Need help.

[datzenmike]

Check that the cylinder one valves are closed. Already told you this. If they are not closed then you are 180⁰ out and rotor will be pointing at #4 plug wire like you have. 

[Draven521]

5 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Check that the cylinder one valves are closed. Already told you this. If they are not closed then you are 180⁰ out and rotor will be pointing at #4 plug wire like you have. 

How do I check that? I wired everything making the 4th plug the first to fire off and set the firing order accordingly and it turns over no problem! Still having the issue of when I give it gas that it cuts out. Could this just be my air and fuel mixture or still off on timing?

[datzenmike]

So turns over means that it starts???? If it's running then it won't matter if the distributor is 180 out.

 

If running set the timing to 12 degrees before top dead center (BTDC)

 

Before any adjustments to the carburetor the engine must warm up for 15 min or more.

[Draven521]

1 minute ago, datzenmike said:

So turns over means that it starts???? If it's running then it won't matter if the distributor is 180 out.

 

If running set the timing to 12 degrees before top dead center (BTDC)

 

Before any adjustments to the carburetor the engine must warm up for 15 min or more.

Yes sir starts and runs. Had it running for 15 minutes now. How do I set the timing to 12 degrees? 

[Draven521]

25 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

So turns over means that it starts???? If it's running then it won't matter if the distributor is 180 out.

 

If running set the timing to 12 degrees before top dead center (BTDC)

 

Before any adjustments to the carburetor the engine must warm up for 15 min or more.

I’m sorry Mike I understand what you mean now! I’ll update you tomorrow with how everything goes. 

[Draven521]

4 minutes ago, Draven521 said:

I’m sorry Mike I understand what you mean now! I’ll update you tomorrow with how everything goes. 

Side note. Engine timing has to be the most fascinating thing I have ever learned. Thank yall so much for all the insight  

[datzenmike]

You'll need a timing light to do properly.

 

I have set roughly and drive it under load. (briefly under full throttle) If it does not 'ping' then keep advancing till it does, then back up just enough so it doesn't. Turn distributor (after loosening the adjustment bolt) clockwise to advance and counter clockwise to retard. Pinging will happen under load with too much advance and can sound like a tapping sound that goes away when you let off the gas.

 

If you can see the timing marks on the crankshaft pulley set to what ever the 521 advance is say, 12 degrees? while on the compression stroke. Pull the coil wire off and hold near a ground, turn ignition on, loosen distributor and  rotate it back and forth. When the spark jumps that is when the timing is correct. You'll have to fiddle with it some to narrow down but it gets you close enough for running.

 

Timing light is the best though and should be used.

[Crashtd420]

11 hours ago, Draven521 said:

 I wired everything making the 4th plug the first to fire off and set the firing order accordingly and it turns over no problem! Still having the issue of when I give it gas that it cuts out. Could this just be my air and fuel mixture or still off on timing?

This statement confuses me....

#4 should not be the first to fire....

 

If you have the engine where #1 is at top dead center and the cam lobes are facing up..... where ever the rotor is point becomes the new #1.... then follow the firing order from there.....

 

 

[datzenmike]

From the description I would assume that someone had this apart and put the drive spindle in 180 out. 

 

 

My Matchbox vacuum advance won't clear the top rad hose to get the module away from the hot exhaust so I had to cock the spindle so the rotor was pointing to the #2 plug wire position. Roughly 90 degrees advanced. I called that #1 and moved all the wires accordingly. There's 20 teeth on the spindle so that many possibilities though the majority are probably not within adjustment range of the distributor. Certainly there are four perfect 90⁰ positions every 5 teeth on the spindle and every tooth is 18⁰ 5X18 = 90.

[Draven521]

On 1/19/2024 at 8:34 AM, datzenmike said:

From the description I would assume that someone had this apart and put the drive spindle in 180 out. 

 

 

My Matchbox vacuum advance won't clear the top rad hose to get the module away from the hot exhaust so I had to cock the spindle so the rotor was pointing to the #2 plug wire position. Roughly 90 degrees advanced. I called that #1 and moved all the wires accordingly. There's 20 teeth on the spindle so that many possibilities though the majority are probably not within adjustment range of the distributor. Certainly there are four perfect 90⁰ positions every 5 teeth on the spindle and every tooth is 18⁰ 5X18 = 90.

These pictures have been long over due. I never messed with the timing only because it’s a job Im not ready for. I just accepted the fact that the markings lined up and left it at that. When I’m at TDC my dist still points to the 4th plug even after dropping the dist gear and somewhat getting it lined up to the picture you sent a while back. What’s wrong? 

[Draven521]

2 minutes ago, Draven521 said:

These pictures have been long over due. I never messed with the timing only because it’s a job Im not ready for. I just accepted the fact that the markings lined up and left it at that. When I’m at TDC my dist still points to the 4th plug even after dropping the dist gear and somewhat getting it lined up to the picture you sent a while back. What’s wrong? 

Better picture of where my markings are

[Crashtd420]

From there disconnect all the plug wires....

Install the cap....

Doesn't matter what one it pointing to....

Whatever one it is, is now #1....

Plug the other end into the #1 cylinder.... then follow the firing order for the remaining 3.....

[Draven521]

1 hour ago, Crashtd420 said:

From there disconnect all the plug wires....

Install the cap....

Doesn't matter what one it pointing to....

Whatever one it is, is now #1....

Plug the other end into the #1 cylinder.... then follow the firing order for the remaining 3.....

It seems like it wants to turn over but it just sputters when I try to crank it 

[datzenmike]

CAM TIMING....

 

 

This looks like the pulley could be turned another 1/16" or so clockwise. Remember that the 0 or zero setting of the pulley involves only turning it clockwise to set. If you miss and over-shoot, back up 1/4 turn and do over. Might take several tries. This will assure that there is no slack in the timing chain. Once that it set perfectly...

 

 

The cam timing can be checked. Right now the V should be just slightly over on the right side by it's own width. Correcting the pulley mark above will move it slightly, I don't know if enough. Try it and see. Otherwise the cam is timed wrong from wear but it can be corrected.

 

NOTE: the cam timing has NOTHING to do with the ignition timing, they are in no way connected. If it's out slightly from wear the engine will run best revved up but at a loss at lower speeds. Below, you can see that there are 1, 2 and a 3 settings on the sprocket. L16/18s are set on the number 1 at the factory and have 2 and 3 for future chain wear adjustments. L20Bs are set on the number 2. This is an L16 correct??? Done carefully the sprocket can be removed and rotated clockwise and this will advance the cam about 4⁰ and will move the V slightly to the right where it should be.

 

 

 

IGNITION TIMING...

 

 

This shows cylinder one on the compression stroke, which is correct.

 

 

This shows the distributor correctly placed. Install the distributor and where ever the rotor points, that's number one cylinder. Going counter clockwise is cylinder 3 then 4 and 2.

[Crashtd420]

2 hours ago, Draven521 said:

It seems like it wants to turn over but it just sputters when I try to crank it 

Ideally this would be a good time to use a timing light... even just cranking should be enough to see where you are at..... 

[Draven521]

1 minute ago, Crashtd420 said:

Ideally this would be a good time to use a timing light... even just cranking should be enough to see where you are at..... 

I tried using my timing light and it doesn’t work. It flashes once and that’s it 

[datzenmike]

Well the timing light uses the number one plug lead as the signal source so check your points are in good shape. Clean or replace them. Point gap is 0.018-0.022". This may also be why it fails to fire.

 

Check the plug wires, the cap and the rotor inside. If they look iffy... they are. Distributor must be well bolted down as it has to be grounded to the engine to work.

[Crashtd420]

11 hours ago, Draven521 said:

I tried using my timing light and it doesn’t work. It flashes once and that’s it 

Well your mechanically in the correct location with the parts,  so it should fire...

Go through what Mike said and see what you get....

 

Something else is you try is you can clip it to main lead from the coil.... won't be correct for timing but if it flashes you know that lead is good....

Try that on all leads to see if it tells you anything..

 

[datzenmike]

Either the gun is faulty or the points are intermittent. Make sure you have a nice hot spark. Hold the coil wire near ground and have someone turn the engine with the starter.

 

If poor spark check the points.

If good spark put a spark plug in the number one plug wire and ground it to the head and try again.

 

If poor spark check points, rotor and cap. Could even be the wire. Try on number two plug wire.

If good spark then it's the gun.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

13 hours ago, Draven521 said:

I tried using my timing light and it doesn’t work. It flashes once and that’s it 

Try jiggling the wires around. My Snap-On light does this, but I wiggle the main clamp thingy and it fires right up.

[banzai510(hainz)]

cam time look fine to me may a little adav but the point on crank could be more on zero but I think its fine.

Look at ignition if points condensor.   if coil was changed or ballast installed removed ect what the orginsl set up?

[Draven521]

11 hours ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

cam time look fine to me may a little adav but the point on crank could be more on zero but I think its fine.

Look at ignition if points condensor.   if coil was changed or ballast installed removed ect what the orginsl set up?

Sorry I took some time to get back to yall. The original set up was the single point distributor not sure which brand exactly. I replaced the coil and ballast when I first bought the truck as well as the distributor. The distributor is a dual point and one thing I noticed was that the base had a wider ring on it (don’t know what else to call it) but anyways I removed it and swapped it with the original one from the previous distributor so it sat in there properly. As of right now I can get my truck to run if and only if my firing order is as followed 4,2,1,3. That’s the order the cylinders are firing. My rotor points to the 4th plug and I just made that cylinder one and then going down 2,3,4. So if that gets confusing the order of my cylinders are just reversed 1 being towards the back and 4 up front. I tried wiring it as someone suggested still making cylinder 1 the first to fire and follow the order 1,3,4,2 but all it does is sputter and creates a poof out the carb. I’m going to order a single point distributor and get the electronic ignition set up and well as a new carb because I think it’ll save me the headache and fix my problem. I just need to know the right ones to work for my truck. 
 

if you suggest not doing so please let me know 

[Draven521]

Just now, Draven521 said:

Sorry I took some time to get back to yall. The original set up was the single point distributor not sure which brand exactly. I replaced the coil and ballast when I first bought the truck as well as the distributor. The distributor is a dual point and one thing I noticed was that the base had a wider ring on it (don’t know what else to call it) but anyways I removed it and swapped it with the original one from the previous distributor so it sat in there properly. As of right now I can get my truck to run if and only if my firing order is as followed 4,2,1,3. That’s the order the cylinders are firing. My rotor points to the 4th plug and I just made that cylinder one and then going down 2,3,4. So if that gets confusing the order of my cylinders are just reversed 1 being towards the back and 4 up front. I tried wiring it as someone suggested still making cylinder 1 the first to fire and follow the order 1,3,4,2 but all it does is sputter and creates a poof out the carb. I’m going to order a single point distributor and get the electronic ignition set up and well as a new carb because I think it’ll save me the headache and fix my problem. I just need to know the right ones to work for my truck. 
 

if you suggest not doing so please let me know 

Be mindful that all though it turns over with the firing order it’s a bit choppy and idles pretty low I’m assuming I could still be off a tooth still only because my rotor points exactly at the 4th plug and I know it needs to be just a little bit before it. Correct?

[datzenmike]

If both number one valves are closed the rotor MUST point to the number one plug wire and the distributor MUST look like this...

 

 

 Pointing at any other plug wire will not work unless you move the plug wires around on the cap to get 1,3,4,2.

[Draven521]

1 minute ago, datzenmike said:

If both number one valves are closed the rotor MUST point to the number one plug wire and the distributor MUST look like this...

 

 

 Pointing at any other plug wire will not work unless you move the plug wires around on the cap to get 1,3,4,2.

That’s what I figured but for some reason it fires over and idles with the configuration I mentioned. I guess my new question is could my distributor have been assembled wrong? I ordered it from NAPA. It points to the 4th plug and I know it shouldn’t