Fuel pump I.D.

[pidge]

Hey guys. I’m getting a little drip drip drip from the fuel pump somewhere. I checkEd the inlet and outlet lines and those are dry to the touch. Can’t tell yet where it’s coming from. Long story short, before I pull the pump (old mechanical style) could the powers give me some in-site if Ive ordered the correct pump. I just checked one of the two DIY books I’ve got and the old pic in the book looks a lot different than the pump I got from the usual suspects; Thailand. Anywho here’s some pics of the said pump. By the way it’s a 69’ 521 with the j13. I took a pic of the page which only leads me to more confusion. (Fig.24B is supposed to be for a j13, but pic describes it as a L series motor???) I don’t know. 

[pidge]

Don’t know why the pics are sideways. Sorry bout that. 
-Pidge 

[DanielC]

Figure 24B is a L-16, L18, L20-B fuel pump.  It has the long curved lever that rides on the eccentric on the front end of the camshaft on the over head cam engines.

The J-13 has an eccentric on the camshaft, somewhere in the middle of the engine block.  The short lever on the new pump you have should work.

If the outside of the fuel pump looks different than the one you are replacing, that is not an issue.  Look at the lever, is it as long as the old one, with the same bends?  Does it reach the same distance in the engine?  That is the important part.

 

By the way, I used your picture of the engine compartment on your truck to show me how to route the the windshield washer hose on my 521 trucks.   Thanks

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by DanielC

[pidge]

Glad to hear the those pics worked in your favour...nice!........that’s what has me concerned regarding the pics in the book and what the new part looks like. The pics in the book have a long arm and the actual part has a shorter looking with less sweep upwards. Thanks for the info on the “may look different, as long as the arm is the same part”of your awnswer. I haven’t removed the old one yet. Before I get into it I was wanting a heads up on what I’ve got. I know manuals sometimes can goof up from time to time. I’m not perfect lol. 
thank you for the response. You’ve boosted my confidence. 
-Pidge

Edited July 9, 2020 by pidge

[pidge]

Just an update. It was a complete failure. New pump has the wrong arm. Pulled the stock pump and the arm has a bigger up-sweep than the new one. Believe I found where the leak was coming from. I think by the looks of it the leak is internal to the bottom portion of the pump. It seemed to be dripping out of where the arm portion is which can’t be good. That would mean gas is going into the oil. Dose that make sense?? How I wasn’t getting a steady stream of oil out that little weep hole has me boggled, but perhaps I was. The lower portion of the motor dose have a mess of oil and maybe I’m correct in thinking that oil and gas were coming out that little weep hole. I call it a weep hole, but I think it might be a equalizer hole (not sure the correct terminology) for the diaphragm. Anywho I’m on the lookout again for the correct mechanical pump. I’ve got some pics I took of the old and new smashed pump. Not really smashed just tried to see if we could mix and match parts, but that didn’t work so hot. If anyone has any links to a pump I would be forever grateful. Thanks 

-Pidge

 

this is the stock pump. Notice the up-sweep on the arm compared to the new one. 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by pidge

[datzenmike]

The new one's arm isn't showing.

 

If you can't get the correct one can you press that pivot pin out and swap arms???

 

Better yet swap the diaphragms. I don't think gas should be below the diaphragm or all pumps would leak gas there

[pidge]

I’m with you on there shouldn’t be gas in the lower portion. That doesn’t seem right to me ether. While the old one was out I did look at that option of swapping the arms. I don’t have a close up pic of the old one, but it look as if you could use a drift pin and smack it out. Mind you it had a bunch of crud on it. The new one however, and I’ll take a pic has these ball bearing looking pieces somehow pressed into the casting. Tried the diaphragm route. New pumps in pieces now. New ones not serviceable...at least the bottom portion ain’t. 

This is the top portion. These are all of the new pump by the way. 

removing the diaphragm resulted in breaking the little cast piece that hooks under the pivot arm.

hard to tell, but a little tee piece broke off when trying to remove the diaphragm. 

 

different gasket as well from the stock one. Sorry don’t have a pic of the stock gasket, but I can tell you the opening was much narrower. 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by pidge

[pidge]

Shoot my bad.  Here’s the “presses in” part I was talking about. Both sides look the same by the way. 
 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by pidge

[pidge]

Pics for future reference.....yeah mike it did have a ball bearing on each side holding the pin in on the new pump. 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by pidge

[Crashtd420]

This is one thing that sucks about these old truck, I hate and dont understand how some parts like this get sold....  If you look for a j13 fuel pump they show the one you bought.... clearly the wrong arm..... 

Seen this on ebay if it helps.... little pricey but correct...

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274389451754

 

 

 

[Crashtd420]

[datzenmike]

1 hour ago, pidge said:

Pics for future reference.....yeah mike it did have a ball bearing on each side holding the pin in on the new pump. 

 

 

 

 

The intent is that it will never come loose. When pressing it back together make sure it takes some effort so it's tight.

[pidge]

-Oh it’s beyond repair now Mike. 
 

-Crashed420 thanks for the link. Not the first time Ive been duped into buying the wrong part. I’ll look into that pump. It looks like the correct arm. Thanks man. 
-Pidge

 

[KELMO]

FWIW, the "E" motor and the "A" motor a very similar. I'll have a look see around tomorrow and see if I have one floating about.

Does your fuel pump mount about the middle of the block?

[pidge]

That’s right Kelmo it dose mount near the middle of the block. I’ve just gone and ordered the one Crashed420 had the link to. It looks to be the correct one this time around. What do you mean by “E” and “A” motor? Can’t recall that coding used before. Thanks. 
-Pidge

Edited July 12, 2020 by pidge

[KELMO]

Yes, your throw arm should be short like the one in his link.

I should have looked at that, D'oh🤪

[pidge]

That’s ok Kelmo no worries man. 

[KELMO]

What do you mean by “E” and “A” motor? Can’t recall that coding used before. Thanks. 
-Pidge

Edited 9 hours ago by pidge

 

Motor families: A12, A14, A15 or L16, L18, L20. Some of the earlier trucks and 411/410's had ""E" motors.

Or were they "J" motors?

Does your valve cover look similar to this one?

[KELMO]

Just looked at a '65 410, it has an "E" motor in it. The fuel pump is on the drivers side of the block.

 

[pidge]

Something similar. Mines a “J” series. I understand what you mean now though.

On another note I got very lucky today. Guy on Kijiji had a few of these pumps for sale. Same brand as the stock one, same everything pretty much. Put it in and all is good. Pumped it by hand a bunch of times and found no internal leakage. 

 

Old vs new

old 

new

side shot of the pivot arms

 

 

installed and working

Edited July 12, 2020 by pidge

[pidge]

Side note for anyone looking for doing something similar. The one from Thailand had a much thicker mounting surface. I know it ended up being the wrong pump, but if it happened to fit the studs holding it on would likely be to short. This might not be the case always, but something to look out for. 

[pidge]

Keep thinking....here’s a comparison of the gaskets. Now I don’t know if anyone’s messed with this before, but it doesn’t leak with the factory style pump I got this morning and gasket that came with the pump. You can see the stock one is different than the Thailand one and the new old stock one I got today. 
 

 

 

 

 

side note...I’m doing this off my phone using the new method of adding pics and they seem to randomly show up sideways or upside down. Sorry, but they look good before I hit the send button. After that they flip themselves. 
-Pidge

Edited July 12, 2020 by pidge

[pidge]

Was able to score another today from the same fella just as a spare. I believe he’s got one more he told me. For the Ontario boys this fella has a booth at the Barrie Flea Market usually. If a member needs one let me know and I’ll give out the contact info. It was another $60 CAD, not bad considering and made a new friend. 
 

[pidge]

Anyone know why the photos go sideways?

[datzenmike]

 

17010-21002 ??