and one from Redbanner. The 510 and B210 bars are almost identical. Maybe they are actually the same part but I found the 510 bar was just slightly wider -- maybe 1/4". It goes something like this. Started with this pile of parts:

Painted the sway bars. I had to make one of the U shaped brackets too, (2) 1/8" rectangle shaped plates. (4) 2.5" bolts, (4) 1.25" tube sleeves, stock end links + 2 extra bushings to go between the bar ends.

The next few pics are pretty self explanatory:

After I got it on the ground and drove it around the driveway a bit I discovered that the lower bar would contact the TC rod on hard bumps. I ground the offending area a little (probably 1/8") and all is well. If my car wasn't lowered it may not have been an issue.

I also experimented with my stash of random sway bars to see what I could make work of the back. Guess what? A stock 510 front bar fits pretty well.

The center mounts were just 2 1/2" exhaust clamps and some 1/4" plate.

The end link mounts were some 2" angle iron with a gusset welded on the back side. (The rearend is at full droop in the photo. At ride height it is pretty much level.)

There is no less than 1/4" clearance at any point. My car has 2" lowering blocks on the rear. I don't know if this would work with a 1" block and I doubt it would have room at all with stock rear suspension. I haven't had a chance to punish it through any good twisties yet but just driving around town it feels dramatically better. In theory this should be a pretty good balance. The same amount of torsional resistance was added to each end of the car.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Now after a month and a half of driving it I can tell you that it's pretty well balanced. It still has a slight bit of understeer, like with a single stock front bar only, but if I get on-throttle I can kick it around if I want to. Like I mentioned above, the stock front bar fits well on the rear with 2" blocks. Might fit with a 1" but probably won't fit with no blocks. You'll have to see for yourself if it will or won't work. I'm pretty happy with the overall end results -- especially for the price. If there is any complaint it's that there are more interior rattles now that the suspension is tightened up. Part of that may be due to going from 65 series to 50 series tires at the same time.

[Stupid_fast]

I'm curious how the rear wagon bar fits on. I've never seen a proper picture of one mounted on a goon !

 

What kind of modification is required to bolt it to the frame rail ?

[DRIVEN]

If you're asking about the Addco bar, I'd like to see this too.

[RedBanner]

driven, i vote you make a howto thread....... lol

[DRIVEN]

If I any more people think I should I will write something up. I'd need to probably rack it up and take some better pics and take a couple measurements.