Recommendations for L series engine break in

[motavated]

I just bought some non detergent motor oil 30 weight. But I read this type of oil is for really old cars. Pre 1960 and stuff. So what is best? Detergent motor or non for a proper engine break in?

 

Also! What is best? Take it easy on the engine during break in or just plain racing in. Reading online and many people have different ideas. Not much on L series and Nissan engines though.

 

I also bought Zinc Additive. Should I add this during engine break in? I want to add it for the cam.

 

I also read that Rotella 15w30 is also a good engine break in oil. Any advice is greatly appreciated... Thanks!

[datzenmike]

Non detergent oil is for early 50's and older motors that did not have oil pumps and relied on splash oiling. You wanted the dirt to settle out and sink to the bottom of the pan so it would not get on wear surfaces and bearings. The dirt was usually flushed out with the oil changes which were more numerous than today.

 

Newer cars with oil pumps can use a filter and so you do want dirt suspended in the oil so it can be filtered out. Fewer oil changes, cleaner bearings and motors.

 

Do not use non detergent oil! Do not use synthetic oil during the break in period. Use what ever oil you plan to use later unless synthetic. Seeing as how you are going to change the oil at least twice in the first 500 miles get a couple of gallons of cheap 40W diesel oil.

 

 

 

When breaking in a new motor you want the rings thrust hard against the rough cylinder walls. The rings and walls will abrade each other and remove high and low spots forming a tight leak free seal that contains the high pressure gasses above them. The first 20 miles are significant for forming this tight seal and if done properly will provide a stronger higher compression motor with longer life. Long ago it was proper to baby a motor like our fathers and grand fathers did, but today's motors are different with better rings and block materials. Doing so today can delay proper break in of the rings and they never seal as well as they could have.

 

The best way to force the rings into contact with the cylinder walls is acceleration under load. Do NOT drive at steady speeds or lug the motor. Neither should you rev it beyond reason while breaking it it. As soon as you can get out and drive it, (assuming oil pressure is fine, water temp and cooling system are fine, ignition timing is set and there are no strange sounds) do so. Change gears constantly and vary your speed. Get out on the highway where it is safe to accelerate at 3/4 throttle in 3 and 4th gear to say 5K (maybe less in 4th gear depending on the speed limit) and let off and slow down without breaking to 2K followed by acceleration and slow down. Try a couple of these and listen for any signs there is any problem with the new rebuild. Keep an eye on the temp and oil pressure gauges. It is important to decelerate as much as accelerate so no long up hill climbs. Acceleration forces the tings in contact with the cylinder walls and 'wears them'. Deceleration allows oil to work up to and lube the rings and flush away any microscopic metal particles. Now switch to full throttle and repeat at least 20-30 times keeping constant watch for any signs of problems. Change oil and filter when you get home. Assuming all is fine, drive the next 500 or so miles with lots of gear changes, avoid steady speed driving on the highway or in town, do not lug the motor at low speeds (low oil pressure), accelerate often. Change the oil and filter and drive normally.

[Logical1]

Thanks for the great how-to on engine break-in Mike :thumbup: Do you have any advice on a turbo engine break-in? What I'm wondering is, should I build my engine and just throw some carbs on for the first several hundred miles, make sure everything is tip top and then attach my turbo set-up or is it ok to break the engine in with the turbo?

[datzenmike]

Yeah I wouldn't run boost till broken in. Maybe set it up for no boost.

[Master-O-Turbonics]

All the race engines I have seen at race shops are fairly similar on their break ins...run at 1500RPMs for ~15 minutes and then at 2200 for another ~15 minutes. H2O and Oil Temps are carefully watched and controlled on a run-in stand.

Then they get put on the dyno and hounded on. If the rings haven't seated by then, they aren't going to seat properly.

[nismo dr]

I think datzenmike originally posted this, really good reading

 

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

[motavated]

Cool. I will return the non detergent back then...

[motavated]

How does Valvoline 30 weight sound like? Diesel oil at the stores now come at lower "diesel saving" weights.. 15w30 fine?

[I'm BLUE]

How does Valvoline 30 weight sound like? Diesel oil at the stores now come at lower "diesel saving" weights.. 15w30 fine?

 

Isn't that non-detergent stuff ^^^ the valvoline 30w ,,, that's what I use in the lawnmower to keep from seizing in the heat :lol:

[motavated]

If its has the api sml for newer engines. I think it should be ok.

[motavated]

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/API.html

[Braden]

hell mike on my new motor ive run it fairly hard, hell my dad wound it out to 6k after its first 60 miles!!! but since then ive gave it hell with no problems, hell i run it like a race car damn near every day, i passed this idiot today and held it wide open in 5th untill i got up to about 80 or 90, then prcedeed to yell "fuck yeah" at the top of my lungs and let off the accelarator to hear the mikunis wind down. god i love l20b's!!! geeze in like a week ive put probably 200 or more miles on it. no problems yet, i guess if i would have forgot to tighten somethin git would have exploded by now.

[Spades]

Just another perspective for anyone reading this thread...

 

I agree 100% with Datzenmike's break in suggestions, and would like to add another side note to that...if you are like me and flog the piss out of your engine regularly, do not follow what some people suggest and baby the motor. If your engine is going to see 5k RPM's occasionally, do NOT keep low RPM's when breaking in the engine. Not only will the rings not seat properly as Mike mentioned, but you have your valve train to consider as well.

 

Now, for the other perspective. I would recommend using a semi synthetic oil like Chevron's Delo. Why? because it has zinc in it. Most modern oils have removed zinc from their oils, but zinc is nice for keeping wear on you camshaft down. Newer cars are less prone to needing a zinc additive because of the materials used, but in older cars, zinc can help with valve train wear. Some of the fleet companies I have been in contact with use it on all their vehicles, from diesels to gas motors, and with regular services see service lives well after 250,000 miles on Ford's and Dodges driven by people who flog the piss out of them.

 

 

Regardless of the oil brand, I suggest staying away from a full synthetic for the first 10k miles. change the oil shortly after start up and the first pull(change it after a few miles of the first test drive or dyno pull), then change it again after another 500 miles. After that you can go to the normal 3k interval. I know it seems nice to just put a synthetic oil in and change the oil at 5k+, but I would advise against it. You will get sludge build up most of the time, you will have the chemical properties of the oil change, and will be more prone to engine wear and leaks from gaskets in the long run.

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

Whatever you do, DO NOT go cheap on the oil filter!!! As in, do not buy a fram or other cheap-o oil filters. Go with Wix or Hasting's filters if you can...I hear products from Amsoil and Royal Purple are also top notch, although I have not used one yet or cut one open.

[motavated]

I think I will use regular motor oil with some zinc additive. And push it kind a hard. I never push it over 5k anyways.

[datzenmike]

Synthetic oil may lube too well and prolong the normal break in. Use a good cheap oil for this. Once broken in swap to synthetic oil if that's your intent. A new rebuilt engine with close tolerances and tight gaskets and seals should be fine. I wouldn't use any additives in my oil, I don't care what they claim. Find an oil with it already in. Amsol ? is supposed to be good. Most diesel oils have large quantities of ZDDT in it but is extremely detergent compared to gas engine oils. I've used diesel for years in my old L20B and seemed to be fine. On really old motors it will remove ALL carbon deposits including the ones sealing the rings and oil consumption may go up, but on a new motor this may be OK?

[Spades]

Synthetic oil may lube too well and prolong the normal break in. Use a good cheap oil for this. Once broken in swap to synthetic oil if that's your intent. A new rebuilt engine with close tolerances and tight gaskets and seals should be fine. I wouldn't use any additives in my oil, I don't care what they claim. Find an oil with it already in. Amsol ? is supposed to be good. Most diesel oils have large quantities of ZDDT in it but is extremely detergent compared to gas engine oils. I've used diesel for years in my old L20B and seemed to be fine. On really old motors it will remove ALL carbon deposits including the ones sealing the rings and oil consumption may go up, but on a new motor this may be OK?

 

Synthetic oil molecules are usually much smaller and have better lubrication properties than conventional motor oils, and as Mike said, they can prolong the break in period. Depending on the gaskets being used, sometimes synthetic oils can have a greater effect on future leaks, because since the molecules are smaller, they can get past gaskets easier...I haven't seen this on a new motor, only when people switched to a synthetic after running conventional oil for 100k+ miles.

 

I am not big on additives, the liquid mechanic in a bottle is usually bogus. Some additives that you will find in oils and fuels can be good though. ZDDP(or any other zinc phosphate engineered additive) is not going to be a miracle additive, but it works well in small quantities to help prevent valve train wear on older cars. In large quantities like any other additives it can cause problems. In high quantities, I wouldn't be worried about zinc dithiophosphate's mild detergent properties myself, I would be more concerned if your vehicle has a catalytic converter, since zinc oil additives can munch through a cat in high quantities...however, the small amount found in Delo isn't enough to cause either issue. If you look at the Delo MSDS sheets, the Zinc content is not nearly as high as most additives you can buy...just enough to do the job without creating havoc.

 

But anyway, most oils you can run in a rebuilt or new motor without a problem...what tends to cause havoc is taking an old motor and changing the type of oil. I haven't seen many good things with "high mileage" oils either. They normally use chemicals to expand the seals to help stop leaks, and in 5 or so oil changes, the gaskets swell back down and the gaskets start barfing oil far worse than before.

[banzai510(hainz)]

I run cheap oil

 

Valvoline

Chevron

Texaco

Quackerstate

 

right now Im runnun Motorcraft deisel oil 15-40

 

 

Motivated

Just run one of those brands and nothing fancy youll be fine.

Mayeb ck the dipstick if you see aluminum (if you forgot to prime the oil pump before start up)

 

I think I only did one oil change .

 

Also I gave the intial 15-30 intial run than ran it like a daily driver. if it goes it goes(BAD),Thats it.Better sooner than later.

 

I personally wouldnt run Synthetic myself.I dont think Datsun had those clearances like the newer cars do. This is just personal thought.

I broke 2 motors with over 150k and one was 190K and the cranks did not need to be turned!!!!! Bores were out but cranks were all good.

[motavated]

I am going to run this. Price is not bad... I will run it hard. THANKS YALL!

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp-Cams/249/1590/10002/-1

[datzenmike]

I guess it won't hurt, but get it out ASAP and run what you plan to run in it after break-in. I don't know this stuff and there are lots of 'snake oil' out there with big claims and are really just ordinary off the shelf motor oil in a different package. All oils have ZDDT in them... just much less in the newer ones.

[Spades]

I run cheap oil

 

Valvoline

Chevron

Texaco

Quackerstate

 

right now Im runnun Motorcraft deisel oil 15-40

 

 

 

I would strongly advise against using Quakerstate motor oil. After Pennzoil bought them out, they changed the formulations. My experiences with it in the last few years have not been good. Motorcraft, Valvoline, Chevron, and Texaco motor oils are all decent. I don't know about the chemical formulation of Motorcraft, but when I worked at Ford, the literature on it seemed nice and I didn't notice it having any ill effects on motors, and seemed to stay clean and not sludge up even when people went 5k+ between oil changes.

[Braden]

any fo you run kendall, isky recommends it for their cams, and i saw a chemical breakdown of it and it has like twice or 3 times the zinc and some other important ingredient than the other oils.

[Spades]

any fo you run kendall, isky recommends it for their cams, and i saw a chemical breakdown of it and it has like twice or 3 times the zinc and some other important ingredient than the other oils.

 

 

Kendall is manufactured by Conoco Philips these days, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. We use Conoco motor oil where I work now, and the synthetic blend seems to hold up well even though some of our customers go 5k+ between oil changes.

 

One thing to note, I couldn't find any information on Kendall's actual additives or percentages of the additives. On their website however, they mention that in their 20w50 motor oil they have large amounts of ZDDP to help with flat tappet camshaft motors and turbos...however, 20w50 is not very practical for most street use cars, and their other oil weights have no claim to contain any extra ZDDP content versus any other normal automotive oils.

 

I will prolly be sticking with Delo.

[hang_510]

i used castrol 0w-10 for the initial breakin. ZDDP added.

about 30 min run time > 2500RPM, changed.

 

castrol 10w30. ZDDP+ added.

drove hard around canby, and here for a total of ~500mi.

changed.

 

castrol 10w30. ZDDP+ added.

will change @ 2000mi.

 

 

redline??? offers a red ZDDP additive, i may try it...

 

 

valves adjusted a few times and the lobes/arms surfaces look good.

[Spades]

here is the deal though, you don't want to be running the motor at a steady RPM during the break in period...I know there are lots of people saying to run the motor between 500 and 3,000 rpm for long periods of time, and low RPM's and constant nonfluctuating RPM's are what you want to avoid.

 

You are trying to "break in" your piston rings and valve train...and steady RPM's are not the best way to accomplish that. All you are doing with low steady RPM is build heat, and keeping the pistons in the same motion so the wear pattern will be consistent...that's the opposite of what you want...you want the engine to go through a full RPM range, making sure that the rings will make as much contact with the cylinder walls as possible, and allowing the valve train to move through more than a constant hum during the break in.

 

I know everyone is fixated on motor oils and additives, but the actual break in process is far more critical than if you Castrol or Havoline motor oil...if you don't believe me, go find a old car that a grandma has driven under 3,000 rpm for 50,000 miles since it was brand new, and tear apart the motor, then compare it to a engine that was properly "broken in"...it does make a difference.

[hang_510]

here is the deal though, the actual break in process is far more critical

:thumbup:

 

 

 

ive gotten those 'old lady' motors before. (old man... bob barkers father ;) )

that nova spun a bearing w/in a year.

 

You are trying to "break in" your piston rings and valve train...

 

All you are doing with low steady RPM is build heat

is this @ me?

 

the initial >2500 rpms, IS to heat everything up to temp, esp the oil.

 

i never suggested to keep it any specific RPM, just above it.

 

 

after that... well, if u saw me @ canby, then youd know that it went from idle to 6500, both days. :)

drove it like a rental!!!

 

i still have a VERY difficult time keeping it 'steady', esp on the commute to work