How many degrees BTDC should I run???

[lynchfourtwenty]

sounds like you have other problems then.. besides if its at 10:30 its retarded right? so what good is that doin.. if you wanted more advance wouldnt you set it past 11:28?? i think something else is the problem an you should set it back to 11:28 an check the gear on the timing chain an see where it lines up on TDC .. somethings just not right..

[Buzzbomb]

I initially began with it set to 11:28.

However, at that position, I didn't get enough adjustability (couldn't move enough to the clockwise side enough to get enough advance)

That's why I had to re-clock the pump.

 

If the 11:28 pump shaft equals TDC on the crank pulley, which I assume it does if I remember from Hainz's video, how can you accurately tell what degree advance or retard you are truly running if you have it at 10:30?Hainz's video shows the oil pump in at 11:28, crankshaft set at TDC. If you have the pump at 10:30, and the dizzy runs from the pump, it seems to me that you would have to rescribe your own TDC mark in your crankshaft pulley for true TDC and accurate timing adjustments. You can get a piston stop to do that if you want to, but as others have said, it's probably another problem.

[lynchfourtwenty]

ya dont u see my title.. it says im a datsun mechanic.. so im right, set it to 11:28 an check the cam sprocket V thing and re check valve lash as for the weber turn the mixture screw in till it stops, then back it out 2 to 2.5 turns.. then we'll see where we stand.. oh ya recheck those plugs!!

 

if your expecting a durastic horse power increase from havin the match box dont, i mean there will be something to notice but its not gonna have tons more hp..

 

my truck is quick for a 620, but thats it.. i mean i've smoked mofos an shit but really nothin worth braggin about, going from driving my se-r to drivin my truck i feel like im bein held back, before you know it im at 6grand an goin oh shit better shift lol i have come to terms my truck isnt a race truck :( so when i do drive her i try to keep that in mind..

 

guess that didnt have nothin to do with your post but im bored :fu:

[az_rat210]

Not trying to insult anyones intelligence with this. But whenever I have had a problem that I know is the distributor the first thing I do, is realign the distributor to No 1 Position at TDC on the No 1 Cylinder Compression Stroke.

 

Is it possible that on initial alignment your No 1 Cylinder was not on the compression stroke when aligning to 0 TDC?

 

Just a thought. And if you're using a Transistor Style Electronic Ignition, there should be 2 wires going from the distributor back to the box. (at least there is on my A-Series Motor).

 

Other possibilities could be that the Diagphram in the Vacuum advance Module on the Dizzy is bad. That would create a vacuum leak which could impact how it runs.

[lynchfourtwenty]

yea if its not on compression stroke its no good lol

[hessianben]

In regards to all of the possible scenarios...

Thanks for everyone's input.

 

I approached this EL swap with a timed, fresh, well running L16.

The bottom end and cam gear line up perfectly with the 'v' on the sprocket.

The Weber was tuned and ran perf.

The valve lash was checked and rechecked to .008 and .010.

The dist. drive shaft was clocked to 11:28.

 

 

That said, the only thing that was changed was replacing the stock

distributor and coil with the matchbox and matching coil.

When I reinstalled the new dist. the rotor locked down 180 out from the stock unit.

I re-indexed the plug wires for the new cap and was good to go.

The motor fired and would idle well enough for me to adjust by turning the dizzy.

The ONLY reason I reclocked the shaft was that it would run better and better as I turned it clockwise, but ran out of adjustability on the pedestal.

THAT is why I moved it a tooth. After that I could adjust in either direction until

it would run poorly.

 

I was not expecting to gain any power with this swap. I just liked the idea of not

frying points!

I'm not just making a big deal about not gaining horsepower.

 

The reason I don't want to go digging into other potential issues just yet is that

I know for a fact the motor ran super strong before. The only different part is the ignition.

 

At this point it seems like there are two scenarios:

 

1. I am missing something really basic and will feel stupid when I find it

(maybe in the installation process)

 

2. The distributor is bad (it has very slight play when I twist the shaft)

 

 

One thing I don't know how to test is the weights in the centrifugal adv. system.

The vac advance seems to hold vacuum. (I have it disconnected when I'm setting it)

 

Here's a longshot...

 

But, if anyone in Southern Cali has a spare working matchbox dizzy,

perhaps I could 'rent' or borrow it for a few hours to see if it makes

a difference...

 

Appreciate everyones' help!

thanks

[lynchfourtwenty]

that sounds like a good idea.. if i was near i'd help ya bud, somethings just not right

[datzenmike]

Take the cap off so you can see the rotor. Remove the vacuum line and suck on the end. The rotor should turn clockwise and stay there till you release the vacuum. Assume the advance mechanism is free to move and is working.

 

Set the drive spindle anywhere where it gives you the range to set your timing.

 

Assure that the wires, cap and rotor are in good shape and the dizzy properly grounded.

 

Start it up and drive it. IF it drives like shit.....LOOK ELSEWHERE!!!!!!

[banzai510(hainz)]

hessianben

Only time you really need to move it a tooth is if the Matcbox dizzy and pedatal do not match up. The pedastal will be slightly clocked differnt where that tang is.Why as there were 2 types and people mismatch them when thy sell them!!!! Or put them together not knowing there is 2 types.

Youll now this IF when you lock the rotor down and the rotor points inbetween plug wire 1 and 3. Car will start and run but will run out of timming.

If yes then you move itone tooth in the direction of #1 plug wire.

 

otherwise go by your timming light and adjust so you have good movement.(rememebr the 8mm bolt that holds the timming plate can be adjusted also for more movement one way or the other.

 

I know I can get mine down to Zero to 20 before TDC for sure.

 

If worked good with the old ignition Line back to TDC and put it back in.

[hessianben]

Yep, sounds like that's my option for now.

 

One other thing- Does anyone have a photo of their ground wire from matchbox to the motor?

 

Thanks

[banzai510(hainz)]

http://www.dimequarterly.tierranet.com/

 

Tech electrical section writeup

[hessianben]

http://www.dimequarterly.tierranet.com/

 

Tech electrical section writeup

 

 

Got it- Thanks!

 

Looks like the only difference is the absence of ballast resistor...

"grounds through case and points" would mean that I don't need to run a ground wire??

(even though there are no points?) I would think that the gasket would prevent a good ground through the case.

 

I'll rig up a ground and see if it makes a difference.

thanks

[RustyRat4x4]

Hey, just curious... when you did the dizzy swap from points to EI, did you re-gap the plugs for the EI dizzy production of a stronger spark (IE: Points 9-volts / EI 12 volts)?? Had the wrong gap on the spark plugs in one of my old rigs after an electrical upgrade was done... a couple of thou of gap is world of difference, and it's a small detail to overlook on an install.

 

 

When the EI dizzy went into the 'Rusty Rat', the A/F mix was off a little on the lean side. Hotter spark burns more fuel to make that little extra power, didn't make huge a difference in the performance but much smoother over all.

[HRH]

A lot of the problems with matchboxs is they're old. I've run into that myself. Keep in mind, it's already a 30 year old part. Some of them fail randomly. I had one on the car last summer and it worked okay, but had a massive hesitation and some mid range detonation. I put my pertronix back on and zero problems. Not that matchboxs are bad, just that to my knowledge you can't get them new anymore, and all the rebuilds we sell at NAPA are slowly starting to come without the matchbox.

 

Basically it's a super small MSD ignition, and a lot of them are going to start failing due to age. And worse, the Pertronix ignition is only for single point dizzys, which are getting harder and harder to come by. I'll probably re-drill the pertronix the next time I get one so I can fit it on the dual point dizzy, which are much easier to get.

[racerx]

That's why I went w/ pertronix set-up...you set it and forget it...trying to match distributor parts can be tricky..I think your off a tooth or something w/ dist. You should have ample play with timing. I went rhought this awhile back and my timing is at around 12 degrees, L18 engine, and that's all I can get. My pedastal is the right one for set-up, after seeing various types....yeh, take out dist. and see how it lines up..Hainz has an excellent write up and video on this..he da man..when it comes to L series engines.

[zerow]

After reading all of this, I would have to lend an opinion to the ground, but one thing has not been mentioned. Did he take off the actual matchbox unit and clean behind the mounts? This is where the matchbox unit gains its ground connection and 30 years worth of grime and whatever built up behind the unit will surely cause what he has described.

 

Definitely get the oil pump in line. 11:28 is the correct amount at the compression stroke of cylinder #1

It mentioned that he was 180 out when he mounted it. Was the install inverted because of clearance issues near the coolant intake?

It mentioned correct pedestal when mounted. As long as the install did not come from the J/Y, but a running car to a running car, then this can be ruled out.

It mentioned he using the EI coil. No problems there.

Clean all terminals for the Matchbox. even a little bit of tarnish/corrosion will cause hesitation issues. remove the actual black matchbox and clean behind it as well. Ground the distributor using a heavy gauge (12 or 10) wire to the block. Although close, don't use the coolant bolts, there are gaskets there, too.

Re-Gap the plugs for EI and recheck.

[hang_510]

to my knowledge you can't get them new anymore, and all the rebuilds we sell at NAPA are slowly starting to come without the matchbox.

most SS devices last a long time unless heated.

 

many of the itermittant issues are from poor connections.

when they do actually fail, rarelt is it intermittant.

 

 

AFAIK the 'matchbox' is still avail(rockauto), for about the same price as a reman distributor (that usually come with it attached!)

 

 

i have a spare module, but the case is cracked...

[datzenmike]

Set the drive spindle anywhere where it gives you the range to set your timing.

 

Assure that the wires, cap and rotor are in good shape and the dizzy properly grounded.

 

Start it up and drive it. IF it drives like shit.....LOOK ELSEWHERE!!!!!!

 

Sometimes the dizzy mounting base is for the wrong distributor so the adjustment range is 180 or 36 degrees, (or whatever) out. As long as the rotor is under any plug wire then this becomes #1 and the other wires and arranged in the proper firing order 1342 around it.

 

There are 20 teeth on the drive spindle so 20 possible positions for the dizzy. Probably not all will be solidly under a plug wire on the cap but if there is one there has to be 3 more at 90 degree intervals. There could be 8 or even 12 that will work. The drive spindle does not have to be at 11:28 this is a convenience allowing everyone to be in agreement when discussing a timing subject.

[HRH]

Finally found this thread again. Did some digging, it turns out we CAN still get the matchbox by itself at NAPA, but it's damn near $300 regular walk-in price. Even my employee price is pretty steep.

 

Looking at the RockAuto site, the Beck Arnley offering is only $77, then there's a Standard option which is ours/Motion/etc. Then there's another called Airtex or something. Vatozone has it for about $120, which is probably the BA version.

 

Either way, it's a heck of a lot cheaper to go through Beck Arnley and from my experience most of their stuff is just as good as what we would have available. Aside from online, I think the only other parts place I know that still carries BA is Carquest, but I could be wrong on that.

 

NAPA/Standard part is a TP111. The BA is a 1800026.