200 SX

[lg2]

Yours may turn out a little different.....he has a 81-83 280z 5spd. using a cut 4spd x-member. And I'm not sure what your x-member looks like, thats why we like PICTURES...:P

The drop on this one is about 2 inches..... Are you doing the welding or taking it somewhere..?

[/quote

 

Im taking it somewhere.. I do not weld. The X member is from an auto 71 510 datsun ;).. You wait H5 when I get the net back your going to be like damn chill on the pictures. Your going to say you don't have to take a picutre of everything lol. You wait in see. :)

 

lg2

[ggzilla]

Yes, the difference in sleeves is small, but so is the range of clutch adjustment. Typically it's only 5/16" on the outside, and a smaller amount inside on the small end of the lever.

[LenRobertson]

Can you put all those previous steps in order.. The hole size would be nice.. All the way up to putting in the driveshaft lol.. If it's not too much to ask for :).. Thanks for considering. Oh and the tranny is rare around here lol $200.00 included shipping.. I'd find more 280z then 510's on this side of the world.

 

lg2

 

Thanks Len

 

Finally measured the shifter hole in my '72 4-door. From the lower face of the heater box, where all the little holes are, to the cross pin that holds the shifter lever (in neutral), measures 9 1/8". My hole is about 2 1/2" diameter - too small it looks like to me. Probably needs to be at least 3" dia, and I suspect the factory manual trans hole was bigger than that. I'll try to look at one of the 510s at work tomorrow, and check the hole size. I think one of them was an original manual trans car. The size of the shifter boot and ring you use may give you an idea what hole size you need.

 

Remember it is possible my 9 1/8" might not work for your wagon. If there was a change in the shape of the heater box or firewall or something, it might screw you up. If you drill a hole at 9 1/8", then measure from there to the back of your block, and compare to tranny length, you can tell if that is where your hole should be.

 

Len

[lg2]

The FS5W63A dogleg is a nice strong 5 speed tranny for an L16, even an L18. An L20B is pushing it but adequate when used in a light car. The dogleg isn't 'weak' but you can use it with a motor that has been 'hopped up' and exceede it's capabilities. If rebuilt or in great shape and if regularly maintained and not ignored or abused, they will last a long time. No it wouldn't be wise to use it with a forced induction motor.

 

The number 63 is the distance in mm between the main and counter shafts inside it and derermines the maximum diameter (and size and strength) of the gears and bearings you can use. An FS5W71B has space for much larger bearings and stronger gears for example.

 

 

I follow you on what i can use it for but... I have no clue what your talking about on those numbers. I wanted to know the distance from the heater to the shifter :). So I can make my cut. That way I do not have to put that thing in two times :).

 

lg2

[LenRobertson]

I follow you on what i can use it for but... I have no clue what your talking about on those numbers. I wanted to know the distance from the heater to the shifter :). So I can make my cut. That way I do not have to put that thing in two times :).

 

lg2

 

Guys like me who only know a little about Datsuns have to refer to transmissions as "Dogleg", or "Out of a Z", or "Truck tranny". Guys like datzenmike are able to use the proper designation like "FS5W63A". I dream of being able to think like that, but I'm afraid I'm losing brain cells too fast. I have to carry a little cheat sheet in my pocket when I go to Pull n Save. It lists the common cylinder heads by number, so I have some idea what head a Datsun there has. I should at least be able to remember the number of the late L20 smog head, since that is pretty common, but nope, I even have to look that one up. And cylinder heads only have three letters/numbers to deal with. So me thinking in terms like "FS5W63A" is pretty hopeless. But lg2, you are probably young enough to be educating yourself properly in Datsun terminology. When you get your goon 5-speeded and drive out to Canby next year, datzenmike can quiz you. Yes, you will be tested on all this!

 

I looked at the shifter hole in the floor of couple of parts cars at work yesterday. It is much bigger than I thought, and kind of an odd shape - like an elongated oval, about 4" wide by about 6 1/2" long. However, unless you have the right size boot and ring to cover a hole this size and shape, you probably don't want/need to go this big. I suppose it is big to give access to the pin that holds the shift lever.

 

Len

[lg2]

Thank you all for your help. I got the kit but I just got the TO with no sleeve.. Plus I'm still having problems with it sliding in the crank. Is there something doing wrong? Do I need to do anything with the motor? Len I'm going to wait to cut I think that will be my best bet.. But I will take a line from H5 can I get a picture of the hole lol :)..

 

lg2

[LenRobertson]

Thank you all for your help. I got the kit but I just got the TO with no sleeve.. Plus I'm still having problems with it sliding in the crank. Is there something doing wrong? Do I need to do anything with the motor? Len I'm going to wait to cut I think that will be my best bet.. But I will take a line from H5 can I get a picture of the hole lol :)..

 

lg2

 

Did you get the kit for a '77-'79 200SX? I'm still not 100% sure that is right, but my best guess is that will be happy with your dogleg. I've never swapped the TO bearing off the sleeve. I imagine the bearing is on there kinda snug. Maybe someone can tell you how easy/hard it is to get off. If it is difficult to get off without a press, you might get along just using your old bearing, as long as it doesn't sound dry when you spin it. But if you have a new bearing sitting there, it would be nice to change it.

 

I still think the reason the tranny isn't going in is just a matter of not going in quite straight. As I said before, it not only can be a bitch, it is almost guaranteed to be, especially if you are by yourself. If your clutch alignment tool is the same dimensions as the input shaft on the tranny, it pretty much has to go in. An idea you might try - block the tranny up on a square of plywood or a couple of 2X4s or something. You need two stacks of blocks so you can adjust the front and rear of the tranny so both the height and angle to the rear of the block are perfect.With it blocked up, you can feel or measure the gap between the front of the trans and back of block. The gap must be even all the way around. Underneath the plywood or whatever you use for a base, you need to put a couple of rollers - water pipe, wooden broom sticks, straight exhaust pipe. The dogleg doesn't weight much, so almost anything would work. Four soup cans might do it. The rollers will let you slide the tranny & blocks back and forth easily. If you don't have enough blocks, use some of your old school books! lol. You might want to nail a couple of short 1X2s or plywood scraps on the top block to keep the bottom of the tranny from tipping sideways.

 

Wife just called Dinner. More later.

 

Len

[lg2]

Did you get the kit for a '77-'79 200SX? I'm still not 100% sure that is right, but my best guess is that will be happy with your dogleg. I've never swapped the TO bearing off the sleeve. I imagine the bearing is on there kinda snug. Maybe someone can tell you how easy/hard it is to get off. If it is difficult to get off without a press, you might get along just using your old bearing, as long as it doesn't sound dry when you spin it. But if you have a new bearing sitting there, it would be nice to change it.

 

I still think the reason the tranny isn't going in is just a matter of not going in quite straight. As I said before, it not only can be a bitch, it is almost guaranteed to be, especially if you are by yourself. If your clutch alignment tool is the same dimensions as the input shaft on the tranny, it pretty much has to go in. An idea you might try - block the tranny up on a square of plywood or a couple of 2X4s or something. You need two stacks of blocks so you can adjust the front and rear of the tranny so both the height and angle to the rear of the block are perfect.With it blocked up, you can feel or measure the gap between the front of the trans and back of block. The gap must be even all the way around. Underneath the plywood or whatever you use for a base, you need to put a couple of rollers - water pipe, wooden broom sticks, straight exhaust pipe. The dogleg doesn't weight much, so almost anything would work. Four soup cans might do it. The rollers will let you slide the tranny & blocks back and forth easily. If you don't have enough blocks, use some of your old school books! lol. You might want to nail a couple of short 1X2s or plywood scraps on the top block to keep the bottom of the tranny from tipping sideways.

 

Wife just called Dinner. More later.

 

Len

 

 

I have no clue what your talking about Len lol... But I'll try it with a friend... After that I may just have take it in cause it makes no sense for the car to just sit. You know? Looks like I may be eating cracks and peanut butter for a while lol..

Yes I did get my kit. The TO seems to spin around easily..

lg2

[lg2]

Even looks like stocker wheel discs on it too.

 

 

It is.. Thx I still can't drive it though..

 

lg2

[LenRobertson]

I have no clue what your talking about Len lol... But I'll try it with a friend... After that I may just have take it in cause it makes no sense for the car to just sit. You know? Looks like I may be eating cracks and peanut butter for a while lol..

Yes I did get my kit. The TO seems to spin around easily..

lg2

 

Ha, I often confuse myself! If I do a pic of the blocks-on-rollers idea, can you see it on your phone, or if I post it here? Or I can email direct to you. Maybe by the time I do that, you will have the tranny in. If you can shoot pics of the front of your trans and rear of engine and email them to me, I might see something out of place, although I doubt it. But I'm getting excited for you to get that tranny in. I was hoping you would get this long weekend with free time enough to finish it! But I'm never getting enough done on my cars, so I know the reality of that.

 

Len

[lg2]

Ha, I often confuse myself! If I do a pic of the blocks-on-rollers idea, can you see it on your phone, or if I post it here? Or I can email direct to you. Maybe by the time I do that, you will have the tranny in. If you can shoot pics of the front of your trans and rear of engine and email them to me, I might see something out of place, although I doubt it. But I'm getting excited for you to get that tranny in. I was hoping you would get this long weekend with free time enough to finish it! But I'm never getting enough done on my cars, so I know the reality of that.

 

Len

 

240-401-4576 would be directly to my phone lol...MMS

 

lg2

[datzenmike]

Guys like me who only know a little about Datsuns have to refer to transmissions as "Dogleg", or "Out of a Z", or "Truck tranny". Guys like datzenmike are able to use the proper designation like "FS5W63A". I dream of being able to think like that, but I'm afraid I'm losing brain cells too fast. I have to carry a little cheat sheet in my pocket when I go to Pull n Save. It lists the common cylinder heads by number, so I have some idea what head a Datsun there has. I should at least be able to remember the number of the late L20 smog head, since that is pretty common, but nope, I even have to look that one up. And cylinder heads only have three letters/numbers to deal with. So me thinking in terms like "FS5W63A" is pretty hopeless. But lg2, you are probably young enough to be educating yourself properly in Datsun terminology. When you get your goon 5-speeded and drive out to Canby next year, datzenmike can quiz you. Yes, you will be tested on all this!

 

I looked at the shifter hole in the floor of couple of parts cars at work yesterday. It is much bigger than I thought, and kind of an odd shape - like an elongated oval, about 4" wide by about 6 1/2" long. However, unless you have the right size boot and ring to cover a hole this size and shape, you probably don't want/need to go this big. I suppose it is big to give access to the pin that holds the shift lever.

 

Len

 

Len there's nothing wrong with cheat sheets, you do what you need to do to get it right.

 

 

 

.

 

I wright shit down all the time. If you use it enough you start seeing trannys as 63As and 71Bs.

[LenRobertson]

Len there's nothing wrong with cheat sheets, you do what you need to do to get it right.

 

I wright shit down all the time. If you use it enough you start seeing trannys as 62As and 71Bs.

 

Ahhh, nooo! Another of my illusions destroyed. All this time I assumed datzenmike carried his vast store of Datsun knowledge around in his head. I guess it is okay for me to quit trying to remember things like head numbers. A spiral notebook is a great idea. I have Datsun notes scattered all over, and often can't find them when I need to.

 

lg2 - Gonna try to get my wife to send a pic from her phone to yours. No idea if it will work or not. She is a serious amateur photographer, but has a block when it comes to using the camera in her phone. Of course I have a block about cell phones, so we all have our quirks.

 

I'll try to get you a pic of the shifter hole in one of the 510s at work, but it will be a couple of days. Maybe someone else can post one first. I wonder how many Ratsun 510s are sitting around with no tranny, or at least no shift boot?

 

Len

[lg2]

Ahhh, nooo! Another of my illusions destroyed. All this time I assumed datzenmike carried his vast store of Datsun knowledge around in his head. I guess it is okay for me to quit trying to remember things like head numbers. A spiral notebook is a great idea. I have Datsun notes scattered all over, and often can't find them when I need to.

 

lg2 - Gonna try to get my wife to send a pic from her phone to yours. No idea if it will work or not. She is a serious amateur photographer, but has a block when it comes to using the camera in her phone. Of course I have a block about cell phones, so we all have our quirks.

 

I'll try to get you a pic of the shifter hole in one of the 510s at work, but it will be a couple of days. Maybe someone else can post one first. I wonder how many Ratsun 510s are sitting around with no tranny, or at least no shift boot?

 

Len

 

 

Ok kool thx. Happy holidays..

 

lg2

[LenRobertson]

Bad news on the pics, at least for awhile. I set up the redneck tranny jack with blocks and the wife's camera was dead. Camera is charging now, but the wife took off for the afternoon. I'll see what I can do taking pics and posting when I get a charge. But digital cameras usually outwit me. Give me a FILM camera - a Nikon, or Hasselblad, or Speed Graphic, and I get along fine.

 

The good news is the tranny on blocks and rollers idea seems to work a treat (as the Brits say). Roll the rascal back and forth with one finger. But maybe in the real world, there will be a flaw in the idea. You can be the test pilot or guinea pig for the idea.

 

Len

[lg2]

Ahhh, nooo! Another of my illusions destroyed. All this time I assumed datzenmike carried his vast store of Datsun knowledge around in his head. I guess it is okay for me to quit trying to remember things like head numbers. A spiral notebook is a great idea. I have Datsun notes scattered all over, and often can't find them when I need to.

 

lg2 - Gonna try to get my wife to send a pic from her phone to yours. No idea if it will work or not. She is a serious amateur photographer, but has a block when it comes to using the camera in her phone. Of course I have a block about cell phones, so we all have our quirks.

 

I'll try to get you a pic of the shifter hole in one of the 510s at work, but it will be a couple of days. Maybe someone else can post one first. I wonder how many Ratsun 510s are sitting around with no tranny, or at least no shift boot?

 

Len

 

 

Ok Len I got it in much better with 2 ppl... I'm an only child what can I say lol... I want it when I want which is always NOW lol... The only thing is I put it in without the pressure plate and clutch lol... So we'll see soon... Maybe 2morrow if I stay in town...

I had some ideas of what I'd like to do once I get it up and running... My next project I want to rebuild a motor lol :) I know crawl b4 you walk but I'm a sprinter anyway. I have a few books on rebuild. So Datsunmike can I borrow your spiral lol.

So is it the L18 or L20? What kind of carb? Datsunmike you said L18 with the dogleg right. I'd want to be more quick then anything :)... Also for now no supercharger or turbos that would just complicate things for sure... If you could give some prices please so I can start saving my pennies :)...

 

lg2

[datzenmike]

Ahhh, nooo! Another of my illusions destroyed. All this time I assumed datzenmike carried his vast store of Datsun knowledge around in his head.

Len

 

Well that's years of research, (personal experience on my own Datsuns) reading posts, some cross checking and just keeping track of little snipits of info. Rather than trying to find/research something all over again I wrote some stuff down where I can refer to it just to be sure. Lots of stuff is in my head from repeats and couldn't get it out if I tried.

[LenRobertson]

So here is a pic of what I was trying to explain to lg2:

 

 

A scrap of plywood with blocks on top to support the trans. Two stacks of blocks let you adjust the height and the angle relative to the rear of the engine. In the pic, the odd shaped thing at the top of the rear stack is a splitting wedge for fire wood. Using a wedge allows fine tuning of the height. Then under the plywood platform are a couple of round things that allow the whole pile to easily roll up to the back of the engine. In the pic, I used a piece of 1/2" water pipe, and a piece of broom handle, cause that is what I found laying around. Plastic pipe works great. I've moved a 1500 pound G&E metal shaper using 3/4" steel pipe for rollers. If you go any distance, you need 3 rollers, so you can move one in front of the platform before it rolls completely off the back roller.

 

Short on blocks? No more than a tranny weighs, almost anything will block it up. If you can stay out of the Mountain Dew until the job is done:

 

 

I suspect it would work better to block the front to the height of the rear of the engine, then use a Datsun scissors jack in place of the rear blocks. The jack would make it easier to fine tune the height. You will need more blocks than in the pics if the car is jacked up much.

 

A floor jack might be quicker and easier, if you have two people. But I've found it is a real juggling act to balance the tranny on a floor jack and keep it at the right angle while rolling it into the clutch. And not everyone has a floor jack. You can dumpster dive and find blocks and pipe for rollers.

 

On a side note - I took these pics, downloaded them, ran them through GIMP to crop and reduce file size, moved them to Flickr, then posted them here. All without my wife around to help. Those of you who do this all the time will say "So what?", but for a techphobe like me, this is akin to discovering Fire. lol Now if I can just remember everything I did the next time I need to do it. The one thing I'm not going to try is sending the images to lg2 on his phone. I've already blown plenty of brain cells for one day.

 

Len

[ggzilla]

I just lie under the Datsun and heft it up into place. It's not very heavy...

That's a 4-speed, it is the only one that has a pan on the bottom.

[LenRobertson]

I just lie under the Datsun and heft it up into place. It's not very heavy...

That's a 4-speed, it is the only one that has a pan on the bottom.

 

Yeah, that works well, if you get under there in the right position. I did it that way when I was younger. Now I'm old n slow n lazy, so I try not to lift things heavier than 12 ounce cans.

 

Len

[lg2]

Ggzilla I have a 5speed... If the lbs was even all the around it would be no problem lol. Plus I hate lifting lol. I even hated it in my high school days. But anyway I've tried doin all that but I don't seem to line it up right so I've learned two ppl are charm. I just now need to widen the hole a little bit more.

Thanks 4 the pics also Len :). I miss film photograph too. I took a film photography class in high school. It was one of my favorite classes..

 

lg2

[LenRobertson]

lg2 - So, do you plan to celebrate the holiday today by getting your tranny in? If you play with your clutch alignment tool, you will see what a snug fit it is through the clutch disc, and how straight it must go in to go through both the clutch splines and the pilot bushing in the crankshaft. It doesn't matter how you lift the trans into place, the important thing is to get the trans front shaft heading through the clutch really straight.

 

Did you jack up and block the front of your engine? I have a feeling you must do that to clear the firewall before the trans will go in straight. In post #2 of this thread, datzenmike said "Try to drop the rear of the engine by jacking up on the front of the oil pan with a block of wood. You may also have to loosen the exhaust down pipe and the throttle linkage to allow movement." Thinking back, that may be why I struggled getting the tranny onto my L20b. I believe I had the front of the engine raised, but maybe not enough. I didn't have anything hooked up on the engine, so it was pretty easy to pull the engine again and bolt the tranny on. I just felt stupid doing it that way. But the weather was getting colder, I was getting mad, and the way I did it worked. But since you have everything hooked up to your engine, DON'T think about doing it that way. A little more trying, and your trans will slip right in (easy for me to say!).

 

Len

[lg2]

Anyone? The tranny goes in but not quiet exatly up on the thin plate. Should I just bolt it up from here. It does not matter how hard you push it in it does not go in any further. Please do not ask if it's aligned because I made sure it was by using the tool.

 

lg2

[LenRobertson]

Anyone? The tranny goes in but not quiet exatly up on the thin plate. Should I just bolt it up from here. It does not matter how hard you push it in it does not go in any further. Please do not ask if it's aligned because I made sure it was by using the tool.

 

lg2

 

lg2 - I got your PM yesterday, but had a meeting last night and couldn't answer. I'll reply here, and post the pic you sent. Maybe someone will see something or have an idea.

 

 

I can't quite tell how close you are to going in, but my guess is the trans shaft is through the clutch disc splines, and the nose of the shaft is right up to the pilot bushing in the back of the crank. I suppose there is a really slim chance the pilot bushing is smaller than the trans shaft. When you used the alignment tool, are you sure it slipped quite a distance into the bushing, not just to the start of the hole? I hate to ask about things you know you did right, but I have no way of knowing. If you happen to have the trans away from the engine far enough to reach the nose, measure to be sure the diameter of the trans nose is exactly the same as the alignment tool. The fit in the pilot bushing is pretty snug, so if the bushing is even a little undersize it won't go.

 

What I really think is you must not be coming straight in with the trans. I can't remember if you posted that you jacked up the front of the engine. Even if you did, you may need to loosen the motor mounts and raise it a little more (as datzenmike recommended). And maybe loosen or unhook the exhaust pipe, both to let the engine tilt up more, and to get the exhaust away from the side of the trans, just in case it is not letting you get straight to the block. It is really hard to tell for sure when under the car just how straight in you are. Being sure the trans clears both the firewall and exhaust gives more room to move the trans around trying to get it straight.

 

If there is a way to get the clutch hooked up and bled, when you get the tranny in as close as it looks in the pic, you could have your buddy push down on the clutch pedal while you push against the trans. Sometimes this trick lets the pilot align itself with the bushing. But if it doesn't, you will need to realign the clutch.

 

There are a couple of dowels on the rear of the block that slip into holes in the tranny bellhousing, but in the pic, I don't think you are close enough that these could be the problem. But it may be worth checking. I suppose there could be something weird with wrong size dowels. Never hears of such a thing, but I'm far from knowing all about this stuff.

 

As to your question about a temp rigging of the X-member to get it to the shop - yeah, you probably can if you are careful. The usual recommendation for lowering the X-member is 1 inch. If you don't get it that low, I suspect the tranny case will be thumping the floor of the car. But to get it to the shop, you might get by with thinner spacers (and probably need longer bolts to be safe). You will probably still need to turn the member around 180 degrees, and slot the holes. I don't know when guys cut and weld the auto member if they do the flip and slot. Another maybe not-so-safe idea would be cut a scrap of plywood for a rear trans mount, in place of the original rubber one. Probably still should drill the ply and bolt the trans down, even for a short trip. One of the methods of dropping the rear of the trans is using shorter BMW trans rubber mounts on the stock Datsun X-member, so a thinner wood mount might get you the 10 miles or so to the welders.

 

Keep posting how things are going. I'm hoping someone else will have a brilliant idea.

 

Len

[ggzilla]

Yep, loosen the motor mounts and tip the back of the engine down. That solved similar problems for me.

 

The other thing to do is remove the clutch, then see if the transmission will go on the way in. If not, it is a not a clutch alignment issue (probably would be a pilot bushing issue).