My 77 620 K/C 4x4 project.

[RacnJsn95]

The 5 speed I have looks to be an early Z transmission. That's ok, right? Aren't Z transmissions longer than the stock 4 speed?

 

I dont think I can get away with just dropping the pan. It's a light to medium knock at idle, but if you give it any gas it sounds REALLY bad... Sounds like there might even be 2. I'm just gonna pull the engine. Can't I just have the crank turned? Or is that bad?

[datzenmike]

The 5 speed I have looks to be an early Z transmission. That's ok, right? Aren't Z transmissions longer than the stock 4 speed?

 

I dont think I can get away with just dropping the pan. It's a light to medium knock at idle, but if you give it any gas it sounds REALLY bad... Sounds like there might even be 2. I'm just gonna pull the engine. Can't I just have the crank turned? Or is that bad?

 

Depends on the under size bearings available for it and if a used one is cheaper than the machine work.

 

Seems like everything went south after the oil change. Sounds like lack of oil to the bearings, did the light come on while running? What oil was in it before and after? Take the filter off and empty out the old oil. Is it full of metal particles? If it is the pump will be too. Check it out it may need replacing. I have one from a KA motor... looks like sand in it.

 

Get one for any 720, D21 Hard Body or Pathfinder, with the Z24i throttle body injection motor. It has the high volume pump with rotors that are 14% longer. My warm idle pressure went from 16-18 PSI to just under 30 with a used pump.

[RacnJsn95]

I'll call the machine shop tomorrow and see how much they charge to turn a crank. I know I've seen the rod bearings in .010, and .020 under.

 

The light came on for a split second, went back off, came on again, shut it down, but the damage was already done. I drained the oil today, and they was metal in it :( Deffinitely bearing material :( For the first 400-500 miles there was just straight 30wt oil, and a "Parts Master" oil filter, because it was all that was in stock. Never had the problem with the oil light staying on so long on start up with that filter. I changed the oil to 10-30, and used a NAPA Select filter.

 

The pump was a brand new KA pump. I'll pull the filter off tomorrow, and cut it open... There has to be something wrong inside it or something. I'm going to have to rent a storage unit for a month and put my Chevelle in there so I can free up the carport for the Datsun.

 

Maybe I should put a turbo and EFI on the 620? Or maybe just SU's... SU's cant run out of fuel on a steep incline like a normal carb, right? Since they're constant velocity?

[]2eDeYe]

Fix the knock, then upgrade ;)

[banzai510(hainz)]

Lets us know what you find about the knock??

I seen a motor the guy put the main bearing half in the upper instead of the lower. meaning the hole from the block to feed the oil to the motor was blocked. But I put 20k miles on this motor and ran it out of oil once till it almost froze up on the road. I got a quart of oil let it cool down nd it ran!!!!!!

But would take 1 quart every 3 days??????? I pulled th head and dumped it. But never a knock

 

I wonder when it was assemble you for got a nut/bolt of something.

 

as for main bearings its really over size right and undersize the crank.

 

I havent seen a crank really needing to be turned myself. they are really strong.

[RacnJsn95]

On this engine that's in the 620 now, when I first took it apart, the bearings were worn down into the copper, but the journals looked ok... I contemplated getting it polished, but I passed... I'm going to start taking the engine back out this weekend, but I'm going to pull that oil filter tomorrow after work and cut it open.

 

I'm about 99.5% positive that I didn't forget any nuts/bolts on the bottom end. I checked, and re-checked, to make sure the nut/bolt torque was right, and then re-checked a third time before I put the pan on the last time. It was all there, and torqued to spec.

 

The only things I can think of that cuased this are:

a) Some kind of defective oil filter

B) The oil pick up tube broke off in the pan, I dont think it could have fallen off because I used lock-tite on the bolts. I actually had one break on my 78 510 wagon.

c) My new KA oil pump took a dump.

 

This time when I put the engine back together, I'm going to have all the rods resized, and the rotating assembly balanced. Of course I'll have to bore the engine out another .010 also... So not counting what I paid for pistons, and whatever I end up paying for a z22 engine/crank, I'll have another $350 or so in machine work, gaskets, and bearings. :(

 

I'm debating whether I should get the "super dry-film lubrication coated" bearings again... They obviously didn't help me any, and were almost tripple the cost of normal ones.

 

So... When I get this together; IF it works, I'll tell you what pistons I ended up using... I don't see why it wouldn't work, the math works out right, and the pin diameter is the same. Even if it doesn't work, I'll let you guys know, so you don't make the same mistake I did... But I'm fairly certain it will work, I just wanna see if it does/doesn't before I spill the beans. But then again, maybe someone already knows that they are?

[banzai510(hainz)]

why you need to get bigger pistons?

 

I think I would replace what broken and run it and build another motor on the side slowly(not in a rush)so you can think things out.

 

I buy the cheap bearings. never had a proplem

 

 

maybe a relif valve poped in the oilmpump or something*im guessing here*

[RacnJsn95]

I had to get bigger pistons because I couldn't find anything with the right compression (pin) height in the current bore size, (or anything smaller than 86mm for that matter) to work with the z22 crank and the z20e rods.

 

I'm starting to think you're right... I should just pull the pan, and hope I can just roll some new bearings in it without pulling the crank, clean out the pan, and oil pump and hope it will run ok, and then collect parts and build another super engine on the side.

 

I have the pistons, rods, and a block... I just need the z22 crank.

 

*EDIT* I just remembered I'll probably have to pull the head, because I'm sure I'll need to have the rod re-sized. :(

[RacnJsn95]

I'm thinking of buying this crank kit...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Nissan-crankshaft-kit-w-bearings-Z22-200SX-1980-86_W0QQitemZ320146089611QQihZ011QQcategoryZ33616QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

 

What do you guys think? It seems like an ok deal, with bearings. What are the odds of anyone here ever dealing with this guy? I'm going to email them and ask how far the crank are generally turned... I dont want anything that's like .040 under, ya know?

[datzenmike]

I'm thinking of buying this crank kit...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Nissan-crankshaft-kit-w-bearings-Z22-200SX-1980-86_W0QQitemZ320146089611QQihZ011QQcategoryZ33616QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

 

What do you guys think? It seems like an ok deal, with bearings. What are the odds of anyone here ever dealing with this guy? I'm going to email them and ask how far the crank are generally turned... I dont want anything that's like .040 under, ya know?

 

Z22 '80- '86 200sx is wrong. The Z22 was only run in the 200sx in '82 and '83.

 

'80-'81 Z20E

'82&'83 Z22E

'83 CA20 (2bbl)

'84 through '86 CA20E and CA18ET

 

The Z22 main bearing size was 2.1631" and the rods were 1.967" Just be sure you are getting a Z22 crank.

[lynchfourtwenty]

what about the 200sx with the vg30?!??

[RacnJsn95]

Z22 '80- '86 200sx is wrong. The Z22 was only run in the 200sx in '82 and '83.

 

'80-'81 Z20E

'82&'83 Z22E

'83 CA20 (2bbl)

'84 through '86 CA20E and CA18ET

 

The Z22 main bearing size was 2.1631" and the rods were 1.967" Just be sure you are getting a Z22 crank.

 

Thanks Mike, I didn't catch that... I just saw the Z22, and thought I'd be good to go... I'll shoot them an email and make sure that it's either a real Z22e or Z22s crank, and not something else. The Z22 was run in the 720 from 81-83, thought right? Or was it just 82-83 also?

 

Hmm... Maybe I wont buy it... Shipping is pretty expensive... I had a 240z crank shipped for less than half that.

[Fineline]

Kind of far from you but maybe worth an e-mail. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/474090486.html

[RacnJsn95]

Kind of far from you but maybe worth an e-mail. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/474090486.html

 

That's awesome! Thanks fineline! If it weren't so late I would call now... I'll call when I get up in the morning.

[datzenmike]

what about the 200sx with the vg30?!??

 

The list only went to '86, the VG was available the next year.

 

Jason: yes the Z22 was from '81 through '83.

 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/474090486.html Not a bad price for both even.

[RacnJsn95]

Called the craigs list guy a few times through out the day, no answer. Left a couple messages. He must not want to sell them that bad.

[RacnJsn95]

Got a lead on a complete (possibly) Z22 engine for $150. Supposedly ran good when it was pulled. I asked the guy to see if it was stamped Z20/Z22/Z24, but all he was able to find was NISSAN 10W on the drivers side. So I'm gonna man up and buy some gas for the long drive after work tomorrow :

 

I'll use the crank in my "LZ 2.14"... Or is it just an L2.14 because I'm using the L head, and block? I'll save the rods, just in case I even need to make it into a Z22 again, and maybe I'll build a super turbo motor out of the Z22 block, and scheme to find another 510 to put it in.

 

*EDIT 11/21*

Well the search continues... The guy sold it out from under me... Just my luck..

[RacnJsn95]

Well my plan to work on Project: Ghetto EFI kinda backfired today, so since the weather was halfway decent, I decided to pull the pan on the 620, and hope I can roll a bearing in it and button it back up. I haven't given up on the LZ hybrid semi-stroker, but I figured this would be the fastest way to get it rolling untill I can source out an affordable z22 crankshaft...

 

Ran into trouble right off the bat, when I discovered that the PO had welded the bolt-on bracket for the pan hard bar under the oil pan to the frame... And the bar itself was too long for where they had the bracket welded so I couldn't get it out. Luckily I was able to use an electric die-grinder to cut the bracket off cleanly. I'll post some pictures of the bracket, and bar, I plan to remake the bracket, so it will bolt on to the frame with 2 or 4 bolts, instead of the just one that was on there...

 

Finally got the pan hard bar out, pulled the pan, found the knocking rod, pulled the cap and here's what I saw...

 

The bearing pieces were actually fused together, so it took some doing to get them apart...

 

Rad, huh? So much for my super dry film lubrication coated bearings, eh? Here's a shot of the crank:

 

Still clueless to why this happened... When I took the oil filter off, there was virtually no oil in it, so I'm wondering if the new oil pump was a dud or something. The crank miked out ok, so I'll get some ultra fine emry cloth, and try to clean it up a little, put a new bearing in it, button it back up. I'll fill it up with synthetic oil, and turn it over without the filter on and see if oil comes flying out the side of the block or not... I'm off to pick up the bearings, I doubt I'll have it back together tonight, so you'll probably hear more about how it goes tomorrow...

[INDY510]

What ever happened with your gsxr 750 dwarf car idea? Or is it in your lawn mower?

Sorry to hear about your motor.

[RacnJsn95]

What ever happened with your gsxr 750 dwarf car idea? Or is it in your lawn mower?

Sorry to hear about your motor.

 

I'm kinda trying to find a quad to put it in... I think I'd have more fun with it like that...

 

Anyway, Just got back from town... $65 bucks later, I have everything to put this thing back together... So I'm gonna go work on it, and see how far I can get tonight.

 

*EDIT* Got the crank cleaned up, put the new bearing in, and got the rod cap torqued down before it got dark... That will give it the night for stuff to dry ;) I'll put the pan on tomorrow, and probably have it running by tomorrow afternoon... Assuming the oil pump isn't bad, I'm pretty sure it will run for a while, but who knows how long before it spits the bearing out again...

 

The only causes I can think of for this are... A) Bad oil pump B) I didn't have the rods resized when I built the engine... And I'm pretty leary about this rod now, especially since it spun a bearing, and I haven't had it resized this time... :unsure:

[datzenmike]

Jason, get some Plastigauge and check that clearances before you start it up. Plastigauge shows the clearance under real conditions with the rod cap torqued down. If the clearance is excessive you may loose more than a bearing insert next time. It's cheap and easy to use.

 

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/plastigage_rodjournal.jpg[/img]"]

 

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/plastigage2.jpg[/img]"]

 

Did you fill the oil pump with clean oil before you fired it up. If the pump was dry, it's hard to generate suction to draw the oil up out of the pan. Fill the filter too.

 

At least 600 emery cloth maybe follow with something even higher, you can't have it too shiny.

 

Might be a good idea to check all the rod clearances (only three left)

[RacnJsn95]

When I get to get the emry cloth, there was only 3 kinds: Course, Med., and Fine... I just used the Med once real quick to get the big stuff off, and finished it off with fine after that... I think it came out pretty good...

 

When I first put the engine together, I filled the oil pump with oil, and whenever I changed the oil filter, I always filled it about half way. I figure if I fill it full, I dump at least half the oil out on the ground when I turn the filter sideways to put it on, so no point in wasting the oil.

 

The plastigauge is a good idea, I should have bought some today... I don't think I'll be checking all 4 rod clearances though, there's a bunch of crap in the way, and I think if I took the rod caps off, I'd never be able to get the torque wrench in there to torque them back down. Luckily it was the easiest one to get the wrench to...

 

The PO welded this god awful big plat in the front of the truck, I assume it's for a winch, and it's in the way of everything!!! I have no means to cut it off, or I would have today.

[]2eDeYe]

You should make yourself a oil pump primer. Basically you need a long screwdriver you can cut up and chuck in a drill. You can also slide a socket over it before chucking it up to keep it centered. Pull the dizzy and your valve cover. Slid the primer onto the pump shaft and run the drill. Make sure your getting oil up to your cam. If not the pump is bad...if so pump is good ;)

[datzenmike]

You would have to remove the pump first and take the drive spindle out first as it's gear driven by the crank. Put the oil pump back on and a long enough screw driver will reach all the way down to the pump.

 

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/CopyofIMG_0376.jpg[/img]"]

[]2eDeYe]

I used mine on an AMC 360, same principle, different execution. :P