Project: Ol' Sparky 620

[Negative Ghostrider]

28 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

You should be using NGK B6ES plugs on a Nissan, and probably why they don't tighten properly. If the carburetor was running rich all the plugs would be fouled not just the middle

two. Looks like oil. The right most one is suspiciously too clean.

 

Are they in order 4, 3, 2, 1 left to right?

 

I think 1, 2, 3, 4 left to right. I recall I pulled 4 first since it was weeping and I had wiped it a bit before I took the photo, so good call on it looking different. It looked more or less like the middle two. These are the plugs the previous owner had put in it. Guy knew his way around wrenches so I assumed they were a valid substitute. I have no issues getting different plugs. 

Quote

 

This engine has not been getting proper oil  and filter changes. That's what that brownish red stain on everything is. You should be running an oil with high ZDDP levels not the stuff they use today in newer cars. I like Shell Rotella T4 which is a diesel oil and high in detergent that will help keep the insides clean.

OK. Time for an oil change then. Recommendations for a filter as well? Or just something compatible? 

 

Quote

What head is that? W53?? look at bottom of head where it meets the block between the #1 and #2 spark plugs. If W53 even if it's a closed chamber head it's too large a combustion chamber and will give an 8.2 compression when the stock head is almost 8.6.

 

Yes, it says w53. Great. Do I have a Frankenmotor or something? I opened the box with the extra parts that the previous owner gave me. It looks like the carb that was on it was also a weber. "Japan" cast into the body. It wouldn't surprise me if this motor had been moneyed with somewhere up the line. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Negative Ghostrider

[datzenmike]

#4 is the far right? Are you replacing rad water every week or few days?

 

 

Look directly behind the dip stick handle on the flat surface. Clean it off and it should say L16 does it?

[Negative Ghostrider]

32 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

#4 is the far right? Are you replacing rad water every week or few days?

 

 

Look directly behind the dip stick handle on the flat surface. Clean it off and it should say L16 does it?

 

If I recall correctly 4 was far right. 99% sure. I haven't replaced any fluids yet. It's barely been driven though, and my hot water cock is leaking regardless. 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Negative Ghostrider

[datzenmike]

Thank-you.

 

L16s are the only engine to come with a 'number' head In this case a 210. The W53 is more of an L18 head in Japan. The 210 head has a smaller combustion chamber and 8.58 compression. I think it likely that the head is from an import engine. 

[Negative Ghostrider]

20 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Thank-you.

 

L16s are the only engine to come with a 'number' head In this case a 210. The W53 is more of an L18 head in Japan. The 210 head has a smaller combustion chamber and 8.58 compression. I think it likely that the head is from an import engine. 

 

Fantastic 😒

 

So now what? Do I have to tear it open and see what pistons I have? I hear people talking about peanuts and whatnot but I haven't paid much attention, honestly. Is this head OK with the right internals or am I just SOL and looking at a head swap or rebuild or something? Besides garbage performance from low compression what do I risk from driving it as-is for a while? 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Negative Ghostrider

[datzenmike]

Nothing of the kind. I was just noticing things. Had you check that this was an L16 just in case it might have been an L18 which would have made more sense. 

 

Get it running a well as possible. Maybe a compression test to check on those two middle cylinders. Drive it for a while and get that oil changed. Maybe a few miles will help clean it out.

[Negative Ghostrider]

17 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Nothing of the kind. I was just noticing things. Had you check that this was an L16 just in case it might have been an L18 which would have made more sense. 

 

Get it running a well as possible. Maybe a compression test to check on those two middle cylinders. Drive it for a while and get that oil changed. Maybe a few miles will help clean it out.

 

OK. Thanks. Your expertise is invaluable to newbies like me. I'm just getting a little frustrated with all the little surprises as I go. I just have to keep reminding myself that this is my first serious project and that it's all par for the course, and learning opportunities. This probably explains why the head studs seemed overtorqed when I checked them. I need to test compression anyway. And probably vacuum. And timing. Also need to figure out the 32/36. It's my first carb (to work on) and I have no idea how it's set up. Texted the PO and he said he just threw it on straight out of the box and adjusted the idle. I don't know what jets it has on it or anything and apparently he doesn't either. What I've read makes me think they come with an assortment and you have to install the correct ones but I'm not even sure. I may just have to call weber on Monday. 🤷‍♂️ 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Negative Ghostrider

[Crashtd420]

11 hours ago, Negative Ghostrider said:

 

Fantastic 😒

 

So now what? Do I have to tear it open and see what pistons I have? I hear people talking about peanuts and whatnot but I haven't paid much attention, honestly. Is this head OK with the right internals or am I just SOL and looking at a head swap or rebuild or something? Besides garbage performance from low compression what do I risk from driving it as-is for a while? 

 

You could look into a spark plug hole with a flashlight...

A stock piston would be dished... if you are lucky some flat top pistons were swapped in.... 

Also they make some cheap bore scopes that plug right into a cellphone if you wanna get a good look....

 

And yes the head is ok with the right internals.... I have an L16 with the w53 head, but i have modified internals.. the only real upgrade needed are the flat top pistons to keep the compression ratio at a good level...  

I dont think your risking anything, just a little power, but dont quote me on that..

 

Give this a read... explains the different heads....

http://dimequarterly.blogspot.com/2012/02/tech-how-to-l-series-cylinder-head.html?m=1

[banzai510(hainz)]

Someone hasn’t changed the oil on this.

 

back when Datsun was first sold people abused them like cast iron V8s not changing out oil and antifreeze.overheat them And thus the common made in Japan crap saying.but really now it’s a common trait to change out since everything is now aluminum.

 

oil in the spark plus with oil coming out?

i have this also on one motor and just run it

[Negative Ghostrider]

So this may be a stupid question but does my configuration have different valve lash tolerances, carb settings, etc. than a "standard" L16? 

[Crashtd420]

Valve lash is the same, carburetor settings are debatable... should be close enough for now... 

Alot of carburetors are just thrown on a vehicle and never really tuned so there is always room for improvement there....

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Crashtd420

[EDM620]

Welcome to the fun & bliss of working on a 40+ year old truck! Good to see the progress you're making.

[Negative Ghostrider]

Entry 8 - Small victories. 

 

Juneuary weather has been persistent and kept me from getting much done the last few days. 😒

 

The last of my LEDs arrives so I finished installing those. No further issues, except my hazard switch is being flaky. I have to jiggle the knob to get the turn signals to work sometime. I think I need to take both this one and the old one apart and put the knob in the old one, since it seems to not have any consistency issues with the turn signals operating. 

 

My mirrors and antenna showed up. They look pretty good for how cheap they were. I wasn't going to put them on yet but I have been getting water in the cab with all the rain and these would fill some of the holes in the A-pillar and doors so I went ahead and put em on. 

 

I also temporarily patched up the remaining screw holes with some aluminum tape until I can weld them closed, and I put plastic sheeting on the inside of the doors as moisture barriers. That should keep water out of the footwells I hope. I have the window scraper gaskets but I'm going to wait to out those on until after paint because I don't want to screw them up removing them later. 

 

Talked with the folks at Weber/Redline about my carb. They weren't terribly helpful, said to call Triangle Auto to get jets and manuals. Guess I'll reach out to them next. I have no idea what they're gonna cost me. Hopefully not much. 

 

Thew some new looms on the plug wires to keep em sorted, since the one on the top of the valve cover was missing some teeth. 

 

If I'm lucky I will get a little time in tomorrow before I get swallowed up by my work week. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Negative Ghostrider

[Negative Ghostrider]

Well, my whole engine is turning into Pandora's box. I talked to Triangle about my carb, sent them pics and they say it's a Chinese knockoff and they can't/won't support it. Told me to cut my losses because they never seem to run right even if you mess with them forever. So now I don't know WTF to do. I have an older Weber that the PO removed to put the knockoff on. It's got "Japan" cast into the body so it may be legit. May have come along with the weird Japanese head I apparently have on the block. Who knows. It needs work, gaskets at least, but I'm going to see if Triangle will help with it. Even if they will I'll have to put a manual clutch cable back in, which will kind of suck. If they won't I may just have to order a new legit weber. That's gonna set me back. Probably can't get anything for the knockoff. FML. 

[datzenmike]

No Weber will say Japan on it. Who's Triangle??? Contact Pierce Manifolds for a genuine Weber, bolt it on and good to go. Order one with electric choke and idle cut solenoid.

[EDM620]

I agree with datzenmike - a true Weber will have Weber cast on it, anything else is a knockoff. It's possible that a GOOD knockoff will accept Weber jets etc. and any tuning process should work as intended. Like so many Chinese illegit knockoffs, you're on your own.

That being said, your options are limited. Try and fix the Japan-built copy, buy a new knockoff, or drop the big dollars and buy a legit Weber. That is the reason the knockoffs exist - Webers are expensive.

 

On my build, I'm presently overhauling the original Hitachi carb. If that doesn't work good enough, I'll upgrade to a Weber.

[Negative Ghostrider]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

No Weber will say Japan on it. Who's Triangle??? Contact Pierce Manifolds for a genuine Weber, bolt it on and good to go. Order one with electric choke and idle cut solenoid.

Triangle Auto is the official Weber distributor/servicer in Washington, apparently. It's who Redline told me to call for jets. 

[datzenmike]

Under $300 for a Weber, complete with adapter plate, gaskets, air filter and bolts/studs is actually pretty good. Dealer price for a '73 L16 carb is well over $600 not that they would even have one.

[Negative Ghostrider]

6 minutes ago, EDM620 said:

I agree with datzenmike - a true Weber will have Weber cast on it, anything else is a knockoff. It's possible that a GOOD knockoff will accept Weber jets etc. and any tuning process should work as intended. Like so many Chinese illegit knockoffs, you're on your own.

That being said, your options are limited. Try and fix the Japan-built copy, buy a new knockoff, or drop the big dollars and buy a legit Weber. That is the reason the knockoffs exist - Webers are expensive.

 

On my build, I'm presently overhauling the original Hitachi carb. If that doesn't work good enough, I'll upgrade to a Weber.

I'm not going to invest any money into the knockoff. It's not worth the headache and expense to most likely end up no better than where I left off. I'm either going to rebuild the Hitachi or drop the coin on the Weber. My brain is still spinning over my w53 head dilemma. Once I figure out if that's going to cost me money I'll decide on the carb I guess. 

[Negative Ghostrider]

Is there a resale market for the Hitachi? Any idea what it's worth. It's complete as far as I can tell. Just needs love. 

[EDM620]

I'm told that if the Hitachi works to just stick with it. In my build I have little hope to get much more power out of the engine (Z24) because other than a header, there wasn't ever much made for it. The porting work etc. I've done might gain me a few more ponies, realizing that it only produced 103 originally... 

[Negative Ghostrider]

3 minutes ago, EDM620 said:

I'm told that if the Hitachi works to just stick with it. In my build I have little hope to get much more power out of the engine (Z24) because other than a header, there wasn't ever much made for it. The porting work etc. I've done might gain me a few more ponies, realizing that it only produced 103 originally... 

I have the 3 speed automatic and I'm not looking to do heavy hauling with mine or race it or anything, so it's certainly an option. 

[datzenmike]

 Not much to wear out, mostly the accelerator pump. The big two problems are dirt and out of adjustment, true of all carburetors. I just take apart carefully and reuse the gaskets. Cleaning usually fixes most problems and careful settings/adjustments fix the rest. The Hitachi is much more complex but a better all round driver I think. The Weber is more sporty but you have to drive it. It's simpler so less can go wrong with it.

[Negative Ghostrider]

To backtrack a wee bit, while I was digging through the forums and trying to learn more about the different heads I saw in an old, old thread that the "late" L16s are "visibly different" from the "early" ones. What are some of the identifying features to tell the difference? I figure if I am going to make a discovery of something else weird, like maybe I have a late model block with my oversized head, I may as well do it sooner rather than later 😂

Edited June 17, 2020 by Negative Ghostrider

[Crashtd420]

I know of some difference but I'm not sure if was related to years....

There was something called M2 blocks, its cast into the side of the block..  I was told they were nissan replacement blocks... I have one of these...

Mine has the block vent tube that exits the top and routes to the back of the engine... most L16s I have seen the block vent came straight out between the exhaust....

I was told they are a little stronger, better casting or something... could be bullshit I dont know, just what I was told...