Fluid change

[Joecar]

So my truck has been sitting for 4 years and i got the new head installed almost ready to be started. But before i start it what are the fluids i should change? 

[banzai510(hainz)]

radiators for sure. I get the premix from Walmart . do not use tap water unless a emergency

[datzenmike]

I would just fill with distilled water till you are finished messing with it and all leaks (if any) are fixed. Once the engine has settled down mix 50/50 good quality antifreeze. No sense spewing expensive antifreeze all over because the 'new' freeze plug, heater hose, thermostat, water pump failed or had to come off.

 

The old oil is ok for initial start up but lube the cam with assembly grease. Once engine is sorted, change the oil when hot to Rotella T4 and spin on a WIX filter. The old oil will catch any crap set loose cleaning the head gasket.

 

If you don't know when the transmission and differential oil was last changed (previous owners don't really care and bought the truck because cheap and don't want to spend money on it and the oil could be from the 80s or 90s) do it now. GL4 90w for transmission and GL5 90w for the differential. Good for the next 5-6 years and 30k miles.

[Joecar]

On 5/10/2022 at 3:31 PM, datzenmike said:

I would just fill with distilled water till you are finished messing with it and all leaks (if any) are fixed. Once the engine has settled down mix 50/50 good quality antifreeze. No sense spewing expensive antifreeze all over because the 'new' freeze plug, heater hose, thermostat, water pump failed or had to come off.

 

The old oil is ok for initial start up but lube the cam with assembly grease. Once engine is sorted, change the oil when hot to Rotella T4 and spin on a WIX filter. The old oil will catch any crap set loose cleaning the head gasket.

 

If you don't know when the transmission and differential oil was last changed (previous owners don't really care and bought the truck because cheap and don't want to spend money on it and the oil could be from the 80s or 90s) do it now. GL4 90w for transmission and GL5 90w for the differential. Good for the next 5-6 years and 30k miles.

For the transmission do i need to replace the filter too?

[KELMO]

Is it an automatic?

If yes, then it would be a good idea even though I think the trans filters back then were the type that could be cleaned.

 

If no, then it has no filter.

[datzenmike]

6 hours ago, Joecar said:

For the transmission do i need to replace the filter too?

 

Manuals do not have a filter, any particulate from wear settles to the bottom and is removed when the oil is drained.

 

Automatics do have a filter and it should be replaced when the fluid is replaced every 30k miles under severe conditions that could be extended to 50k miles for normal conditions. Heat is what destroys an automatic so check the fluid level at least monthly and note any color change from the bright see through ruby red. Nissan automatics use DEXRON ATF and your 720 takes about 6 US qts. The oil pan has to come off to drain and get the filter off. Fill only till the dipstick reads to the full line.

 

The torque converter and transmission cooling lines are still full of old fluid. Find the coolant lines on the driver's side of the transmission. Off hand I don't know which is which so loosen the banjo fitting and take one off. Have a pan handy to catch any spilled fluid. Very briefly, start the engine while someone watches and shut off ASAP. If fluid comes out of the transmission put the line back on and tighten it. Switch to the other line... this is the return from the radiator.  Now you can start the engine and the transmission will push new fluid into the torque converter and the old out through the cooling lines and flush them. Constantly stop the engine, check the transmission dip stick and top it up. Watch the color of the fluid as it exits the pipe. Once it clears to bright ruby red you're done. It's unavoidable that some mixing of the old and new ATF will occur in the torque converter so the change from old to new AFT wont be sudden. If the old ATF is badly discolored I would definitely flush out the torque converter but if clean but just old you could skip this part. Perhaps buy 2 extra qts for flushing.

 

Never overfill an automatic.    

Never over heat an automatic. Think of McDonalds rancid deep fryer oil.

If possible never tow with an automatic and if you do, get a supplementary transmission cooler and check/replace the fluid more often.                                                                            

[Joecar]

3 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

Manuals do not have a filter, any particulate from wear settles to the bottom and is removed when the oil is drained.

 

Automatics do have a filter and it should be replaced when the fluid is replaced every 30k miles under severe conditions that could be extended to 50k miles for normal conditions. Heat is what destroys an automatic so check the fluid level at least monthly and note any color change from the bright see through ruby red. Nissan automatics use DEXRON ATF and your 720 takes about 6 US qts. The oil pan has to come off to drain and get the filter off. Fill only till the dipstick reads to the full line.

 

The torque converter and transmission cooling lines are still full of old fluid. Find the coolant lines on the driver's side of the transmission. Off hand I don't know which is which so loosen the banjo fitting and take one off. Have a pan handy to catch any spilled fluid. Very briefly, start the engine while someone watches and shut off ASAP. If fluid comes out of the transmission put the line back on and tighten it. Switch to the other line... this is the return from the radiator.  Now you can start the engine and the transmission will push new fluid into the torque converter and the old out through the cooling lines and flush them. Constantly stop the engine, check the transmission dip stick and top it up. Watch the color of the fluid as it exits the pipe. Once it clears to bright ruby red you're done. It's unavoidable that some mixing of the old and new ATF will occur in the torque converter so the change from old to new AFT wont be sudden. If the old ATF is badly discolored I would definitely flush out the torque converter but if clean but just old you could skip this part. Perhaps buy 2 extra qts for flushing.

 

Never overfill an automatic.    

Never over heat an automatic. Think of McDonalds rancid deep fryer oil.

If possible never tow with an automatic and if you do, get a supplementary transmission cooler and check/replace the fluid more often.                                                                            

Ok i was thinking that manuals have a filter

[seattle smitty]

I'm surprised nobody else mentioned this, so maybe I'm a pessimist, but with a gasohol-powered engine of any kind that has sat for four years, I would expect nasties anywhere and everywhere in the fuel system.  Any more, when reviving an old car, boat, bike, lawn mower, whatever, I remove and clean the tank without a second thought.  The crap in an old gasohol-fueled system will likely be picked up by the fresh gasohol you put in it, and a stunning amount of it can get past a new Fram fuel filter.  Modern pump gas is fine for daily- drivers and other frequently-used engines.  in seasonally-used items like chainsaws, gen-sets, and boats, it is awful.  And you can't save it with fuel stabilizers.

[datzenmike]

We use up to 10% ethanol up here and I have never seen this problem. I have a weed eater and the container of mix lasts about 5 years and sits outside all year under cover. The gas in the tank is what fires it up every spring on the 3rd pull. Maybe there is something, or something lacking it a northern climate?

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Our gasoline here is ok for almost a year. Without stabilizer.

[datzenmike]

So what exactly does the stabilizer prevent? What happens to your gas that goes wrong when stored?

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

They change the fuel mix so often, it's hard to keep up. I don't know, is the answer to your first question. What looks like calcium buildup is the usual result of bad (modern) gas.

[Joecar]

22 hours ago, seattle smitty said:

I'm surprised nobody else mentioned this, so maybe I'm a pessimist, but with a gasohol-powered engine of any kind that has sat for four years, I would expect nasties anywhere and everywhere in the fuel system.  Any more, when reviving an old car, boat, bike, lawn mower, whatever, I remove and clean the tank without a second thought.  The crap in an old gasohol-fueled system will likely be picked up by the fresh gasohol you put in it, and a stunning amount of it can get past a new Fram fuel filter.  Modern pump gas is fine for daily- drivers and other frequently-used engines.  in seasonally-used items like chainsaws, gen-sets, and boats, it is awful.  And you can't save it with fuel stabilizers.

I thought of that and already cleaned the by removing old gas and filter and replacing it with good fuel

[seattle smitty]

Well, now I'm more surprised, that two credible guys here aren't seeing problems with old gasohol.  As a little retirement job I work three days a week for a guy with a small engine shop, and easily 90% of the problems we see are fuel-related.  I did this work for a summer many years ago, and yes, there were a lot of fuel problems then, just due to poor customer practices and the fact that small engines have small carburetors metering small fuel flows through tiny screens and passages that are easily plugged up with contaminants.  The same was true for the outboard motors upon which I began my working life.  But the amount of fuel issues. and the variation in the presentation of the crud (little waxy balls, green slime, crusty stuff, the hard build-ups that have to be drilled out, and more) are amazing.  The tiny black specks we often see in the float bowls of older machines, are, we speculate, bits of rubber shed from the inner surface of fuel hose, and I assume we have all been told to replace the soft lines every several years, even before we notice checking or cracking from the outside.  At the shop we always empty the fuel from any customer machine into a glass jar.  Of course, we see lots of tiny floaters and bigger debris from poor fuel storage and handling.  FWIW,  when I lived in or spent time in Alaska long ago, no bush pilot with any sense of self-preservation would ever add fuel to his aircraft except through a genuine chamois cloth, and coastal fishermen there were similarly fastidious.  All private pilots also check their wing drains to catch condensed water, and in the old days vehicles and tractors were often fitted with an excellent device called a Gascolator, an inline fuel-screen and drain with a removable glass sump that would catch water, rust, etc..  In the same old days one might occasionally put a can of "gas drier" (methyl rather than ethyl alcohol) to pick up any water that came from condensation or from a fuel supplier that was having problems.  One of the positives (my opinion) of gasohol is that, assuming you start with a clean dry fuel system and use the engine frequently, the ethanol should tend to keep the system clean and water-free on a constant basis. Just don't overload the ethanol.  In our sampling jar we often see gas the looks cloudy.  With a closer look we can see that the ethanol is at or near its saturation point, with a billion teeny tiny bubbles of water suspended in the "fuel."  The next level of water contamination shows as a big obvious bubble sliding around the bottom of our jar .  .  .  it's surprising how many owners seem to have thought their mowers should have run with a tank of 20-30% water!!  We try to tell customers that with today's gas, DON'T do like we used to and fill up a 5-gallon can for all your small engine uses for the next year and a half.  Instead, fill a TWO-gallon or even a ONE-gallon gas can so you use it up fast.  The least-bad indication we see in our glass jar is fuel that is clean and dry, but is turning yellow with age, and it doesn't seem to take very damned much age.  This stuff evidently has evaporated its lighter fractions and some vapor pressure;  the engine might run on it if you remove the air cleaner and get it to light off on ether.  It does also make decent cleaning solvent.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I formed my personal determination to remove and clean the tank of any non-running vehicle I buy before ever starting it from an experience maybe fifteen years ago.  I found a car I thought I might like as a keeper, a 1986 Dodge Colt Vista, a compact 4-cyl, 5-speed, 2/4wd wagon by Mitsubishi with a good long-travel suspension and big brakes.  I did everything to that car:  All new steering, new brakes, rebuilt tranny, and a completely overhauled and Very moderately hopped-up  engine (with your and my favorite 32/36 Weber carb).  Evidently someone else liked the car and my work;  it was stolen and stripped last year.  Anyway,  with the new engine installed and ready to test-fire, I got a fresh 5-gallon can of Chevron.  knowing there might at least be some rust in a tank that had sat for 3-4 years, I poured about a gallon of my fresh gas in the tank and sloshed it back and forth as best I could by bouncing the car from all directions. I then drained the tank and refilled it with the remaining four gallons of Chevron, my favorite.  The engine started easily and ran smoothly at about 1500 rpm, which I figured is a good place to start with a well-lubed mild cam.  After a bit i tried different throttle settings, all a somewhat high idle, and everything seemed well.  But at about ten minutes in the run the engine began sounding unhappy, and it got worse.  This many years later I can't say what it sounded like, or what my first ideas were after having shut down the engine.  But at some point I pulled the carb.  Underneath, in the intake manifold, was a gooey pinkish deposit of unknown composition but evidently fuel-related.  I unbolted the intake, and there was the same pink goo disappearing into the ports, my moderately-hand-improved ports, dammit!!  Yes, I ended up having to pull the head off my newly rebuilt OHC engine to clean up the mysterious pink snot!!  Just to warn anyone who has read this far and is thinking about his own project, whatever the stuff was, it had made its way through a brand new Fram fuel filter, carried by new Chevron pump gas from a fairly high-volume station.  Having then cleaned and reassembled my new engine, I took the tank out of the car,  submerged it for a night in the machine shop's hot tank, washed and dried and reinstalled it, replaced all the soft lines, and shot much of a can of carburetor cleaner into the hard lines and blew it out with compressed air.  And bought another Fram filter and another five gallons of Chevron.  Never had another problem and drove the car daily for many years.

[datzenmike]

My weed eater is at least 10 years old (engine says 2009 on it) Never touched it, what ever gas is in it sits all winter outside under cover, Pacific North West so it rains mostly and freezes several times per season. Old gallon of mix (up to 10% ethanol) will last me about 5 years, also stored out doors. Top it up in the spring and 3 pulls it fires up. What else can I say? Must have different gas up here.

[Veraciousreasoning]

14 hours ago, datzenmike said:

My weed eater is at least 10 years old (engine says 2009 on it) Never touched it, what ever gas is in it sits all winter outside under cover, Pacific North West so it rains mostly and freezes several times per season. Old gallon of mix (up to 10% ethanol) will last me about 5 years, also stored out doors. Top it up in the spring and 3 pulls it fires up. What else can I say? Must have different gas up here.

 

Weed eaters are two stroke engines and if it's a sthil it's impossible to break those damn things. I got 4 chainsaws and 2 week eaters that are sthil and I never drain the gas ether.