Z22S engine build

[Dirttrack510]

I've been going through some of my parts and had forgot that I have a brand new set of Z22S .040 pistons and rings. Sooooo... I was thinking about building a 40 over Z22S engine and use one of my L series heads and boring out an old L20B block I have. Then I started looking on the internet and saw that the horsepower rating on the Z22S engine was only rated at 86 horsepower???? I thought what the hell.... A stock L16 has 90 horsepower from the factory. Is this right or will a Z22S engine with a L series head make some decent power? Has anyone else built one and were you happy with it? :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: If this is a decent engine set up it wouldn't cost me much, since I already have most the parts. I would probably use this a temporary engine in my race wagon till I get "THE BEAST" built and then keep it for a back up engine just in case I blow a motor later.

[datzenmike]

There was a time when all motors were measured at the crank for hp. (NET) No water pumps, alternators, no flywheels, no parasitic losses of any kind in an attempt to publish the highest possible numbers. Somewhen in the 70s or 80s this changed to rear wheel hp numbers (SAE) including all belts and 'peripherals' on the engine to get a closer to the real world reading. Early and later measurements are like comparing apples to oranges.

 

Rear wheel driveling losses are (roughly) 18% so a 90 hp (this seems a tad high) L16 is really just under 70hp. an L18 about 80 hp and an L20B roughly 90 hp. A Z22 is about 100hp.

 

Byron on The Realm has a Z22 with L head, unknown cam and twin side drafts and dyno-ed it at 132Rear wheel hp... not too shabby. It's now EFI and 6 more hp.

[Dirttrack510]

I should of just pm'd you mike to start with. lol.... Will it put out a little more power still with the L series head or is that a wash? oops... I didn't see the bottom of your post. Thanks again Mike

[wayno]

This is my LZ22 thread, which is really a LZ23, I have had a few issues with one of the headbolt holes, but my L20b cannot touch this engine, I have done a few mods on the head and block.

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/31213-waynos-lz22/page__view__findpost__p__466747__hl__wayno__fromsearch__1

[Dirttrack510]

Hey Wayno, I have a similar crack situation in one of my L20B blocks. I'm guessing you'd recommend against using it now? :( I'd be using for my race car, but it only runs for about 20 minutes at a time, twice per night. Would some sort of "cold weld" crap maybe seal up the cracks? like maybe JB Weld on the threads instead of pipe sealant?

[datzenmike]

It would depend on the crack. I think if you took all running L20Bs off the road and inspected carefully you would find many have cracks but run just fine. When I say crack, you think coolant or oil oozing out, but many are just hairline going nowhere. Another way to look at it is that this is an area that was stressed and has now relieved that stress by forming a small crack. It's been there for 20 years with no problems. A crack in a moving part would be different. HRH had some around the water passages welded up and milled. If this was to be a turbo motor that would severely stress the block past what it could normally expect to see then yes I would be more concerned about them. Never heard of an L motor fail from a cracked block... cracks are found only when a good, often running motor, is taken apart to build up.

[Dirttrack510]

ok, thanks mike. my only crack is just like Wayno's it passes from a water jacket hole to a head bolt and back to the other water jacket hole. I wasn't really concerned with it till I read that water could climb the head bolt and get into the top of the head. I was kinda thinking I could put a really small O ring around that head bolt that would "crush" when the bolt is torqued down to seal off the bolt and head bolt hole, just to be safe. Being that's mine is a center head bolt, the O ring idea seemed easy, because it's gonna be the first head bolt going into the block anyway.

[datzenmike]

Well the top of the bolt has a thick washer and 60 ft lbs clamping it down onto the 'soft' aluminum head so I don't think water is going to get out of the bolt hole. That's if any water can actually get to the bolt. Maybe just a dab of sealer on the washer.

[Dirttrack510]

ok

[datzenmike]

To get the absolute best clamping force on that head make sure the bolt and block threads are cleaner than clean. You can run a bottoming tap down to clear them. Any crap in the bottom of the hole will not allow the bolt to full depth. Dirt or rust on the threads will make the bolt reach it's final torque too soon. Wipe the bolt threads with an oily rag and put a drop of oil between the washer and the head of the bolt.

 

Nissan's fix for the Z24 gasket failures is to loosen each head bolt one at a time and torque to the final amount, about 60 ft lbs. One at a time in any order with the motor dead cold. They recommend doing this at every tune up. Likely you would be removing the valve cover to set the valves later anyway, so just torque the bolts before starting it up. I see no harm doing this on any L series motor either.

[wayno]

Hey Wayno, I have a similar crack situation in one of my L20B blocks. I'm guessing you'd recommend against using it now? :( I'd be using for my race car, but it only runs for about 20 minutes at a time, twice per night. Would some sort of "cold weld" crap maybe seal up the cracks? like maybe JB Weld on the threads instead of pipe sealant?

 

 

That was my first time doing anything like that(engine conversion/build), was not happy when I got the call from the machinist about the cracks, as you can see from the responces on that thread, some thought it was bad, while others said it wasn't that bad, obviously I used the block, and that is not the headbolt hole I am having issues with, my headbolt issue I am having is that I used a short bolt in a hole that was supposed to have a long one in it, it's really weird, I have two bolts that are longer by a quarter inch than the rest, and they were supposed to be used in the holes with the headgasket alignment dowels, I had no issues torqueing it down the first time, but it pulled the threads out 500 miles later, I tried fixing it myself, but I kept blowing headgaskets in that area. I had the hole fixed, but put a stud kit in the block this time, but have not put the block back in the truck yet, but am hoping this fixes the issue, as the L20b I have in the truck now just isn't cutting it, once you have had more power, it's hard to go backwards.

[Sealik]

That was my first time doing anything like that(engine conversion/build), was not happy when I got the call from the machinist about the cracks, as you can see from the responces on that thread, some thought it was bad, while others said it wasn't that bad, obviously I used the block, and that is not the headbolt hole I am having issues with, my headbolt issue I am having is that I used a short bolt in a hole that was supposed to have a long one in it, it's really weird, I have two bolts that are longer by a quarter inch than the rest, and they were supposed to be used in the holes with the headgasket alignment dowels, I had no issues torqueing it down the first time, but it pulled the threads out 500 miles later, I tried fixing it myself, but I kept blowing headgaskets in that area. I had the hole fixed, but put a stud kit in the block this time, but have not put the block back in the truck yet, but am hoping this fixes the issue, as the L20b I have in the truck now just isn't cutting it, once you have had more power, it's hard to go backwards.

 

Just 2 that are longer...?.. out of the 10 head bolts used?

[Jester]

I just got done bottom tapping the entire block of a Z22. EVERY hole in that thing came out at least 1/4" if not 3/8" deeper than when I started. I don't think they use a bottoming tap when they put the threads into the blocks.

Another idea for your engine build would be to use the L20B crank & balancer in the Z22 block. Gives you a fully counter weighted crankshaft. Better for high RPM use.

[datzenmike]

Another idea for your engine build would be to use the L20B crank & balancer in the Z22 block. Gives you a fully counter weighted crankshaft. Better for high RPM use.

 

Yes but you wouldn't have an LZ22 motor then. At best an LZ 2.1 motor could be built.

[ggzilla]

Actually they are still measured at the flyweel, even the new cars. What changed was:

 

1960s: Gross HP at flywheel, as Mike described

 

1972: American automakers started using SAE NET HP at flyweel as-installed condition with all accessories and exhaust (SAE J1349). Manufacturers rated SAE NET HP themselves in various ways.

 

2005: A few manufacturers started using "SAE Certified Power" at the flywheel (SAE J2723). To attain certification the test must follow the SAE standard in question, take place in a ISO9000/9002 certified facility and be witnessed by an SAE approved third party. A few manufacturers such switched to the new ratings immediately, which raised the HP for some engines, but fell for most. Some manufacturers didn't switch.

[wayno]

Just 2 that are longer...?.. out of the 10 head bolts used?

 

OK, there are 10 bolts holding the head on, not counting the two 10mm ones on the front, 6 of them 10 bolts are short, the other 4 are long, beleave it or not, two of the 4 long bolts were a quarter inch longer than the other 2, and I got them mixed up, they all torqued down fine the first time, I made it almost 1000 miles before the headgasket blew, when I pulled it apart, the drivers side front bolt was loose, when I put it back together, I checked the bolt lengths and put them into the correct holes, but it was to late, when I was torqueing them, that one kept pulling the threads out, so I tried finding a longer one on a sunday, but not a chance, so I made a stud from a longer bolt, and ran into another problem, with everything in position, when it came time to torque that one down, I couldn't get a socket on that nut to torque it, so in the end, I used a wrench on that one and hoped for the best, it did last quite a while though. I bought a stud kit this time made for the L block with 12 point nuts from ARP, everything torqued down great, I am hoping this lasts a while, I am hoping for years.

[Dirttrack510]

 

Another idea for your engine build would be to use the L20B crank & balancer in the Z22 block. Gives you a fully counter weighted crankshaft. Better for high RPM use.

 

Actually, my friend owns a racing engine shop, he's going to counterweight the Z22 crank and knife edge it too. It should spin up very well when it's done. We're gonna try to build it to turn up to around 8,000 RPM.

[Jester]

Looking forward to those pics.

[docbainey]

I just got done bottom tapping the entire block of a Z22. EVERY hole in that thing came out at least 1/4" if not 3/8" deeper than when I started. I don't think they use a bottoming tap when they put the threads into the blocks.

Another idea for your engine build would be to use the L20B crank & balancer in the Z22 block. Gives you a fully counter weighted crankshaft. Better for high RPM use.

 

 

What he said

 

Plus you could put long rods in, lighten up the valve train, mild cam, thats one way I'm heading.

 

I think you need a Z dampner also? I remotley remember something like that , that was necessary for the L20 for hi rpm

[Jester]

What he said

 

Plus you could put long rods in, lighten up the valve train, mild cam, thats one way I'm heading.

 

I think you need a Z dampner also? I remotley remember something like that , that was necessary for the L20 for hi rpm

 

You use the balancer for the crank your using. L20b is fully counter weighted and the Z22 is not.

[DISLEXICDIME]

after having my l20b crack and cause my head gasket to blow and 3 out of the 4 l20b blocks i looked at had the same crack. I decided against building a l20b and bought a built l18 and never had an issue

[datzenmike]

I just got done bottom tapping the entire block of a Z22. EVERY hole in that thing came out at least 1/4" if not 3/8" deeper than when I started. I don't think they use a bottoming tap when they put the threads into the blocks.

Another idea for your engine build would be to use the L20B crank & balancer in the Z22 block. Gives you a fully counter weighted crankshaft. Better for high RPM use.

 

 

What he said

 

Plus you could put long rods in, lighten up the valve train, mild cam, thats one way I'm heading.

 

I think you need a Z dampner also? I remotley remember something like that , that was necessary for the L20 for hi rpm

 

 

You use the balancer for the crank your using. L20b is fully counter weighted and the Z22 is not.

 

First swapping in an L20B crank shortens the stroke so you will have a smaller motor than if you stick with the Z22 crank. The biggest displacement you can make with Nissan parts is a 2.1 liter motor. Yes you can use the longer 6" (152.5mm) rods from a Z20E but you will also need the pistons with shorter pin height to match. They only come in flattop and '86mm bore so you will be making a long rod L20B with 9.9 compression and open L head.

 

Only the KA motors have an actual damper on the front pulley, L and Z series are simply balanced and run. Non fully counter-weighted Z22 cranks are good to 6,500- 7,000.

 

Counter weighting it is fine, knife edging it is desperate sounding. If the crank were dipping into and splashing the oil pan oil (it isn't) then yeah but it's just spinning in the air not worth the bother. F-1 cranks aren't knife edged. This is another case of some racers do it so I will too. Like drilled rotors.

 

I would make and install a windage tray that removes oil spray and fog suspended in the turbulent air around the crank plus a modified oil pan to lower the oil level away from the crank and or baffle it to prevent splashing on the crank under accelerations and turns.

[ggzilla]

Z22 is fully balanced from the factory and has crank counterweights. Use the externally balanced front pulley and flywheel.

[datzenmike]

Z22 is fully balanced from the factory and has crank counterweights. Use the externally balanced front pulley and flywheel.

 

It's fully balanced but not fully counter weighted. The L20B crank has full counterweights for all throws. Z22 and Z24 do not.

 

 

My L20B crank (TOP) and Z22 crank below it.

 

 

My KA24E crank isn't full counter weighted either...

 

[ggzilla]

Big deal. Both are fully balanced when installed. Do you plan on pushing to 400 hp or something? In that case, just start with a KA.