New 32/36 DGEV jetting

[Charlie69]

Here is another Link that might help not the one I remember but might help.  You have to love the way PhotoBucket has fucked up so many how tos and other threads all over the internet!

 

Scroll down to Curb Idle Throttle Plate Position

 

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/weber-set-up-tune-discussion-1051137/

 

Still looking for other information on the net to help.

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Charlie69

[Charlie69]

Here is AFR info also.

 

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/251034-using-new-afr-meter-and-tuning-3236-weber/

[matrophy]

3 minutes ago, Charlie69 said:

Here is another Link that might help not the one I remember but might help.  You have to love the way PhotoBucket has fucked up so many how tos and other threads all over the internet!

 

Scroll down to Curb Idle Throttle Plate Position

 

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/weber-set-up-tune-discussion-1051137/

 

That Photobucket watermark is brutal. I saw this and thats how I determined that the progression holes were correctly oriented but he stopped short of talking about how the valves are supposed to fit. 

[Charlie69]

Not sure if these pics will help but these are of a new Weber 32/36 DGEV I have for one of my trucks.  With the carb in Idle position no progression holes are visible.  This Weber has not been installed or tuned.  Fresh out of box.  Might 2 older carbs that have been tuned look the same.  Cannot see any progression hole opening from the bottom of the carb.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Charlie69 said:

Here is AFR info also.

 

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/251034-using-new-afr-meter-and-tuning-3236-weber/

What’s funny about mine is that it runs at around stoich in every condition: idling, cruising which is good but also at accelerating, WOT and under load when it should be rich. I don’t really care about WOT because I never stomp on my baby but would like to have better throttle response when accelerating in town. I had to up my idle jet because it was lean at idle according to the mixture screw turns. I’m gonna fill it with carb cleaner and see if the primary leaks or if I am just freaking myself out. If it leaks maybe that’s why I had to increase the idle jet

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4 minutes ago, Charlie69 said:

Not sure if these pics will help but these are of a new Weber 32/36 DGEV I have for one of my trucks.  With the carb in Idle position no progression holes are visible.  This Weber has not been installed or tuned.  Fresh out of box.  Might 2 older carbs that have been tuned look the same.  Cannot see any progression hole opening from the bottom of the carb.

 

 

Mine is the same way unless the speed screw is cranked down past what they recommend. As your looking at the valves, the stamping on the bottom is upside down. Does the top valve read right side up? That’s how I have mine.

[Charlie69]

What are you refering to as "top valve"?

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Just now, Charlie69 said:

What are you refering to as "top valve"?

The top valve in the bottom picture. Sorry

[Charlie69]

The stamping "78^o" is visible from the bottom and oriented towards each other.

[Charlie69]

I just ordered 2 weber books.

Haynes Weber Carburetor Manual

Weber Carb Tuning Manual - RX2132

 

With these books I hope to be able to give more technical advice and images.

[matrophy]

9 hours ago, Charlie69 said:

I just ordered 2 weber books.

Haynes Weber Carburetor Manual

Weber Carb Tuning Manual - RX2132

 

With these books I hope to be able to give more technical advice and images.

I have Pat Braden's Weber book and while it's got some good info, it doesn't cover this situation in much detail. I'm going to check that the throttle shaft isn't bent today. I see that the secondary valve closes tight as a drum so it stands to reason that the primary side should too. I'm going to keep trying to get it to seal by trying different minute position adjustments. My valve is a little scratched up from all this adjusting but the edges are intact. I may have to buy a new one to try in case it got jacked up somehow. Too bad it's a 3-day weekend. Never thought I would EVER say that.

[Charlie69]

Did you re-stake the throttle shaft screws after installing the bearings?  This is the easiest way to bend a shaft.

[matrophy]

41 minutes ago, Charlie69 said:

Did you re-stake the throttle shaft screws after installing the bearings?  This is the easiest way to bend a shaft.

No. I used Locktite. I opened up the filter on the top cover and found what looks like pieces of rubber hose or fuel line caught in the filter and some of the pieces were real small. I'm wondering if the progression holes might be clogged so I'm going to  blow them out and/or clean everything with carb cleaner and try and figure out which hose is shredding.

[Charlie69]

These peices are most likely in the needle and seat.

[matrophy]

1 hour ago, Charlie69 said:

These peices are most likely in the needle and seat.

Just having my lunch break.

 

I cleaned out what I could and didn't find any fuel hoses that were shedding so I am hoping that the detritus is only from me cutting and rerouting the double fuel line and hoses and the problem is gone.

 

What I am dealing with now is that the shaft bearing on the linkage side will not slide over the shaft inside the bore. I wonder if it was never seated and I didn't notice it. I'm going to see if I can emery cloth that section of the shaft just a little to get it to slide over.

 

I got the throttle valve to seal perfectly but couldn't get the screws in straight. The throttle shaft LOOKS straight by holding a straightedge along the shaft at all 4 axes but the fact that the valve won't line up with the holes and completely close makes me wonder if either the shaft or the valve is off somehow that I can't see - or if a tiny gap is normal.

 

If there is a tiny gap in the valve with the speed screw completely backed off, the only thing that will be affected - assuming it's a very small gap - is the idle speed screw adjustment and not the progression circuit which is where I'm running lean. What do you think? Maybe a tiny gap is OK in the grand scheme. I can get the valve attacjhed to the shaft with a tiny gap but not when completely closed.

 

 

[matrophy]

When will I ever learn? I couldn't get my throttle valve to close completely once I screwed it in. I ordered a new throttle valve and shaft from Carbs Unlimited (only because they are in Washington and I'm in Oregon so it's less time in transit) and they arrived and the valve looks used - like they took an emery cloth to it and tried to clean it up. The stamping is virtually unreadable. The chamfered edge looks good unlike mine which is a little beat up. If it goes back together and there's no gap I'm golden but I'll NEVER order from them again. 

 

Anyway, Charlie - I wanted to ask about the linkage. The instructions from Redline say to tighten the nut hand-tight then 1 turn of the flat if the nut more. When I do that, there is still play in the throttle lever so I have been tightening it down until there's no play. Doesn't seem to bind and it seems like the lever shouldn't be able to move but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

[Charlie69]

The way I do it is tighten it up snug and work the throttle shaft if there is still play/slop then continue tightening one nut flat turn and recheck.  The idea here is to get the play out but still have a smooth working and returning throttle shaft.  You have to remeber most of thes "Redline" instructions are just starting points and you have to decide the final adjustments as needed.

 

Man deal with Pierce Manifolds and quit fucking yourself!  There I said it!  LOL

 

With the float valves fully opened manually and the idle speed screw backed off not touching.

First picture is Primary throttle valve second picture is secondary throttle valve.

 

Apologize about the blury pictures Holding camera in one hand and holding the choke open and the carb over the flashlight with the other hand.  I might need a new camera.  Well the camera did not pickup the light ring around the primary valve from the LED flash light under the carb.  The primary valve has a very samall gap all the way around the valve the secondary is tight no light passes through.  This is a new Carb purchased from Carbs Unlimited a few years ago.  Bought this from them to check out their customer service.  They will not see any more of my money!

Edited June 4, 2021 by Charlie69

[mainer311]

The primary should be slightly cracked, but not uncovering the first transition hole. The secondary should be completely closed, like described above.

 

A few posts back you mention it's "sluggish" between gears. My 32/36 DGV was always like this, and I couldn't solve it. I tried bigger idle jets and it actually got worse. There was a dead spot directly at throttle tip-in, and then the carb would pick right back up. Funny enough, my new DCOE 40's had the same problem, and the only way to fix it was to drill another progression hole. Believe it or not, I think that it is a common modification done to DGV's as well. The other thing that can be done to "fudge" this lean spot is to richen up the idle screw a little bit. Maybe 1/8 to 1/4 turn out beyond where it currently is. This will fatten up the idle a little, but it may help with the gap jump to the first progression hole. 

 

 

[mainer311]

Something else I just thought of. They say the idle throttle stop (idle speed screw) should be no more than 1-1/2 turns in from not touching. However, they don't mention that if the screw is not turned in enough, the butterfly needs to make a bigger jump to get to the first progression hole. This in turn causes a dead spot. It's possible that by properly adjusting the idle speed screw, you'll end up with a high idle. It's a trade-off really. You could always try raising your idle 100rpm and see if that has any bearing on your problem.

[Charlie69]

9 hours ago, mainer311 said:

The primary should be slightly cracked, but not uncovering the first transition hole. The secondary should be completely closed, like described above.

 

A few posts back you mention it's "sluggish" between gears. My 32/36 DGV was always like this, and I couldn't solve it. I tried bigger idle jets and it actually got worse. There was a dead spot directly at throttle tip-in, and then the carb would pick right back up. Funny enough, my new DCOE 40's had the same problem, and the only way to fix it was to drill another progression hole. Believe it or not, I think that it is a common modification done to DGV's as well. The other thing that can be done to "fudge" this lean spot is to richen up the idle screw a little bit. Maybe 1/8 to 1/4 turn out beyond where it currently is. This will fatten up the idle a little, but it may help with the gap jump to the first progression hole. 

 

 

The later model 32/36 has another port drilled to help eliminate this.  I have the hesitation in all my Weber DG series that happens if I stomp the throttled.  This is worse on a cold engine.  If I just lay into the throttle no problem.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Charlie69

[Draker]

1 hour ago, mainer311 said:

The primary should be slightly cracked, but not uncovering the first transition hole. The secondary should be completely closed, like described above.

 

A few posts back you mention it's "sluggish" between gears. My 32/36 DGV was always like this, and I couldn't solve it. I tried bigger idle jets and it actually got worse. There was a dead spot directly at throttle tip-in, and then the carb would pick right back up. Funny enough, my new DCOE 40's had the same problem, and the only way to fix it was to drill another progression hole. Believe it or not, I think that it is a common modification done to DGV's as well. The other thing that can be done to "fudge" this lean spot is to richen up the idle screw a little bit. Maybe 1/8 to 1/4 turn out beyond where it currently is. This will fatten up the idle a little, but it may help with the gap jump to the first progression hole. 

 

 

 

I had this too on an old carb I got with a L20B I bought. I cleaned the shit out of that carb and got it running perfect, except for this tip-in bog. I thought for sure the carb was just worn out. Then others commented said it's common. Over the years I hear so many people complain about this. Even on brand new webers jetted for L motors. Super annoying.. and still waiting for a true fix. 

 

I fixed it by replacing with Z Therapy SU's and those are still running great. lol

[mainer311]

2 hours ago, Charlie69 said:

The later model 32/36 has another port drilled to help eliminate this.  I have the hesitattion in all my Weber Dg series that happens if I stomp the throttled.  This is worce on a cold engine.  If I just lay into the throttle no problem.

 

Right, but that's not the same problem. You're just opening the secondary too soon.

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15 hours ago, Charlie69 said:

The way I do it is tighten it up snug and work the throttle shaft if there is still play/slop then continue tightening one nut flat turn and recheck.  The idea here is to get the play out but still have a smooth working and returning throttle shaft.  You have to remeber most of thes "Redline" instructions are just starting points and you have to decide the final adjustments as needed.

 

Man deal with Pierce Manifolds and quit fucking yourself!  There I said it!  LOL

 

With the float valves fully opened manually and the idle speed screw backed off not touching.

First picture is Primary throttle valve second picture is secondary throttle valve.

 

Apologize about the blury pictures Holding camera in one hand and holding the choke open and the carb over the flashlight with the other hand.  I might need a new camera.  Well the camera did not pickup the light ring around the primary valve from the LED flash light under the carb.  The primary valve has a very samall gap all the way around the valve the secondary is tight no light passes through.  This is a new Carb purchased from Carbs Unlimited a few years ago.  Bought this from them to check out their customer service.  They will not see any more of my money!

I installed the new valve and shaft and it fits with absolutely no air gap so I'll put it back on the truck and proceed. I think I may have created my own problem here by pre-emptively changing the shaft bushings to bearings and possibly jacking up either the shaft or the valve in the process. 2 of the minor parts that I bought - the lock washer with tab and the wavy washer  - didn't fit the shaft even though the part numbers supposedly matched. I swear the lock washer looks like a knockoff. It's a different material than the original. I can't imagine that someone would try and skimp by selling a $2.95 part that is not OEM but that's kinds what it looks like. I filed it out and got it to work but who needs the aggravation ffs? I haven't gotten a definitive answer on adjusting mixture screw by ear or by the afr gauge and this time I'm going to tune it by ear and let the afr reading be whatever it is and go from there. It wants to run rich by ear and I was tweaking it a little to get it close to stoich and thereby leaning it out.

[matrophy]

The saga continues: The throttle doesn't close all the way to the speed screw. I can get it to close all the way by pushing down on the fast idle control rod. It acts like it's binding at the primary control lever but I can't find the magic amount of tightening/loosening the nut on the linkage. I listed the order of linkage parts here to be sure that I have everything and everything in the right order - Charlie,  looked at the photo that you sent earlier that shows the linkage and mine matches yours as far as I can tell:

Bearing

Spring

Primary Throttle Control Lever

Loose Lever bushing

Loose Lever

Flat Washer

Cable Linkage

Lock Washer

Nut

 

The other thing is that the fast idle linkage is sloppy and seems loose. There's a screw that holds the fast idle loose lever together (#75) on the diagram but I can't get at the screw to see if tightening it up helps because it's blocked by the carb body. I'm wondering if this linkage was a little tighter if it would help pull the throttle linkage back to the idle screw stop. 

i'll send a video in a minute

 

[matrophy]

Here is a video of the fast idle linkage and how it seems awfully loose and a photo of my linkage setup