A14 Turbo Project

[JacobBieg]

After some advice from the forum I installed a 32/36 Weber DGEV carb and although it runs its just not as much power as I would like. I'm considering doing a turbo build but I don't know where to start. Is there anyone that still makes manifolds and/or kits, what modifications would I have to do to my 1979 Datsun 210 in order to make everything fit? Do I keep the carb on it and do a blow through or draw through, or do I just do EFI? Any advice?

[datzenmike]

This is a rabbit hole. You can reliably boost about half a bar and the engine will survive. Several car makers have done this on stock hypereutectic pistons: Ford' 2.3 and the Chrysler 2.2. Theoretically that's a 50% boost in power so 78 hp? now can be jacked to just under 120.  Understand that this power is only after boost builds and low speed power is the same. Draw through would be the easiest and blow through would require a fuel pump that maintains a pressure that is 3-5 PSI higher than the boost pressure or 3 PSI pump pressure won't be able to push into a carburetor under 6 PSI pressure. In either case the distributor will need some kind of way to reduce advance under boost to prevent pre ignition. You might want a larger carburetor as you will be drawing potentially 50% more air.

 

More than this above and the engine life declines and the cost to prevent rises exponentially. Trust me when I say that performance is addicting and you will want more.

 

Spend the money and buy this book by Corky Bell... https://www.amazon.ca/Maximum-Boost-Designing-Installing-Turbocharger/dp/0837601606  ... Its about 25 years old but physics does not change the basic facts however there have been some advancements in parts and problems with boost. 

[JacobBieg]

Alright I'll look into it, Thanks. Any recommendations on doing a EFI swap?

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I applaud you for your enthusiasm, but man, that's a giant leap, from DGV to turbo.

 

I used to build race engines for a living, and one common question was how do I get more power out of my engine, and I'd say, sell the car and get one with a bigger engine. Point is, there's nothing like simple, and when you start adding gadgets and systems to make lots more power, the driveability usually suffers.

[JacobBieg]

Also could the vacuum distributor advance line be hooked up to the manifold to fix the pre-detonation issue?

[JacobBieg]

3 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

I applaud you for your enthusiasm, but man, that's a giant leap, from DGV to turbo.

 

I used to build race engines for a living, and one common question was how do I get more power out of my engine, and I'd say, sell the car and get one with a bigger engine. Point is, there's nothing like simple, and when you start adding gadgets and systems to make lots more power, the driveability usually suffers.

I'm not really trying to quadruple my horse power as I know there's only so much power you can get out of a tiny old block, but I'm in engineering school and I have the opportunity to design engine parts on advanced machinery for free and receive credit. I'm more or less just trying to make my car more original, something new. But if it really is such a huge under taking maybe I will hold off until I have more disposable income. I was hoping it was just going to be a manifold redesign and tune up.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

It's not the hard parts that make it difficult, but yes, that's a great opportunity you have there. What makes it challenging is the tuning. You'll never be happy with a carb'd turbo setup, and swapping an A motor to EFI, well...you're on your own there as nobody I know has done it. I can count on one hand how many times I've heard of guys starting the conversion, but I can count on zero hands how many times I've heard of one that got finished.

[JacobBieg]

3 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

but I can count on zero hands how many times I've heard of one that got finished.

I wish I could get my hands on those South African EFI manifolds

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Someone here has to know where to get one.

 

But again, it's the fuel, air and ignition management that takes most of the time. I suppose you could use one of the off-the-shelf EFI kits, from FAST or EZEFI or FiTech. You could make a manifold for a 2 barrel throttle body and use one of those kits. Wouldn't be that hard I guess.

[datzenmike]

44 minutes ago, JacobBieg said:

Also could the vacuum distributor advance line be hooked up to the manifold to fix the pre-detonation issue?

 

At less than full throttle the vacuum advance adds needed advance. If connected to intake and under boost it can't go negative timing. That would be nice though.

[docbainey]

On 1/20/2024 at 12:24 PM, JacobBieg said:

I'm not really trying to quadruple my horse power as I know there's only so much power you can get out of a tiny old block, but I'm in engineering school and I have the opportunity to design engine parts on advanced machinery for free and receive credit. I'm more or less just trying to make my car more original, something new. But if it really is such a huge under taking maybe I will hold off until I have more disposable income. I was hoping it was just going to be a manifold redesign and tune up.

Check out this thread If you have access to make parts. 

 

[Tom1200]

A-series motors did feature fuel injection but not in the USA. The set up is hard to come by.

 

There is extensive information on turbo builds on Datsun1200.com.

 

I've been racing an A-series powered car for 35 years. Realistically you can get a streetable NA motor to about 100hp at the wheels. A turbo motor about 130. Anything above that and they will wear out quickly. Race motors make 150-175hp but need rebuilding after 6-8hrs of run time.

 

As much I love the A-series motor you'd be far better served to simply install something like a L20, Z24 or KA24 out of a pick up truck. Those are easy motor swaps.

 

If you must have an A-series do the following: Bore the motor to 78.5mm which will take an A15 out to 1600cc, add a mild cam, install L16 valves I the head and clean up the ports. This will get you to around 90-95hp at the wheels. If you add side-draft carbs that will be good for another 10-15hp.

 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

There is a time in everyone's life for going crazy and trying things out.

 

I'm past that time. I like driveability.

[datzenmike]

I think this is also measured by how loud you enjoy driving and how much blood in your urine you consider safe to pass. I like quieter now and a good smooth ride in a seat with proper support.

[bananahamuck]

I took my 411 to muffler shop a couple months ago.. To replace giant Honda muffler it had ,, with glass pack.. he talked me out of glass pack because I had a resonator under car

 

… It was loud before , but now Car sounds like time trials on West Virginia back woods circle track . 

 

maybe I’m old 

 

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Edited January 29 by bananahamuck

[Matsunb210]

Hey! I actually just started going down this rabbit hole lol. I just removed my engine and am set up to do a draw thru system with a SU, as MANY people have suggested/done on the Datsun 1200 forum. Its my project/fun car so i dont rly care for drivability just a fun ride, idk about u. check out http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=Category:Forced_Induction and go from here! I learned a lot. 

[datzenmike]

Take note that the section on turbo was not marked with a letter. It was a $ sign and for good reason.

 

 

Get this book on turbo-ing anything. https://www.ebay.ca/itm/386407576413?

 

 

Although there are lots of turbo advancements the theory and physical laws are unchanged and remain the same. READ this before starting your project. For the money it may just save your engine several time over.