Dizzy black box replacement

[haubstr]

If for some reason I fried the black box on the side of my dizzy is there any others donors besides either buying a new one or from the typical dizzy donors?

[Pacific coast Datsun]

I found & matchbox on an early Maxima before & of course the EI Z cars have them.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Now Iam going from memory here but in one of my vids that Jeff had @ Canby there was a guy who wired straight from the dizzy(meaning removed the black box and just hooked up the 2 wire from the reluctor and pick up and routed them to remote GM module.

I wonder if you could do that if you sure the black box is bad.

 

I seen soem websites that had these blk box for sale cheap. I dont know how reliable they are or really whats in them. try Rockautocom ect......

[fivetenzen]

I might have one in one of my zillion boxes, I can take a look this weekend and call you - Steve

[hang_510]

the GM HEI module should wire in to perform the same function

[zerow]

I found & matchbox on an early Maxima before & of course the EI Z cars have them.

 

There are two different kinds of black boxes:

 

Hitachi E12-80 is the one for the "typical" black box distributor.

 

Hitachi E12-93 is the found in cars with electronic ignition and a computer controlled ignition.

 

The E12-80s will be found in most Early 280ZXs, as well as late model HLA510s and 200SXs.

The E12-93s will retard your ignition by quite a bit. I wouldn't touch one from a Maxima unless it was for another Maxima, or you've swapped in the computer control.

 

The Black box rarely ever goes out. Have you checked the connection from the box to the distributor body? It must be clean to make good ground. Also, did you check the ground or run a separate ground wire to the distributor body? All these will affect performance. Good Luck!

[kaliboy96]

I have a brand new Electric Dizzy with the e12-80 matchbox its completely refurbished inside and out Ill let it go for $100 if your interested! PM me! Ill send you some pics!

[datzenmike]

I found & matchbox on an early Maxima before & of course the EI Z cars have them.

 

 

NOT ALL. Some 280zx and certainly the later Maxima used a matchbox with a second set of terminals on the lower right hand side.... these won't work!!! Somehow the ECU is involved in setting the advance/retard for emissions. Fella on the realm had one on a regular EI dizzy for an L20B and when revved up it would retard up to 20 degrees. Swapped in the two wire box and it was fine. I think the number to avoid is E 12 93 (I'll check) and any with the second terminals on the lower right side.

[haubstr]

The problem is that we had the truck started and running, but ended up having to change the gaskets because they were wrong(This is on a L20BT 0 Miles on it). When it was reassembled we couldn't get a spark and found out we had power going to both sides of the coil. I haven't had a chance to go back out and check the coil yet, but being that the wires from the black box go to the coil I didn't know if running power to both of the wires on the black box would fry it...

 

I will be back out on the morning checking everything

 

Thanks in advance for the help

[datzenmike]

This is the correct wiring for the matchbox:

 

 

 

This is a box from a Maxima and is an E 12-93 with a second set of terminals on the lower right side. If used on a non EFI engine it will retard up to 20 degrees as the engine revs up. Avoid this type. E 12-80 is the black box you want.

 

 

 

.

[Unclejesse88]

How are you measuring your voltage at the coil? With the coil off and the key on, you will get 12 volts on both sides of the coil because the circuit is open. When the matchbox closes the circuit and turns the coil on you will have 12 volts on one side and ground on the other. Take your test light and put the wire clip end on battery negative, then touch the lamp end to coil negative while cranking. You should get a flashing light, signifying that the coil is turning on and off. If you have your test light hooked up normally, wire clip end to battery negative and light end to coil negative, the light will come on with the coil off, and the light will turn off with the coil on.

[ggzilla]

$20 shipped, I will send you a good Hitachi E12-80. I some distributors with broken advance bearing plates, but the Hitachi unit still good. Last forever. It's the mechanical part that fail. Aftermarket units not as good as Hitachi.

 

See my Matchbox Testing page.

[banzai510(hainz)]

ON Datsuns youll have a 12volt "ON" wire On 510s its the blk/wht. meaning 12volts at the +side of the coil. Its 1 wire. But if you measure the negative side of the coil with your volt meter depending on rotor position you can read voltage cause its just a long PRIMARY wire inside that goes to the neg side of coil.YOu should get less than 12. But really when car us running all this will be higher

 

As as mention above the test light will go ON/OFF on the NEGATIVE side. At least with Point vehicles. I havent trouble shot Matchboxes.I would think If I have it Power correct and its grounded good and get NO SPARK at the coil end its the Matchbox or the reluctor part in the dizzy

[imtb]

I am rebuilding my L2.2 and using a E12-80 dizzy. I am pretty sure I have the dizzy shaft lined up correct at 11:30. I am not sure which way the match box goes in toward the radiator or in the back towards the firewall. When I have it installed towards the firewall it makes the rotor point towards the radiator. and if I flip the dizzy mouont and the black box it towards the raditor it makes the rotor point towards the the firewall.

 

? what side should the black box go on?

 

When it was installed in my L18 the PO had the blackbox was toward the radiator,and the ear of the dizzy mount was pointing toward the radiator, but this was a tight fit with the upper radiator hose. on the L20 I dont think this would be a problem.

 

I just want to make sure I get it correct.

 

Any help please.

[banzai510(hainz)]

imtb

dizzy shaft is in the 11.28 position with crank at TDC zero deg.

 

Now depending how you put the lower housing pedastal(or mount ) will determing Where the the blk box part or better yet the vaccum canister will face. The rotor will still in the same position if it was towards the radiator or towards the fire wall. The dizzy will only lock down in 1 postion. where it lock you will assign this as #1 . then go one 3 4 2 fire order Counter clock wise

 

so its up to YOU where you want the housing. Up front or back. this is done by putting the pedastal on the front cover with the tang(10mm hole for the timming plate to hold down) in front or back(180deg off).

 

be honest this should have come out the same on the l18 as the dizzy dont know the diffeernece in l motor L16/18/20.

But there is a difference in pedasatls from the L16 to the l20 points to the matchbox (2 different Matchboxes)

 

On a certain L20 matchbox I think the vacuum advance is near the thermostat housing to fit correctly.

 

olddatsuns.com has my vid on timming chain install and towards the end I install a cpuple different dizzys to see where they point.

[imtb]

thank you very much Hainz. I just wasnt sure if it mattered on which way the black box was positioned. I am going to pull my oil pump and reclock it just make sure the rotor is pointing at number one.

[banzai510(hainz)]

pull my oil pump and reclock it just make sure the rotor is pointing at number one.

 

 

Well I assume the oil pump is clocked correctly before it was installed. so all you got to do is turn the crank till it comes up to Zero on the crank.If you open the oil cap that lobe should be close to the 10 oc clock position. then you know you have compression stroke.

Then look in where the dizzy goes and it should be 11.28. If it isnt then the oil pump dizzy spindal is instlled wrong.

 

There is a reason why they are installed wrong sometimes!!!!!!.That is the pedastal dont match up with the timming plate for the dizzy or mount. to get the rorot to point to #1.You can tell is when you lock the dizzy down TRYING to point to #1 plug wire you have to crank the dizzy to one side of the timming plate to get it to run

 

But if the dizzy the the pedastal was together from the biginning youll be ok and its EZ.

 

if possible load the vid and catch the ass end of it and youll see.

[imtb]

I have rebuilt my L20 and I installed the oil pump spindle and its really close to the 11:25 pos. but I am going to do it again just to check it since its on the stand. easier then in the car.

 

you sure it doesnt matter if the black box is in the front or rear? I guess thinking about it if the box was seperate from the dizzy just the wires coming out, it wouldnt matter you would just install and where ever the rotor is pointing to number 1 plug wire and go from there.

 

I guess i am making more out of this than there really is.

[banzai510(hainz)]

you sure it doesnt matter if the black box is in the front or rear?

 

well the dizzy dont know if the blackbox in the front or rear it just knows when the reluctor and the pickup meet at the right time that rotor better be pointing on or very near #1 on the cap (the rest you dial in with the timmng plate slot)so the voltage is routed out to the plug.

 

some say dont have blkbox near the exhaust as it gets really hot there. But soemtime the vacuum advance is so close to the thermostat housing it dont look right or might not even fit there if you cant get enought timming adjustment.

 

Dude this is EZ.