In case you think we're NOT doomed

[Z-train]

Take all three and feed them into a giant meat grinder.:fu:

 

 

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/15851207/detail.html

[djmoreron]

does not surprise me..... seen it time and time again. i try to convince as many kids as possible to not to end up in this lifestyle, but im not their parent

[datrod]

Take all three and feed them into a giant meat grinder.:fu:

 

 

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/15851207/detail.html

 

That guy just looks like a worthless piece of SHIT. I'm sure his kid won't make to his 20's. That's the sad part

[datzenmike]

All three? The two parents, maybe. (they could still grow up and change ... hmmm) A four year old? Still innocent I think. To bad you can't pick your parents, but you can't.

[zenndog]

My son is going to be 4 and my daughter is 2 1/2, this thread made me peak into their room and give them a little peck on the forhead, don't take whatever sanity you have for granted!!!!!!! God I love those little critters.zenon

[Phlebmaster]

Looking at the guy...you can probably guess he is a product of his parents. If he only had some hope.:mellow:

[fiveNdime]

This is the reason some people just shouldn't have kids.

I pray the government never gets into parenting, but maybe we should make all violent offenders sterile :D

[datzenmike]

Set a minimum age for child bearing... say 25 or older.

Enforced birth control until then.

License to have kids, say $30,000 fee, plus course, test. This would eliminate most of the losers as it demonstrates ability to work/earn an income and intent to have a family.

Applicants must not have a record within last 3 years, no history of violent crime, drugs, genetic medical problems, mental illness.

 

more:

[fiveNdime]

What about people that can and respectively do have kids before 25????

It already costs an average of 269,000 dollars to raise a kid until you kick them out:D??? To tack on another 30 thou is crazy!

Would you pay 30 grand for a kid? most wouldn't.

 

Seem to be good ideas, but just wouldn't be feasible.

 

Its a slippery slope!

[shane_lxi]

prolly the same two that raised these kids :P.

 

[djmoreron]

a fee shouldnt be required to have child, because that would be like saying only rich people are good enough to have children. for example

 

 

 

oh, and whoever gave birth to this guy

 

 

 

 

 

(popozao)

[datzenmike]

What about people that can and respectively do have kids before 25????

It already costs an average of 269,000 dollars to raise a kid until you kick them out:D??? To tack on another 30 thou is crazy!

Would you pay 30 grand for a kid? most wouldn't.

 

Seem to be good ideas, but just wouldn't be feasible.

 

Its a slippery slope!

 

Line two:Enforced birth control

 

What's another $30 thou, it's nothing really. It's the cost of a new car, big deal. It shows your commitment and ability to work toward a goal and the ability to earn a living and to be able to support and raise a family. It would cost less to raise that child if there were less welfare mothers/fathers having litters of kids... less crime, less welfare, less gang wars, less drugs, less people, better education .... more to go around.

 

Make a decision... new car or kid. don't forget there would only be other responsible adults around and you wouldn't be competing with hundreds of thousands of losers so the cost would plummet. Hey it's OK to be a loser if you choose but if you want to breed you don't get to do it indiscriminately on the backs of others who work hard for their family. Period.

 

If by say.. 25 or older you can get your life in order, pay the fees, pass the test, qualify including a career, med exam etc.. you're in. If not, well you live out your life in a better world and hopefully contribute to it.

 

 

Yes it isn't feasible but every day it comes a little closer. And YES it's a slippery slope so we would have to tread very carefully indeed.

[datzenmike]

a fee shouldnt be required to have child, because that would be like saying only rich people are good enough to have children. for example

 

(popozao)

 

Not rich people, just people who can afford to have a family. In order to have the down payment you would have to have a stable job and be a wage earner or demonstrate the ability to make money. (as opposed to selling crack on the corner) Who would argue that there aren't people out there that that absolutely should not have kids? In a way making money is a form of intelligence test anyway. It wouldn't just be the fee, you would have to pass a screening test, med exam, physical/mental tests and more.

 

We spay, neuter and euthanise our pets to control their populations in fact if we did more of the first we would have to do less of the last. We don't allow them to breed uncontrollably around our feet till we can't feed them all.

 

What if we grew up in a world where we all from birth knew we were wanted, cared for, had an appreciation of family and if you wanted one when you grew up you had to work for it. Sounds equal to me.

 

Hey, just kicking some ideas around. Nothings carved in stone.

[Z-train]

I won't take it to the $25,000 mark,BUT -If you rely on public transportation-you can't afford a kid.

[pope_face]

I think we can all agree the parents in the news story shouldn't be permitted to have kids... perhaps child services should take the kid. However, I did want to chime in on some of these proposed "solutions"...

 

Mike, I don't want to say it, but your comments have me a little concerned. I believe your intentions are good, but I take offense to some of the comments you made.

 

I understand the concept of putting a charge on parenting, but the only thing that will result in is allowing people who can afford it to procreate. This won't necessarily weed out the losers, the drug dealers, the abusers, the liers, etc. There are people who make a lot more than most people by illicit means. There are also good people who wouldn't be able to afford that much money. What about people living on farms out in the boonies? These people may well be able to provide for themselves and a family... perhaps they grow their own food, can afford a bit of money to send their children off to school, and are generous and loving people, but somehow can't afford thirty or even twenty thousand dollars for a child.

 

The part that I feel very strongly about, however, is the fact that people would have to pass a physical/mental test, and could not have any genetic diseases. Who is to decide whether or not a person passes? What would the tests entail? Would the person have to have an IQ of 130 or above or be able to bench-press over 200 lbs? Would concessions be made for people who were exceptionally intelligent, but couldn't pass the physical test? How about the other way, extraordinarily strong people who need a calculator to do math? What genetic diseases would you look for? Anything, or specific ones? Would there be a zero-tolerance policy, or could exceptions be made?

 

I don't mean to be rude or anything, but to me this concerns people's rights (or privelages), and I happen to take such topics seriously. According to the suggestions Mike put forth in his second post, I would not be permitted to have a child. There are certain things in my life that are either in the past, or I have no control over, but I am very strongly against the notion that these things could prevent me from having children.

 

As for the not being permitted to have a child if you rely on public transportation... there are many reasons why someone would prefer to use transit. Perhaps a vehicle is pointless for them, and they have no desire to pay an extra several hundred dollars a month for upkeep. Perhaps they believe in carpooling and public transportation in order to reduce greenhouse emissions. Maybe they can't afford a car. Maybe they can't drive. Or, maybe they just like talking to folks on the bus. Unfortunately, it's difficult to understand a person's intentions simply by looking at the end result.

 

Again, I don't mean to be an ass about this, and I don't mean to be rude to anyone, just trying to shine a bit of light on the other side of the fence.

[Z-train]

IAs for the not being permitted to have a child if you rely on public transportation... there are many reasons why someone would prefer to use transit. Perhaps a vehicle is pointless for them, and they have no desire to pay an extra several hundred dollars a month for upkeep. Perhaps they believe in carpooling and public transportation in order to reduce greenhouse emissions. Maybe they can't afford a car. Maybe they can't drive. Or, maybe they just like talking to folks on the bus. .

 

 

You are delusional.No one in their right mind with a child would OPT for public transportation over their own vehicle.Have you seen what rides public transportation?

 

Pushing a kid in a stroller with 9 bags hanging off it from Target and this is theri choice?Thanks for the comedic interlude.:blink:

[pope_face]

You are delusional.No one in their right mind with a child would OPT for public transportation over their own vehicle.Have you seen what rides public transportation?

 

Pushing a kid in a stroller with 9 bags hanging off it from Target and this is theri choice?Thanks for the comedic interlude.:blink:

 

Mmm, I understand what you mean. I didn't think that through all the way... I was thinking more that you shouldn't be prevented from having kids if you ride the bus... but, I suppose you'd have to get a car before having kids either way. My bad.

[Z-train]

No worries.

[datzenmike]

And YES it's a slippery slope so we would have to tread very carefully indeed.

 

 

......

What if we grew up in a world where we all from birth knew we were wanted, cared for, had an appreciation of family and if you wanted one when you grew up you had to work for it. Sounds equal to me.

 

Hey, just kicking some ideas around. Nothings carved in stone.

 

Thanks fil. :o Maybe my brave new world does need some fine tuning.

[Bleach]

so you really think 15 year olds are going to stop having unprotected sex if its illegal? :D lol

 

I think someone already mentioned it, but the first problem is the breakdown of the family unit. The 19 year old father likely did not have a good childhood himself.

[shane_lxi]

Taxing pregnancy is stupid. Bottom line. You cant control people reproducing no matter what you do, and stupid people are going to be born/raised no matter how hard you try to prevent it, or how much money their parents earn :P.

 

The comment about paying 30+ thousand for a kid is pointless too. Some of us are incredibly hard workers, and have absolutely no problem providing for our families (I own a home and support my fiance and I on around $2500 a month). I am not poor, or by any means in poverty, but at this point in my life I dont see spending $30k on anything, and even though I dont see myself having kids anytime soon, I am positive I would be financially and responsibly qualified.

 

You cant stop it from happening ever, and generally, people who seriously try to stop things from happening on this grand of a scale end up doing more harm than help :P.

[datzenmike]

Taxing pregnancy is stupid. Bottom line. You cant control people reproducing no matter what you do, and stupid people are going to be born/raised no matter how hard you try to prevent it, or how much money their parents earn :P.

 

It may be, by todays standards, somewhat unrealistic, but it isn't stupid. We can't afford to breed uncontrolled anymore, this is apparent even now. As Bleach mentioned, the breakdown of the family unit doesn't help. Of course 15 year olds will have sex so? what's new? it's for experiment or entertainment mostly, just as long as there are no consequences like births. When they are matured they can choose to have a family later.

 

 

The comment about paying 30+ thousand for a kid is pointless too. Some of us are incredibly hard workers, and have absolutely no problem providing for our families (I own a home and support my fiance and I on around $2500 a month). I am not poor, or by any means in poverty, but at this point in my life I dont see spending $30k on anything, and even though I dont see myself having kids anytime soon, I am positive I would be financially and responsibly qualified.

 

By your above statements I would have to say you are well on your way to being qualified. What's your worry? You pay fees for all kinds of licenses and services even now just to drive your car on the public roads. Why not with a family? Are you safer when someone without a driver's license drives an unsafe, unregistered, uninsured vehicle on the same road as you?

 

You cant stop it from happening ever, and generally, people who seriously try to stop things from happening on this grand of a scale end up doing more harm than help :P.

 

I agree it would be difficult and not happen over night. Would I be wrong for wanting something better or more wrong for allowing things to continue?

 

What if we grew up in a world where we all from birth knew we were wanted, cared for, had an appreciation of family and if you wanted one when you grew up you had to work for it. Sounds equal to me.

 

Hey, just kicking some ideas around. Nothings carved in stone.

[Jtek]

shoot them all. dead fucking serious as cancer.

[Phlebmaster]

Lets think about the guy's situation. Why is he in a gang? Most likely for family and protection....something he may not have had at home.

 

Why would he want to have his kid join his gang? This may be the only thing he knows and the only thing he feels he has control over. Maybe...just maybe he is thinking of protecting his kid. Sounds stupid I know but think about it from his shoes.

 

It is real easy to stand on the outside and judge someone's actions as terrible. How many of you have lived on the streets? Been hungry? Beaten up by those who you thought loved you? Or have not had a family who cares?

 

No doubt many of you have and still managed to make good choices. Good for those who have been through hell and made it!!:mellow:

 

I for one having been there myself can say that at his age he still does not have the cognitive ability to realize his actions...obviously he didn't think when he beat up his girl friend and still went home like he was not going to have to pay for his actions. He got caught.

 

What this guy needs is some kind of hope....what else is there for this guy or his kid?

[fiveNdime]

Mike,

By your standards I would pass the tests. But I could not afford to have a kid...and I know this, making me pay a fee isn't going to help the situation. An extra 30 g's in my pocket at the end of the year is a big deal when I could afford to have a child. Seriously you left out one giant hole in your theory. Self employed people? Another problem....what if you have a child and they die in a month, a year, couple years....is there a refund...seriously?? are you going to be required to have full coverage on them....for how long?? Dude like I said its a slippery slope. Your comment about being a looser if I don't think like you:fu: I am probably further in life then 90% of people out there and make 50 % less then most. Its not the governments job to tell me what I can and cant do. They do enough of that already. You are pushing buttons you have no clue as to what there doing. Its personal integrity, don't blame shit on your parents and don't blame it on the government.

 

This kid can make choices just fine....I know I did at that age.