Timing, Distributors, vacuums, and questions.

[Laecaon]

So first off I will say my car runs. Getting decent gas mileage, though it could be better. Has no problem keeping up with traffic. Very slight hesitation right at the pedal is hit, but then immediate pick up. Car is slow to rev at the low end, but then eventually picks up in the high. Seems to be a bit of hesitation anytime the I hit the pedal too fast (yes the accelerator pump is working).

 

So I was doing my valve adjustment today. I have a question about this too but I will put that at the end. Then decided I should check my point gap. Discovered there was no gap :blink: . Adjusted that to specs, and started car expecting to hear something different. Nope, same old same old. So then I thought I would check my timing, so I hooked up my gun, and got my light flashing somewhere between 30BTDC and 40BTDC. This puzzles me as that is quite far advanced. Some pictures before I say more.

 

Motor at TDC:

 

Cam Gear agrees!

 

Lobes too:

 

Rotor at wire #1:

 

Inside the distributor, obviously:

 

A few more things. My distributor is turned all the way to "R" so I cant retard it anymore. I can also turn the Distributor to "A" with out any ping. So I am probably off a tooth. Ok. But Turning the distributor to R the car starts to idle worse (Idles best somewhere on the retarded side of the mid line). Yes my vacuum advance is disconnected while checking timing. I tried the suck test on the vacuum advance, and nothing happened, both with engine on and off. Off I can hear a bit of air. I also tried moving the Plate inside the distributor, and it doesnt really want to move to freely.

 

So is my distributor just tired and should be replaced? Anything else to think of? Is the timing off due to the plate and the vacuum advance? I guess my biggest problem is something just seems wrong. If it aint broke dont fix it, but Im not sure if its not broken.

 

 

And now the valve thing. Back in January I adjusted the valves because I could here a sound at idle from cylinder 4. Well anytime I decelerate from a high speed, say the offramp from the freeway, I could now here a valve tick of sorts, but very faint. This is why I adjusted them again. I am more confident of the adjustments today. Well After turning the car on, I have cylinder 4 valve noise back. Any ideas of what it might be. It definitely not a friendly sound with the hood up.

[Uncle Laulau]

I've got a couple points distributers lying about, would you like em? Maybe this just means it's time for a electronic ignition. I love mine. I got mine a cost less auto parts for something around $100 bucks with coil and resistor. PM me if you would like to have my old distributor. One was off my l18 and the other was off a l20, I think. Hope you get it timed the way you like.

 

Oh I heard that webers have that hesitation with quick pedal applications. Mine does the exact same thing. It got less pronounced after cleaning it and getting my idle speed and mixture perfect. Hang in there.

[wayno]

If you sucked on the vacuum advance tube and nothing happened, something is broken, has a hole, or is stuck/frozen. It also sounds like your distibuter drive is off a few teeth, I could be wrong, but I beleave that #1 plug wire on the dist. should be at 4pm, that is where mine is and everything lines up correctly. 12pm would be closest to the valve cover.

[banzai510(hainz)]

30 to 40 deg????????

your dizzy is off. drop the oil pump and reset it. @ TDC its on my video

 

put motor to TDC as you have in photo and the dizzy rotor should be right on the plug wire when the dizzy timming plate is in the center or near the center.

Remeber you can adjust the timing plate more from the underside there is a 8mm bolt that you can loosen also.

 

simple fix.

 

 

get a electronic dizzy or a single point dizz and get a Pertronix.

[racerx]

yep pertronix definately...easy to install

[Uncle Laulau]

Oh I forgot to mention the wiring to the coil and resistor on my truck was a bit off. I went over it and made some adjustments and most of the hesitation went away. Check out these voics!

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/33382-video-of-my-problem/

[ggzilla]

Did you check the dwell? Because if the points are worn too much, adjusting the gap won't be correct. The factory maintainence schedule calls for replacement every 2 yrs/24k miles.

 

light flashing somewhere between 30BTDC and 40BTDC

It shouldn't vary running running steady ... common reasons for varying timing is:

* Dwell is incorrect

* Distributor shaft bushing is worn

* Vacuum advance plate is worn (can affect static timing)

* Mechanical advance weights are worn

 

As for 30DBTDC your gun is a advance type? It could be out of spec. Use a simple timing light or doublecheck it against another engine.

[Laecaon]

Did you check the dwell? Because if the points are worn too much, adjusting the gap won't be correct. The factory maintainence schedule calls for replacement every 2 yrs/24k miles.

 

 

It shouldn't vary running running steady ... common reasons for varying timing is:

* Dwell is incorrect

* Distributor shaft bushing is worn

* Vacuum advance plate is worn (can affect static timing)

* Mechanical advance weights are worn

 

As for 30DBTDC your gun is a advance type? It could be out of spec. Use a simple timing light or doublecheck it against another engine.

 

Im sure it is mostly a dwell problem for the timing being "off". It was at 40BTDC after adjusting the points. (Points are new as of January, and the car has only really been driven alot since canby). I did adjust them a bit more and it brought the timing down to a hair above 20BTDC. I need to get ahold of a dwell meter.

 

So yes, Dwell is incorrect

Distributor shaft felt pretty tight when trying to move it around.

Vacuum advance seems stuck, I cant seem to move it.

Mechanical advance, well probably. I know this motor is old, and PO drove the car alot. (he drove the car to New York once, when he hit Idaho the motor died, so he swapped in another motor (no idea about ancillary items) from "a datsun truck" and kept going.) Yes the motor is still an L16.

 

It is a simple timing gun. I was giving numbers based off of where the indicator is when the light flashes. In my one picture of the indicator at TDC, the other white dash is at 20BTDC, and the indicator was almost that distance again when the light flashes. The light does work fine, Just used it on another motor, and I have used it before when I put the new points in.

 

I am going to talk with my friend about obtaining his Matchbox.

[datzenmike]

I think you'll find a different (EI) dizzy will fix this. You will also need the EI matching coil so you can get rid of the dropping resister (ballast resister) and gap your plugs between 0.038" -0.042"

 

The 3 BBs in the stock dizzy are in a plastic cage that breaks and this will jam the advance plate. Get another timing light you can trust. Setting the static timing does not need the vacuum advance hose off as it comes from a port on the carb and there is no vacuum at idle.

 

All engines want lots of advance at idle because of extremely weak cylinder filling. Gas and air molecules are so thin and far apart that it takes lots of extra time to burn them. For emission purposes, timing is run at the static 12 degrees at idle, but as soon as you open the throttle slightly the motor gets the vacuum advance that it wants. This could be why it hesitates.

 

You can run the dizzy and spindle on any tooth position you want as long as:

 

When installed, the rotor is directly under any one of the four wires on the distributor cap AND:

 

There is sufficient adjustment range on the basE plate to adjust the timing properly.

 

Whichever wire the rotor points to now becomes the new #ONE so swap the other wires in counter clockwise position THREE, FOUR, TWO.

[banzai510(hainz)]

you even try loosing the 8mm bolt underneath to readjust the timming plate?????????

try this first. I hsd stuck dizzyd before but still drove fine it set inbetween 5 -15 degs just find the sweet spot.

 

everybody need to get e EI or a Point conversion. Time to update. best upgrade in the world. better than getting bling wheels and coil overs!!!!!!!!!!

[Laecaon]

you even try loosing the 8mm bolt underneath to readjust the timming plate?????????

try this first. I hsd stuck dizzyd before but still drove fine it set inbetween 5 -15 degs just find the sweet spot.

 

everybody need to get e EI or a Point conversion. Time to update. best upgrade in the world. better than getting bling wheels and coil overs!!!!!!!!!!

 

I will look at it today. And yes I agree about a new dizzy being better than new wheels or coil overs, but is it better than getting rid of my automatic? I hate that thing.

[ggzilla]

Is having a manual transmission that don't run right better than an automatic with a reliable spark??? The trans is the 2nd most important upgrade ... i hated my auto 510

[datzenmike]

My sedan 710 is auto and I can dig it. After driving it I have a new respect for them. They aren't that bad the way people make then out to be. Put in gear and just go and forget it. My goon is 5 speed and there is much more interaction and involvement with a standard. You are closer, almost a part of the car. A melding of man and machine, active not passive.

[Laecaon]

Is having a manual transmission that don't run right better than an automatic with a reliable spark??? The trans is the 2nd most important upgrade ... i hated my auto 510

 

:lol:

 

It has a reliable spark, No backfiring, it drives no sweat to 75mph. I find second and 3rd just suck for any hill around here unless I am going at least 45 up it. Anytime my secondaries open, the car just bogs (unless the RPMs are way up there). I find the jump from 1st to 2nd is too large. I hate my automatic.

 

Yes the rotor is under a wire, and it happens to be wire #1.

 

Basically what I am saying: for the price to get a new distributor for my car, I can get the the final stuff for my tranny swap (I have everything except pilot bushing, and slave cylinder, and new tranny fluid) for half. The car as it is drives, gets up to speed, is all around actually smooth sounding (except cylinder 4 valve(s)), probably getting about 25+mpg. My biggest problems driving the car is never being able to go WOT, unless already at some higher rpm, and the lack luster torque, car takes off fine in 1st, but when it shifts into 2nd forget about going anywhere fast. My friends 71 521 is so much faster(quicker; I can tell mine will hit a higher top speed but what is the point other than getting tickets?) than my car and he has a decent amount of backfire and afterfire.

 

Basically I have learned thus far, my distributor sucks, get a single point/EI one.

and Dwell may be having a certain play in this.

 

I will keep my car running, but at the same time I am not afraid to take it apart for a bit, I have a second car, but I dont like my second car the same way ;)

[Laecaon]

My sedan 710 is auto and I can dig it. After driving it I have a new respect for them. They aren't that bad the way people make then out to be. Put in gear and just go and forget it. My goon is 5 speed and there is much more interaction and involvement with a standard. You are closer, almost a part of the car. A melding of man and machine, active not passive.

 

My biggest problem is I am a 21 year old male who likes cars.

 

My first car: 89 Mercedes 300SE = automatic (4spd with 2nd gear start :blink: )

second :93 Ford Thunderbird = automatic

third: 71 Datsun 510 = automatic

Fourth: 01 VW Jetta = automatic

 

I learned how to drive stick before I had my permit, but I keep going on these 2 year durations of never touching a car with a manual so I practically forget how to work the clutch. I am so sick of having an automatic. If I want an automatic I can drive my Jetta.

[ggzilla]

matchbox distributor is $12.50 at pick-n-pull. I see an L-series one every time I go there.

[Laecaon]

matchbox distributor is $12.50 at pick-n-pull. I see an L-series one every time I go there.

 

Not fair! :P

 

Everytime I go, Every single 620 has the distributor ripped out. I once saw a 280zx with its distributor... <_<

 

I look everytime I have have ever gone to the junkyard. I cant find one. And then seeing ratsun prices I just avoid it.

[datzenmike]

Get that dizzy fixed even if you switch to another points setup. You will be glad you did. Your performance at lower speeds will return because you are not getting the proper advance. My auto snaps your neck into second and a downshift to second at speed is impressive. The standard is likely faster because there is an extra gear shift.

 

If you do go to the 4 or 5 speed your motor will still bog at low RPMs and this will need fixing anyway.

[Laecaon]

I do not have unreasonable expectations of any "fix" I might be doing. I also dont expect everything to be fixed at once. I do what I can at the given moment. Money is a hurdle for me, as I dont have a job (how many apps do I have to send out!?!), So I try to pick the lesser of the evils.

 

Oops! Someone did this backwards. A for effort, F for solution.

 

So do I need to drain all the oil before taking out the oil pump? I am guessing yes...

[datzenmike]

Only the oilabove the pump and maybe a small amount toward the filter will leak out so have a small container and some rags handy.

 

 

It may be 180 but it will still work just fine. The vacuum advance or the matchbox (if you get one) may hit the thermostat housing would be the only reason for dropping the pump and changing it.

 

.

[Laecaon]

Its just weird. The bottom adjuster (upside down one) is on full retard, and so is the top one. So what would cause this?

[Laecaon]

This thread is now on hiatus.

 

I sprang a leak of the red fluid.

 

Tranny swap is now next on the to do list.

[ggzilla]

Yes if it is 180 out, then simply put the plug wires on 180 to match. It works A-OK.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Its just weird. The bottom adjuster (upside down one) is on full retard, and so is the top one. So what would cause this?

 

center the timming plates then see where the rotor is at TDC zero on crank . then adjust . if too much adjustment is need most likely off a tooth. But you said it was timmed before to 10 so Im thinking it just worked loose.

 

simple fix.

[hogboy52]

To go back to your original concern of why your timing had become so advanced, you say the point gap was near zero and you opened it up to spec. If the point gap is made wider the lobes will strike the points rubbing block sooner which will advance the timing by twice distributor degrees. If point gap is changed, timing must also be changed. So whatever other ignition problems there may be, you need look no further for why it became advanced.