pope_face Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Hey, my name is Fil... I live in Vancouver, BC, and I picked up a 1970 L521 back in September. I haven't had a chance to do any work to it, but I'm hoping to tear it apart and rebuild it... And from what I can tell, it can certainly use a little TLC... It's got the J13 with the four-speed. I have no idea how many miles are on it though... the odometer says some six-odd thousand miles, but I have no idea how many times it's rolled over. It runs fairly well though... I'm just having problems with the alternator not charging, and the carb could use a rebuild (or a replacement). I'm hoping to keep the engine, but that ultimately depends on whether or not I can replace the clutch pedal with a hand clutch... Too many problems for me and the foot pedal... I don't have pictures, but I'll take some tommorow as it should be nice and sunny. I do, however, have a few questions... Does anyone know a relatively inexpensive yet effective way of making the clutch hand operated vs foot operated? The only real requirement I have is that the clutch be operated from the gear shift stalk (possibly with a motorcycle clutch lever or something similar) and not require too much effort to apply. I'm considering eliminating the master cylinder and using a power steering pump or small hydraulic pump instead, then using a valve or series of valves to adjust the pressure going to the slave cylinder... I've also considered using a motorcycle lever attached to the master cylinder by one or a series of cables, using a power brake booster to reduce the amount of force needed on the lever... Or, even replacing the master cylinder with a power brake booster and brake master cylinder combination, and running that to a clutch lever... Anyone have any ideas on that? Getting custom hydraulic lines or cables or whatnot isn't an issue, as there's a shop here that I often visit for work for that very reason... so it's just a matter of getting a working plan... Fil Quote Link to comment
datsun dreamer Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Welcome to the forum:D Cant wait to see pictures of your truck! Quote Link to comment
tnip Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 as cool as all that sounds why not consider an auto? or if that's not something you want to do, instead of this manual clutch, what about those electronic shifters? altho i think they are only applicable to sequential shifters. welcome, i also would love to see pics of your ride. not really that many 521's here. Quote Link to comment
pope_face Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I have nothing against autos, but I just like the idea of having a manual transmission... as for an electronic shifter, I'm not quite sure what you mean... I don't think I've heard of them before. Ideally, I'd love a semi-auto... I had one in a little Honda I had a while ago... Slow off the mark, but it was tiny and agile, and had alright power up in the powerband... I remember going up a mountain doing 75 km/h (40 mph ish, I think...) in first gear with the engine sitting at just below 8,000 rpm... I suppose if I can't sort out the hand clutch I'll have to get an auto... I'd rather have a Dat I can drive rather than a useless four speed. The only thing is, I don't think there were any automatic transmissions for the J-series... so I'd have to get an L-series. Am I wrong on that, or is that the way it is? Or... ideally, were there any semi-auto transmissions for either the J- or the L-series? Or, any way to modify just the clutch so it's automatic, and keep the manual shifting? Or modify an automatic transmission into a semi-auto? Quote Link to comment
tnip Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 after thinking about it more i think the only electronic shifters are for sequential trannys... now that you mention the semi auto, it would be really cool, and quite an upgrade in power, to throw a newer motor and tranny in there. i know there is a tranny for the vq35 that is a semi auto, my cousins altima (which is fwd i know) has a version of that. i'm just thinking, by the time you get a motor and transmission and spend the time or money (whether you're gonna do it yourself or take it to a shop) you would almost be better off getting a much newer motor and matching tranny that does just what you want it to. it will be a little more expensive obviously, but you'll be more likely to end up with a much better transmission, and you'll be upgrading in the process. and then if you do a disc brake conversion, on the front at least, you'll be sittin in a pretty nicely updated ride that's got plenty of power, is still safe and has the tranny you want. Quote Link to comment
pope_face Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Mmm, I know what you mean about the new semi-autos... the new Nissans have the Tiptronic shifters... that would be pretty cool. However, getting the engine to fit might be a bit of a hassle... I'm planning on doing most of the work myself, and I don't exactly have the gear (or the space, or inclination) to do such a major swap. Besides, I'm not much for newer engines... I appreciate what they can do for most people, but my current DD has a FI engine (the only one I've owned) and I hate it... I like the simplicity of the J-series, and I'm a carb guy at heart... Quote Link to comment
kiznook Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 there's an article somewhere, a guy did a full paddle shift on a 510, I think it was a wagon. really sweet setup too, I'll keep looking for it Quote Link to comment
tnip Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 well idk about how much would be involved in converting from efi to carb, that would be interesting. the fitment isn't really much of an issue, you can fit a sbc in there without much issue. i was just thinking you'd end up with a motor that's actually got replacement parts you can buy at a local parts store, or anywhere for that matter, and you could have the tranny you really want. kiznook- is the nissan tiptronic a paddle? my cousin's altima (yes fwd i know it's not the same necessarily) has the semi auto and it's just on the shifter, you put it in full auto and then move it over towards you a lil and then you push forward for up and down for down... it actually is a pretty good tranny. for a fwd it connects pretty well and doesnt totally understeer through the turns. Quote Link to comment
pope_face Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Thanks for the help kiznook... and you too tnip. I know what you mean about locating parts and all. In all honesty, I was considering blaspheming and replacing the engine with an older Honda or Volkswagen engine or something of the sort, just to get the semi-auto out of it... But, what with the Honda being a FWD and the Volkswagen being a rear engine (and a pancake at that) it would be more than a bit of a hassle... although a mid-engined 521 would be kinda cool... Oi, looks like I'll work on figuring out some sort of hand clutch... If that doesn't work, I suppose I'll try to track down an L-series engine with an auto... or even something newer, as long as it's carbed and sans computer... Quote Link to comment
tnip Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 ... now don't go stealing my idea for a kick ass mid engine 521.. haha nah, if you built it first i could learn from your mistakes... i had the same idea. i've looked at these zcars mini conversion kits. they take a honda B series motor and transmission and build a subframe to stick it in the back of an original mini. and i was thinking this would make for a kick ass truck, weight distribution would be pretty good too. and the 521 is even more perfect than some newer trucks because of it's small size and relatively heavy duty frame. i figured on back halfing the thing with a cage to support the honda motor and tranny, possibly mount the radiator right between the motor and cab, pre-runner style. but leaving it up front works a lil better for hiding what you've got... sleeper fast ass honda powered mid engine 521 :fu: :lol: Quote Link to comment
pope_face Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Hahaha, yeah I was considering that myself... although, I went a little further than a Honda engine... I was considering an older Porsche engine... Or even one of the old 1600cc VW bus engines... I think they were basically the same engine as the older Porsches, but with a different drivetrain and maybe a little less power... then you could keep the Datsun 1600 badges on the side, and no-one would be the wiser! Put a tonneau (sp?) cover and you could have a badass little truck... or, maybe the engine/transmission out of an MR2 could be made to fit? Or... a Ferrari, if you wanted to get really hardcore... Could you imagine a V12 Ferrari engine with the tiptronic transmission shoved in the bed of a one tonne 521? Quote Link to comment
Jester Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 How about a nice 4.3 liter Vortec with a 700R4. Equip it with a manual valve body and your set. Lots of power, tons of aftermarket, and plenty of room in the engine bay. You will have to do some work on the tranny tunnel though. Some of the later GM's have a trick automatic shifter that can be shifted manual or auto. Just a thought Jester Quote Link to comment
pope_face Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I wouldn't mind a small block, but I went with the Datsun so that I could have a four-cylinder. I was considering some of the older American pickups but I just couldn't see myself putting enough gas in it to run it as much as I'd like to. Besides, like I said above, I like how simple the older engines are... although I'm pretty sure there'd be some way to use a large motorbike engine and tranny and modify it to fit... Some bikes came with an automatic clutch, and it is possible to get automatic clutch kits for a motorcycle... The only issue is how well it would work in a truck... somehow I figure the powerband and transmission would be off... Edit: Actually... apparently the 2004 Yamaha FJR 1300 has a 1298cc in-line four engine with a 5-speed (I think) transmission and a shaft-driven rear wheel... the whole thing puts out about 140 hp at 8,000 rpm and 100 ft.lbs of torque at 7,000 rpm... I know the J13 puts out 67 hp at 5,700 rpm... not sure about the torque. Does anyone know what issues could arise from using a motorcycle engine in a truck? Only obvious problem I can see would be the engine speeds... but as far as I know my 521 has a 4.88 final drive ratio, so as far as the wheels go it should be similar to running lower rpms with a lower gear ratio, correct? Any major flaws in my thinking here? Quote Link to comment
kiznook Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 the 510 with paddle shift was a FULL custom setup to run a L series tranny. but it was very complicated, I thinkit was a engineering school project IIRC. you could probably run a very simple setup using a handlebar clutch lever on the shifter with a cable going under the dash to a chopped off clutch pedal to do transfer the footwork to your fingers. Maybe a t-handle shifter so your wrist is level. Or just get a KA with an auto on the back. Might be able to find a shop to custom modify the valve body for ya to make it more of a slap-shift arrangement. Quote Link to comment
pope_face Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I was considering the clutch hand lever to the clutch pedal, and it would work, but it would need a massive amount of strength to use... The master cylinder piston only needs to move about an inch, which is right about how much throw I get on a clutch hand lever, but using the foot requires quite a bit of force, and that's about 6 inches of movement... Decrease the travel and increase the force... Unless, like I said, I use a power brake booster, but then I'd have to get the booster and a vacuum pump, and there's no guarantee that'd even work... But... you mentioned getting the transmission modified... is it possible to do that? I think I'm going to just start poking around and looking for a decent L16 with an auto tranny to use... Thanks for looking up the 510 though... I appreciate the help. Just out of curiosity, do you happen to have the information on the paddle shift? I'm just curious as to how complicated it ended up being... and do you know if they started with an auto or manual transmission? Quote Link to comment
kiznook Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I can't find the article!! it was pretty complex, Big circuit/relay board, and a bunch of servos and actuators and whatnot. As far as I know, it's possible to put a "shift kit" in any auto, it's just a matter of knowing what prings and balls to use. Then again, I don't claim to know ANYTHING about the way automagic transmissions work :D but sounds like auto is the way to go. Pedal clutch is completely out of the question eh? I'm sure theres a way to keep things somewhat manual for ya Quote Link to comment
tnip Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 i don't think the power brake booster is a bad idea. i just read up something as i didn't know exactly how a brake booster worked or why... i guess i should've figured it out by the fact that you have to use a vacuum line to create the easy movement. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/power-brake2.htm barring something i don't know about it seems like if you take a brake master cylinder that is vacuum boosted and plum the line to your slave cylinder instead of your brakes then it will do the same thing. so i think that is the best bet right there. the only issue, i see, is figuring out where to mount it. Quote Link to comment
kiznook Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 twin turbo Z32 (300zx) came with "power" vacuum assist clutch M/C Quote Link to comment
tnip Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 there ya go... an oem setup. why did they feel it nec. to make the clutch "power"? did the z32tt have a super heavy clutch or something? Quote Link to comment
kiznook Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I think it was just a added luxury/exploration of technology. They didn't need 4ws either I still can't find that damn write-up! grrr. Quote Link to comment
pope_face Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Hmm... the power assist Z32TT clutch sounds like a good idea... I ought to see if I can find out how much the force is reduced by the booster though... and then it's a matter of trying to find one to try out that isn't overly pricey. Somehow I figure if I get one from the dealership or auto parts store I'll be looking at some $300+, not to mention getting a vacuum pump... I don't trust the carb to provide a steady, uninterrupted vacuum, and it'd be nice to have an electrical pump to provide boost when the engine's off... Actually... it would be interesting to get an entire Z32TT... would that fit? I'm positive someone's done it before... Then again, it would likely have too many electronics in it... is there any way to reduce the amount of electronics in an engine, maybe with an FI to carb swap? As for why I can't use the clutch pedal... I'm glad the question didn't come up before. I know some forums that would simply say "Just learn to use the clutch pedal!" without even trying to answer my question, so thanks guys. Nice to know that there are reasonable people around. I have used a clutch pedal before, in Poland when I was getting a quick lesson in driving a shift, and here when I have to move the truck around a bit, but I don't think it's safe for me to use in daily driving. I have a disability that limits movement to my legs, so my legs aren't as strong or fast as most people's... I can drive a normal automatic, but I use both feet... left foot on the brake, right foot on the gas. It would just be too hard for me to effectively switch between gas and brake repeatedly, especially in such a confined space. The only other real possibility (that hasn't come up yet) would be to switch either the gas or brake pedal to a hand lever... the gas would be the easiest, but it would be pretty strange to learn... Quote Link to comment
]2eDeYe Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Welcome aboard. Interesting project, if you wanted to go with hand controlled gas you could ride a quad to get a feel if it would work for you. They use a thumb control for the gas. It's not as weird to get used to as one might think. Quote Link to comment
Cruzn620 Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 i see you want to keep it 4 cylinders for the gas savings, but want to run a carb for simplicity reasons. i understand both sides of the argument totally, but i think you are going to lose out on fuel efficiency with a carb. my injected 4 cyl. s-10 gets 28-30mpg and my carbed 4cyl. 620 gets about 19-20. i want to see this thing shift though! originally i wanted to do a Z32TT swap into my 620, but with all the piping and the fact that i am going to be laying body on 18's...it wasn't all going to fit. i think the 521 is smaller than the 620 too...so even if the motor fits, its the piping that will get you. i have seen the swap into a 620 before, but it was in a stock height truck, he didnt have the wheels stuffed up in the engine bay Quote Link to comment
pope_face Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 A thumb control as in a thumb lever, on the rear of the handlebar? The throttle cable is fairly light, so I suppose I could just use a motorcycle brake lever or something and run it directly to the carb... or even a grip throttle off of a motorcycle... I suppose it would be the easiest thing to do, aside from trying to learn it. I'm pretty used to the right foot gas, left foot brake, so it would throw me for a curve... I also do a lot of long-distance highway driving, so I'm wondering how comfortable it would be to use the gas like that... Quote Link to comment
pope_face Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I'm still debating the ride height... right now the rear has been dropped a couple inches on blocks, but the front is still stock height. I'm actually considering raising the rear again to get the rake... or, even lowering the rear and raising the front... I think that would make for a pretty nice rat... especially if I used airbags and had steel plates under the truck, so I could drop it on the highway and send sparks out the back... As for the carb losing fuel efficiency, I'm not too worried about that. There's really a lot more to the whole deal than just simplicity and fuel efficiency, although that's the main part. I'm the kind of guy who likes to actually work on his cars... I can't leave well enough alone. With an FI, I can't do that, and I'm not keen to try to learn about the electronics in one. I understand electronics more or less, but I'd rather not have them in my car. Other than that, I've always been a fan of doing something a little different... A lot of people around here have cars or trucks with small blocks, and it seems like that's the trend nowadays. Even a lot of the imports (and there's a lot here) are getting engines with more toys and larger displacement. There doesn't seem to be many people who really make an effort to build up small displacement engines... The other thing I wouldn't mind doing is getting a diesel engine... I think some of the trucks in the early 80's had them, and some older BMW's even had turbocharged ones. I think a small, turbocharged performance diesel would be interesting... Quote Link to comment
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