200 SX

[lg2]

I have a '71 510 Datsun. I'm currently changing from auto to a 5 speed (200sx tranny). I'm experiencing a problem though. For some reason the tranny will not slide complete in. Yes I've used the alignment tool for the clutch as well. The tranny needs to slide up about a inch or two. Also can I use the auto tranny crossmember on the 200sx tranny? Thanks for your help..

 

lg2

[datzenmike]

Try to drop the rear of the engine by jacking up on the front of the oil pan with a block of wood. You may also have to loosen the exhaust down pipe and the throttle linkage to allow movement.

 

I don't think the manual or automatic rear mount will be a perfect fit for the dogleg, so some modification is needed for sure. Try to get the driveshaft and tailshaft into the same position as the automatic it's replacing. This will preserve the driveshaft U joint angles and prevent vibration.

 

I put a zx 5 speed in my 710 and using the stock 710 mount the tailshaft was about 3-4" higher than the original 4 speed. I cut a section out of the mount and welded a U shaped section in that lowered it. It runs vibration free.

 

I doubt you will need to be this low.

 

 

.

[flatcat19]

Is the pressure plate over torqued?

I know I have a hard time if I tighten those bolts too much?

[H5WAGON]

I have a '71 510 Datsun. I'm currently changing from auto to a 5 speed (200sx tranny). I'm experiencing a problem though. For some reason the tranny will not slide complete in. Yes I've used the alignment tool for the clutch as well. The tranny needs to slide up about a inch or two. Also can I use the auto tranny crossmember on the 200sx tranny? Thanks for your help..

 

lg2

1. Pictures of your ride.......:P

2. You need to have your stock 4spd trans mount altered to hold the 200sx trans a bit lower.

3. Putting trans in by yourself or with a helper.... sometimes is a bitch! Try turning input shaft a bit, then try to put back up and see what happens, the splines sometimes dont just slide in super easy if the trans it at an angle....also the dowel at the top of the trans and the one on the exhaust side can cause problems.

4. Clean out pilot bearing/bushing.....Replace?

[datzenmike]

Forgot to ask....

 

When the automatic flex plate was removed there was a spacer on the end of the crankshaft... did you remove it? They look like one of these

 

 

You need standard flywheel bolts, the automatic bolts are shorter.

 

Did you install a pilot bushing in the end of the crankshaft?

 

 

 

 

 

.

[lg2]

Yes, I removed both spacers. There is a pilot bushing in place as well. I used a torque wrench putting in the bolts. I'm unfortunately working by myself. Thanks guys for your help. It's really frustrating. Nice illustration on the pictures by the way :)..

lg2

[LenRobertson]

A new pilot bushing is only about $3 or so, and even my small (really small) town auto parts store was able to get me one. If you ever had a rig with a dry bushing, you'll not want to take a chance on an old one.

 

The sleeve that the throw-out bearing mounts on must be the correct length for the clutch you are using. Are you using the TO bearing and sleeve that came with the SX tranny? What clutch are you using? If you post the info, someone should be able to tell you if it the correct combo.

 

Getting the front tranny shaft through the clutch plate and into the pilot bushing can be a real bitch. You must bring the transmission up to the back of the block pretty much absolutely dead straight. And that isn't exactly easy to see. It really helps to have a second person try to see if the space between the front of the trans and the back of the block is the same distance all the way around. When the trans teetering on a floor jack and you are trying to tilt it on the jack so it is straight with the block, it gets pretty frustrating.

 

When I did the 5-speed conversion on my auto 510, I got so frustrated installing the tranny, I pulled the engine, bolted them together, and reinstalled together. But you shouldn't have to do that. People install 5-speeds in 510s with the engine in the car all the time.

 

Len

[ggzilla]

Double-check it: see if the alignment tool slides in and comes out easily.

 

Even when you use the alignment tool, the transmission input shaft splines might not be rotated enough to slide in. Sometimes just rotating the output shaft slightly (trans in gear) will allow it to slide in.

 

I've also had some success by having an assistant depress the clutch pedal partway while pushing the tranmission in the last little bit.

 

Lastly and most frustrating is if the tranmisssion physically is hitting the tunnel or some other part. So double-check that.

[LenRobertson]

Since you are doing this by yourself, try using a small wood block or something as a spacer to feel the gap between the trans and block, when you get them close. You can reach around and wiggle the spacer in the gap to see if the space is even. As datzenmike said, you need to raise the front of the engine. I'm almost sure the top of the trans bellhousing hits the trans tunnel on the car and keeps you from going in straight with the trans.

 

I recall something about turning the auto cross member 180 degrees (back to front), and maybe slotting the holes slightly. The cross member also needs to be lowered slightly, or a section cut out in the middle and lowered, or the rubber mount replaced with a thinner one - a pair of BMW rear trans mounts (320i era I think) can be used, I've heard. I spaced my 510 4-speed member down with 1 inch thick steel tubing. By the time I was done drilling holes and buying studs to do it, I wished I had bought the special cross member someone sells.

 

Len

[LenRobertson]

Before you put new oil in the trans, read this:

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/20936-manual-transmission-fluid/

 

Maybe more than you want to know, but important. Even as cheap as I am, I bought the NAPA stuff, and sleep better at night.

 

Len

[Laecaon]

There seems to have been at least three transmission crossmembers produced during the 510's lifespan: 1) Early manual (No rubber insolators), 2) Late manual (Rubber insolators) 3) Automatic Tranny crossmember. Regardless of which crossmember you have, they all need to be moved down about an inch to accomodate the tranny mount point which sticks down lower than the stock 4-speed. The mounting holes on the crossmembers will need to be slotted inward, and may also need to be altered more so that everything will line up. The automatic crossmember only needs to be slotted inward and then mounted backwards (i.e. The front of the crossmember should now be facing backwards)

[lg2]

Extra info is always welcomed thx Len. I will now double check the oil I have. I think it's 75-90. Also who sells the crossmember your referring to?

lg2

 

Since you are doing this by yourself, try using a small wood block or something as a spacer to feel the gap between the trans and block, when you get them close. You can reach around and wiggle the spacer in the gap to see if the space is even. As datzenmike said, you need to raise the front of the engine. I'm almost sure the top of the trans bellhousing hits the trans tunnel on the car and keeps you from going in straight with the trans.

 

I recall something about turning the auto cross member 180 degrees (back to front), and maybe slotting the holes slightly. The cross member also needs to be lowered slightly, or a section cut out in the middle and lowered, or the rubber mount replaced with a thinner one - a pair of BMW rear trans mounts (320i era I think) can be used, I've heard. I spaced my 510 4-speed member down with 1 inch thick steel tubing. By the time I was done drilling holes and buying studs to do it, I wished I had bought the special cross member someone sells.

 

Len

[lg2]

Laecaon... Dumb that down more for me please or show a picture. I have the auto crossmember.

 

lg2

[lg2]

Is there anyone on the right coast lol? As in east coast (west viginia morgantown)...

[LenRobertson]

Kinda early here, and I haven't had enough coffee, so my reply may be somewhat incoherent. The important thing about the oil isn't the weight, but the "yellow metal safe" rating. I know NAPA has the right stuff by the gallon. The NAPA part # is somewhere in that thread. It is kinda pricey, but there is enough for two trannys.

 

Did you understand my question about the clutch sleeve? Actually, maybe someone knows and can post if the dogleg 200SX sleeve is the right length for the L16 clutch (are you using an L16 engine?). I went to an L20b when I put my dogleg in, so I had to swap sleeves. If you get the wrong length in there, the clutch won't work, so we need to know what clutch you are using.If it turns out you need a different one, someone here on the group can probably help you find one.

 

I'm not familiar with the E Coast folks. Seems like there is someone in Maryland or Carolina or PA. I'm probably wrong on all 3 of those guesses, but someone will hopefully correct me.

 

I think this is what I was thinking of for cross member: http://www.vg30.com/510parts.html $75, so if you are cheap, like most Datsun owners, you will probably mod your auto one. When you get the dogleg bolted up to the engine, you can see better what need to be done to make your auto X-member work. I suspect even flipping the auto X-member doesn't lower the back of the trans enough to keep it from hitting the trans tunnel. I think you still need to lower the member, or cut and weld the center section, or use thinner rubber mounts. If you or a buddy can weld good, notching the center of the x-member is probably easiest and cheapest. If you look back through old posts here, you may find more ideas on the cross member thing.

 

Gotta head to Spokane and Pull n Save. Supposed to be an old 510, and a '79 510, but someone probably already got all the good bits.

 

Len

[lg2]

I'm not really sure about what sleeve your referring to Len? Are you talking about the pilot bushing? If so I did not remove anything from the tranny. I bought the motor from a friend. He left the flywheel and clutch on it. I wish I was still in NC because he'd help me more physically. The only thing I bought for it was the clutch plate which seem to be worn. The pressure plate seemed fine. Like you said 510 owners are frugal except I was that way before I became a 510 owner lol. Also how do I post pictures on here. I tried just click and drag but no lol. I see no attach file either.

 

lg2

[lg2]

I'm not really sure about what sleeve your referring to Len? Are you talking about the pilot bushing? If so I did not remove anything from the tranny. I bought the motor from a friend. He left the flywheel and clutch on it. I wish I was still in NC because he'd help me more physically. The only thing I bought for it was the clutch plate which seem to be worn. The pressure plate seemed fine. Like you said 510 owners are frugal except I was that way before I became a 510 owner lol. Also how do I post pictures on here. I tried just click and drag but no lol. I see no attach file either.

Yes I am using a L16 also..

lg2

[H5WAGON]

This is on my friends wagon...having him send a better picture...280zx transmission, but same issue. It uses part of the original X-member.

 

It was just cut and metal welded in vertical to hold the original bottom piece lower....:cool:

[lg2]

How do u all post picture please? Thanks H5 for the pictures but I can't really see that. If he has some measurements of what to do and in steps that would be great. Also is a pilot bushing considered a sleeve. If so. Is it possible this the reason my tranny won't slide on? Do they differ in size? I left mine on straight from the junkyard :)... Figure why not save a few bucks..

 

lg2

[LenRobertson]

I'm not really sure about what sleeve your referring to Len? Are you talking about the pilot bushing? If so I did not remove anything from the tranny. I bought the motor from a friend. He left the flywheel and clutch on it. I wish I was still in NC because he'd help me more physically. The only thing I bought for it was the clutch plate which seem to be worn. The pressure plate seemed fine. Like you said 510 owners are frugal except I was that way before I became a 510 owner lol. Also how do I post pictures on here. I tried just click and drag but no lol. I see no attach file either.

 

lg2

 

The sleeve I'm talking about is the tube the TO bearing is pressed onto, that the clutch fork slips into. The TO bearing is the part that turns, the sleeve is the part that carries it. And the sleeves come in a few different lengths. You need the correct length that matches the clutch you have, or it may not move the TO bearing far enough to disengage the clutch. http://dimequarterly.tierranet.com/tech/clutch.replacement.html shows a chart with different sleeve specs. Look at the "Diaphragm Height" in the chart. It shows 43-45mm for L16 510, and 31-33mm for '77-'79 200SX. So if you have an L16 engine and clutch, the 200SX TO sleeve won't work. It may be easier to find a 200SX clutch, new or used, than to find the right length sleeve. I don't know how the wrecking yards are in your area, or buddies with dead Datsuns. But first, you should figure out if you have an L16 & clutch. Look on the right side of the block, just under the top where it meets the cylinder head. The will be a flat spot with L16, L18, or L20 stamped in. Or measure the height of the clutch pressure plate. With Datsuns, parts can be swapped around so easily, knowing what model a part came from doesn't always mean it is correct to that model. I know this is all kind of confusing. The online writeups always make it sound so simple. "Buy a 5-speed and stick it in." And they leave out or are vague on all the details about TO sleeves and X-members. But following the Teachings of Ratsun, you will be the Datsun trans swap expert in all of WV.

 

I believe all the pilot bushings are the same diameter. Compare your clutch alignment tool to the trans input shaft to be sure. If they are the same dia. and the tool fits in, then the tranny will ( but not as easily).

 

Here is a How To in posting pics: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/691-how-to-post-pictures-and-keep-online-photo-albums/

 

Len

[lg2]

Len you don't know how fustrated I've been. Then again you do (you took the motor out). That sounds more complicated lol. I've been on Ratsun all day looking at other people's projects ("opp"naughty by nature). I really appreciate your patients with me Len. I'm learning a lot. I'll be bugging you later I'm sure lol..

 

lg2

[LenRobertson]

Couple more quick thoughts. Maybe you seen these if you've been reading old posts.

 

Unplugging the neutral safety switch from the auto trans kills power to the coil. You need to make a jumper wire to go across this plug, or cut the plug off and splice the wire.

 

I don't know if you have installed clutch and brake pedals yet. One of the through bolts the pedal arms pivot on (95% sure it is the one for the brake pedal) uses a backward thread. So you turn it clockwise to loosen, not counter clockwise like a normal thread. I've read of guys breaking this bolt off thinking they were loosening it. As I recall, with a wrench pointed down toward the floor, you pull back toward the seat to loosen both.

 

Len

[lg2]

I'm not sure what exactly you want me to do but I have installed everything except the tranny and drive shaft. The only other thing I have to do is finish cutting the hole. I did not want to cut too much. I also will need to bleed the line.

I did cut the wire though on the tranny because it had a plug on it that was circular. What car would use that kind of plug? Circular with 6 pins instead of 4. Of course our plug is square. You said I need to make a jump I'm not really sure what you mean by that.

I did not hook up those push button with two wires from each pedal. There were wires that connected to the right on auto pedal assembly do those now connect to the clutch pedal wires?

lg2

[LenRobertson]

I was falling asleep last night, so didn't explain things as well as I should have. It sounds like you are way ahead of me as far as having the pedals, clutch master cylinder, and everything installed. The push button with two wires at the pedal sounds like your brake light switch. You do want that installed and working. I believe you just use what was there for the automatic trans brake pedal, although you may need to adjust the switch position slightly.

 

What I meant by jumping the wire for the neutral safety switch is making a short jumper wire with crimp-on bullet ends to push into the plug from the wiring harness that originally went into the neutral safety switch on the side of the auto trans. If you cut that plug off from the harness, you need to splice the wires together so you have power to your coil when the ignition key is ON. Turn your key to ON (not Start), and use your test light to see if you have power to the coil. If you don't, it is probably cause the wires down to the tranny aren't hooked up. With the key still on, find the wire down at the tranny that is powered, then hook it to whichever wire gives you power to the coil. I'm not as clear as I could be, cause I can't quite remember all the wires and plugs on my '72, and it may be slightly different than your car anyway. I think I had a plug with four wires going into the auto trans. Two of those were for the neutral safety switch, and those were the ones I put a jumper wire across, to complete the circuit from the key to the coil. I think the back-up lights were a separate two-wire plug going into another place on the trans case. If you have power to you coil, and the engine starts, ignore all this info. But if you end up with no spark, it is probably an open circuit at the neutral safety switch wires.

 

As to the X-member, once you get the trans bolted up to the engine and blocked up as high as it will go, flip your auto cross member side to side and see what you need to do as far as slotting the holes to be able to bolt it to the floor. You need to saw out the center of the cross member, lower that section about an inch, maybe more, and weld it back together. I'm a lousy welder, so I used 1" spacers to space my whole cross member down from the floor of the car. It worked okay, but was a lot of dickin' around getting the right length studs and some other issues. I drove my local parts guy nuts. I'm surprised he didn't throw me out after a few exchanges of different length metric studs.

 

I think before I install another trans in a car (at least if I'm by myself), I will rent, borrow, or buy a trans jack. I suspect the reason you can't get yours to fit into the clutch is you aren't going exactly straight into the back of the engine. With a trans jack, you can adjust the height of the front and back independently of each other, so getting it at the right position to go straight into the clutch. I've even thought of making a platform with casters on each corner, and two Datsun scissors jacks on top - one for the front of the trans, and one for the rear. The jacks are plenty strong to lift a trans, since they car lift the whole side of the car. Toyota and others make the same type jack, so they are easy to find at junkyards.

 

I hope you have a good day working on the car. And that you figured out the clutch sleeve thing from my rambling explanation.

 

Len

[lg2]

I did not even notice any rambling lol. Oh I won't be playing with the car today lol.. Do you know if the 200sx tranny wiring has a circular plug on it. As far as the 4 wires. Yes I took it off the auto tranny. I figured with that they have the same colors in pairs. Unless what you're saying that's a bad idea. Because I could mess something up like the coil? I also though about if knew where that 6 pinned plug came from that would make it a for sure on the sleeve. I don't want to to keep spending money you know. Yeah I've looked for stores that would rent a tranny adaptor but no use lol. Everything seems to be lined up. All I need is a few inches. It lines up with the firing wall holes.

Random question I have a 240z steering wheel (wood grain) any ideas on how that will fit? A friend gave it to me when I had a Z but I got rid of it and kept the wheel because I think it's really nice. He said he could never get it to fit in his car (510).

 

lg2