Carburetor Problem - Pictures - Help Won't idle

[Nicholas7620]

Hey everyone, My '76 Datsun B210 won't idle after choke kicks off. It will run if I keep the Rev's up. I can drive it but it's a pain having to throw it into neutral, brake with my left foot and keep the revs up with my right foot.

 

The problem started this A.M. I was 12 miles from home :( I had to drive home braking with my left foot and keeping the revs up with my right foot.

 

 

 

This is the big picture. The engine choke is off, the engine stopped running fine. It runs fine when the choke is on.

 

 

 

 

 

Some of my thoughts are. I 'm going to read my shop manual and find out where the idle adjustment can be manipulated. I'm not sure what kind of carburetor I have.

 

I bought the carburetor from Recarbco in Pittsburg, Ca. The carburetor has a one year warranty and I can ship the carburetor back and they will trouble shoot the carburetor.

 

I don't want to remove it and mail the Carb back unless I really have to. I'll call Recarbco tomorrow morning and see if they can help me find a solution.

 

Hopefully some one a Ratsun will read my thread and point me in the right direction. I've never had carburetor problems with my B210 for the 127,000 miles I drove it, it had 98k miles when I bought my B210. Grrrr.

 

Happy Halloween Everyone

 

Big Picture 2 - I kicked off the choke, and the engine promptly stopped running.

 

 

 

Picture 3 - I'm trying to show you Float Window on the Carburetor, next picture is better.

 

 

 

Picture 4 - you can see the float window better, everything looks ok to me.

 

 

 

 

Picture 5 - You can see my attempt to find a solution, I changed the fuel filter and installed an in line filter on the gas tank return line. I did this before all these pictures were taken it didn't help.

 

 

 

I can put another filter on the fuel line going to the carburetor from the fuel pump but I don't think it will help because the engine runs with the choke on and the fuel is clean and the float level is good. I'm off to read my '76 shop manual. I'll be waiting to see if I get any advice posted to my thread.

 

Best to all,

 

 

Nicholas

[Cuts metal like mad]

I would guess a problem with the idle jet... On that yeAr I'd bet it has an electric idle cutoff solenoid. Start there... Maybe the idle jet is clogged.

[Nicholas7620]

I'm going to have to check out my shop manual for that electric idle cutoff solenoid.

 

I read my shop manual and found an idle adjusting screw and decided to go looking for it on the carburetor.

 

I started looking on the right side. It didn't look promising. I couldn't find anything on the carburetor.

 

 

 

I took another picture of the right side again. I was tempted to take off that gold/brass plate and take a deeper look, instead I went back to the shop manual. Man, I couldn't figure out what the heck I was looking at or where anything related back to the manual.

 

 

 

I took a picture of the back of the carburetor facing the windshield. I saw a bunch of screws. I was wondering if I had the same carburetor as originally came with the car. I'll call Recarbco tomorrow and try to find out what kind of carburetor they sold me.

 

 

 

 

Something finally made sense. The red wire coming out of the carburetor is the anti-dieseling solenoid and the idle adjustment screw is to the left of the red wire. That's what it showed in the manual

 

 

 

 

 

 

I kept looking for that darn little idle adjustment screw. I couldn't see it and neither can you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As it turned out, the idling screw is directly under the middle black hose hiding. It is a flat head screw and I started up the engine and let it warm up. I kicked off the choke and turned the flat head screw/idle adjustment screw a fourth (1/4) of a turn. I was hard because the engine was vibrating and I couldn't keep my screwdriver on the screw.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The engine didn't die and I turned the engine off. I sprayed some carb cleaner on the carb and cleaned the outside. I put everything back together and started up the Datsun. The choke kicked in and the engine was running at a fast idle. After a few minutes, I kicked off the choke, expecting the Datsun to stop running.

 

Damn...:) the engine did not die. It idled just fine. In fact it sounded pretty darn good. I raced the engine a bunch of times, took my foot off the gas and no problem the Datsun B210 wouldn't die. It idled just fine.

 

I really didn't do much to the carburetor, just turn a screw a quarter of a turn and clean the body. I'll keep my fingers crossed tomorrow and take the B210 for a test of stop and go driving.

 

It's been about 45 days since I've had any carburetor problems. I'm sure I'm not out of the woods yet. I still might have to send the carburetor back and have the carburetor cleaned and recalibrated. I'll find out tomorrow how much I can tweak the warranty.

 

I still would like to get advice from Ratsun posters. Give me your advice for solving carburetor problems. Does someone recognize the carburetor as a Hitachi, or OEM carburetor.

 

Thanks

[]2eDeYe]

Is this a carb you just installed?

 

If so some adjustment is almost always needed. In the picture of the float window it appears that your floats are set a little low. The fuel level should be right at the dot on the glass.

[Nicholas7620]

2eDeYe;93199']Is this a carb you just installed? yes

 

If so some adjustment is almost always needed. In the picture of the float window it appears that your floats are set a little low. The fuel level should be right at the dot on the glass.

 

Right now the Float Window appears empty. :eek::eek: Checked the Window Sat AM, The fuel level is very high in the window almost completely to the top.

 

Today was a disappointment, my B210 wouldn't idle, the float window was totally empty. the Datsun wants to idle, it idles roughly and gradually fades out. The exhaust smell like crap, poorly burned exhaust smell. Yuk.

 

I checked the advance. The advance was set perfectly. That leaves the float. I don't know how to adjust the floats on a carburetor. It's back to the shop manual.

 

 

Does any know how to adjust the floats on a carburetor?

 

 

Do you have to remove the carburetor to adjust the floats on a carburetor?

Edited November 1, 2008 by Nicholas7620
ask question/add Sat AM information on float window

[hogboy52]

If the fuel level is that low it's more likely the fuel pump.

[datzenmike]

Pull the fuel hose off at carb and direct into a can and have someone crank it over. If the fuel pump is working it will gush out into the can.

 

No fuel in carb could be tank empty, filter plugged, tank line plugged. Fuel pump (see above to check) Carb float stuck in the up position and holding the needle valve closed. Not likely as it's more likely to be unable to close because of wear or dirt caught in the valve. Tap the carb with a block of wood to possibly shake the needle valve loose. Don't break it, just tap around the inlet.

[racerx]

yeh, go to your manual..I am familiar with adjusting float on 32/36. Perhaps is the same concept but you have to take the top half of carb and depending on type of float mech. some are made of plastic and some are brass.

[racerx]

Maybe this will help.

 

http://dimequarterly.tierranet.com/articles/tech_carb_tuning_guide.html

[Nicholas7620]

RacerX - That was an excellent article, loaded with information. I'm going to have to read that article more than once, some of the information was over my head. I still have to comply with California Smog Laws. Grrrr.

 

DatzenMike/Hogboy - I checked the fuel pump. Oh yeah, the gas came flying out. I was mistaken about the float window. The Float window was totally full and not empty. I wrongly concluded the window was empty when in fact it was full. When I checked the float window Sat. PM, the level had dropped and there was a slight air bubble showing that the window was 7/8ths full.

 

I had a stuck float needle about 45 days ago and I'm guessing that I have the same problem again.

 

My idling problem is better. My buddy Al was a mechanic for 6 years, back in the day before computers and Fuel injected engines. Al got my Datsun B210 to idle by turning the idle adjustment screw all the way in and screwing it back out until the engine just started to again idle poorly. The adjusting screw is 1.5 turns backed away from the totally screwed in position.

 

I took pictures. I put in an additional filter between the fuel pump and the carburetor to catch any varnish and crud. I think varnish and crud built up in my fuel lines/system because my Datsun B210 sat for five years without being driven. My B210 wouldn't pass smog in 2003 because of the carburetor (even though I was still getting 30+ MPG).

 

When Gas got up to $4.51 a gallon I decided to see if my B210 would start, sure enough the "atomic cockroach" fired right up. I ordered a rebuilt carb from Recarbco in Pittsburg, Ca. My B210 passed smog. A week after passing smog my carburetor float got stuck and was flooding the engine to the death. You could look inside the Carb and see gas flooding into the carburetor. The gas level covered the venturi tubes.

 

I installed three filters in my fuel system now. I'm trying to capture any dissolved gunks of varnish which might get caugh in my floats. The first filter is installed before the fuel pump to catch any varnish crud from the gas tank. A second filter is installed between the fuel pump and carburetor to catch any crud from the fuel pump. I installed an in-line filter in the gas tank return line to catch any varnish gunk returning to the gas tank. The only place varnish gunk can get into the carburetor is the carburetor intake fuel line.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I disconnected the fuel line and let the engine run out of gas, hopefully this will dry out the Carburetor. I'm hoping any crud in the float will dry out and fall out. In the next picture, the Float window is completely empty.

 

 

 

 

In the last picture, I just finished spraying carburetor cleaner down into the carburetor and I'm letting the carburetor dry out for a day or two until I can get back to working on the B210.

 

 

 

 

I'm think of tapping the carb with a block of wood to possibly shake the float needle valve loose of any dirt/crud as DatzenMike suggested. I may do the tapping a couple of different times. DatzenMike said "Don't break it :eek: :eek:, just tap around the inlet. OK, I'll tap the carb with a small block of wood around the inlet area of the carburetor. Hopefully, I'll dislodge any crud trapped in my float.

 

Thanks for the advice everyone. :cool:

Edited November 4, 2008 by Nicholas7620
fix typos

[Nicholas7620]

Pull the fuel hose off at carb and direct into a can and have someone crank it over. If the fuel pump is working it will gush out into the can.

 

No fuel in carb could be tank empty, filter plugged, tank line plugged. Fuel pump (see above to check) Carb float stuck in the up position and holding the needle valve closed. Not likely as it's more likely to be unable to close because of wear or dirt caught in the valve. Tap the carb with a block of wood to possibly shake the needle valve loose. Don't break it, just tap around the inlet.

 

I'm agreeing with DatzenMike that my float valve is unable to close because of dirt caught in the float. I'm drying out my carb and tapping on the air filter with a rubber hammer to dislodge (hopefully) any dirt and then trap that dirt in one of three filters I installed.

 

 

 

 

I created some vibration (hopefully) to the carb housing by polishing my EGR valve, radiator cap and air filter with a wire wheel. I know I'm stretching it here but it was fun polishing my radiator cap and removing white paint off my EGR valve and air filter.

 

 

See my shiny radiator cap, EGR valve and air filter. Tomorrow I'll try out my carburetor and see if I get a good reliable idle. Crossing my fingers.

 

 

I'll update thread after my experiment.

[Cruez]

I'm curious.. my 521 has the same issue....

 

Where is the idle jet located... ?

[datzenmike]

This is the fuel inlet needle that is open and closed by the float moving up and down. It may not be seating properly and a tap might be just what it needs to make it seal properly.

 

The idle jet is really the idle mixture screw. If it has dirt in it, unscrew it while counting the number of turns so you can put back in the same adjustment. Use a can of WD-40 with the red straw or carb cleaner with the straw and poke it in the hole and let fly. Don't get that shit in your eye. It should blast out any crap in there.

[Cuts metal like mad]

This is the Idle cutoff solenoid... I am more familiar with webers (i toss the old hitachis :D ) but the idle jet on a weber is inside of here.

 

 

 

As per Hainz's video its not supposed to receive a direct 12v, its supposed to get power from the plus side of the coil... I tested this myself and its exactly right, mine would act up kinda like yours is when I connected it to ignition power... strange.

[Nicholas7620]

rebuild and troubleshooting while the carburetor is still under warranty.

 

I started up my B210 this AM and drove 45 highway miles and tested the idle. My B210 wouldn't idle at all. I hoped to have any dirt fall out of the float but no luck.

 

I have smog equipment on my B210, so if there is anything wrong in the smog system the carburetor won't idle. I took Pictures of my carburetor from all sides so I can reassemble all the hoses in the right place.

 

Here are pictures before removal of carburetor.

 

This is picture from the right side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This the Picture of the front.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This the picture from the left.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the picture from the backside.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is the engine after removal of the carburetor. I stated cleaning the manifold. The exhaust manifold is very dirty after 228K miles and 32 years. One of the emissions lines was almost completely plugged with carbon. I spent the rest of the evening cleaning manifold emission parts from the inside.

 

I'll clean the outside tomorrow.

 

[Nicholas7620]

I sent my carburetor to Recarbco and they found a bad "O" ring in my carburetor and replaced it for free.

 

Thank goodness.

 

I put the carburetor back on and the bad idle was gone then came back and then went away.

 

After the engine warms up the bad idle is more likely to show up. Sometimes I have good idle, bad idle and no idle at all.

 

I'm thinking it is a problem with one of my air control valves in my smog emission system.

 

I have two air control valves one in front of the carburetor and one in back.

 

I have tried to clean the air control valves with carburetor cleaner. I'll get an idle where the engine shakes and then a smooth idle and sometimes no idle at all.

 

When I have no idle, I have to keep rev's up by shifting 4speed into neutral then braking with my left foot and lightly pressing gas pedal with my right foot.

 

Whenever I come to a red light or a stop sign I have to worry about the idle I will get good idle, bad idle or no idle and the engine dies. :eek::eek:

 

I'm at a stalemate. I don't know how to tell if my air control valves are bad.

 

Does any Datto here know how to test their air control valves?

 

I'm going to run errands and take some PICs?

[datsunfish]

Vacuum leak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would put money on it. My 510 ran fine til it warmed up then wouldnt idle or run unless I revved it up. 99 percent of the time in my experiences and that is a lot. With choke open there is too much air. Stock carbs are difficult to get to the base bolts. Heat and bend a cheapo box end wrench for just that.

[Nicholas7620]

Hey everyone,

 

While my carb was getting tested and having it's "O" ring replaced, I removed and cleaned up all my smog equipment on my wire wheel. I wire scrubbed off all the old paint and old rust. I cleaned out my EGR manifold port which was nearly plugged, completely shut, with hardened black carbon. :rolleyes: I removed a marble-sized chunk of black carbon.

 

In Picture 1 is the AIR CONTROL VALVE (ACV)(per shop manual). I don't know how to tell if this valve is working properly. :confused: The shop manual claims the ACV controls the quantity of secondary air fed from the air pump according to the engine speed and load condition, and prevents excessive temperature rise of the catalytic converter. :eek:

 

That's not all. :mellow: The intake manifold vacuum and air pump discharge pressure applied to the diaphragm chamber actuate the valve coupled to the diaphragm and control the quantity of secondary air to be fed into the exhaust manifold in response to the engine condition.

 

How do I test this thing? :cool: :confused: Would the ACV affect my engine's ability to idle? :(

 

 

This afternoon while driving (20 min) my idle was good for 18 minutes and bad for 2 min, when the idle is bad I have to shift into neutral, brake with my left foot and rev the engine with my right foot to prevent the engine from stalling. I'm thinking Datsunfish and his dreaded vacuum leak hypothesis :cool: is affecting my engine's ability to idle.

 

 

 

Picture 2 is my Anti-backfire valve. The shop manual claims, this valve is controlled by intake manifold vacuum to prevent backfire in the exhaust system at the initial period of deceleration. :) :) :) If the valve does not work properly, unburned fuel mixture will be emitted from the combustion chambers and burns with the aid of high temperature and injected air which causes backfire. :eek: :eek: :eek:

 

Picture 3 is a hose I haven't been able to find out where it belongs. There is a piece of white tape wrapped around it. I found it while my carburetor was at Recarbco. I'm trying to find a home for it. :D :D Does anyone know where it goes? I need to find someone else with a Cali, 76 B210, my shop manual has not been helpful.

 

 

 

Picture 4 - I'm trying to show where the hose originates from.

 

 

 

 

Picture 5 - I'm still trying to show where the hose lives. :) :)

 

 

 

 

Picture 6 - I'm trying to show another view of my orphan hose who doesn't have a home yet. I might have a hose/hoses incorrectly connected. :eek:

:eek: :eek:.

 

 

 

I'm still trying to smooth out my engine's ability to idle softly like a sewing machine. There was a time when the idle was so smooth and quiet it was difficult to tell if the engine was running. I had a great muffler too, ah ha ha ha :D. The engine does idle good sometimes, I believe I have to trace down all my hoses/ replace all the old ones/and find out and confirm that each hose is where they each belong. :eek: :)

 

I'm thinking along the same lines as Datsunfish, I have to find and eliminate all of my vacuum leaks. Anyone know of another Cali, 76 Datsun B210? It would be great to compare emission hoses.

[Nicholas7620]

I still haven't found a home for the hose with the white tape. I didn't have time.

 

Can anyone tell me why a carburetor needs electricty. :confused: :confused: The A14 Hitachi has an electical connection on the choke and an electrical connection on the idle cutoff solenoid. :eek:

 

I don't think my idle is perfect yet. I have to replace all the hoses to make sure I eliminate all the vacuum leakage. :rolleyes:

 

I have to make sure the electrical line are providing "coil side" electricity by not being connected to the ignition. I think my carb is currently wired to the ignition. :rolleyes:

 

I still have to figure out what my unconnected hose does and where it belongs. :rolleyes:

 

I don't think I'll have time to do anything about it tomorrow either. :mellow:

 

That's what I like about my B210 it runs and runs.

[ggzilla]

Did you check out the idle cut-off solenoid? It has the red wire in your photos. If that connection is loose, or the solenoid is faulty, it won't idle, but will run good above idle. It is common with Datsuns for these spade connectors to get loose or slight corroded, then you get intermittent problems (sometimes works, sometimes doesn't).

 

The carb needs electricity for:

1. To make it easier to drive: no messing with a manual choke

2. To keep the engine from dieseling (my '72 won't stop running when I turn the key off. In '73 they added the cutoff)

3. To meet emission standards. Turns out auto choke does a better job than a manual, and also a better job than manifold heat or coolant temp heat for a choke.

Edited December 9, 2008 by ggzilla

[Nicholas7620]

The engine has been idling good the last couple days. I'll clean the connection between the idle cutoff solenoid.

 

I know the carburetor has been thoroughly cleaned, rebuilt and tested before I reinstalled it. I personally delivered the carburetor to Recarbco and met the owner and I've taken another carburetor from an '84 Toyota to Recarbco and had it rebuilt.

 

I have some kind of a transient problem as you suggested.

 

GGZILLA TYPED = It is common with Datsuns for these spade connectors to get loose or slight corroded, then you get intermittent problems (sometimes works, sometimes doesn't).

 

I'll clean the connector with a wire and check for corrosion. I'll be back.

 

 

I'm pleased for now, but cautious and leary the idling problem will come back.

 

I keep trying to make my 76 A-14 B210 engine run better, greener and make the Cali Smog emission system run cleaner and better.

 

I'm a happy datto owner. I have a long trip planned for tomorrow. I'll take the B210 for a long drive.

 

 

Best

[Nicholas7620]

Whew, I get zero idle now. :(:( The weather became colder and the B210 will only idle when the choke is on :rolleyes: first thing in the morning.

 

The rest of the time my B210 wants to die at once when the rev's go towards idle, I have to shift into neutral and brake with my clutch foot while I keep rev's up with my other foot. Otherwise my B210 is running great at higher engine speeds but not idle.

 

I had a few other friends smarter than me look at my Datsun and give me their opinions.

 

It seems like the opinions I respect agree with GGZilla that my problem is electrical. I've cleaned my electrical connectors with carb cleaner and a Q-tip.

 

I'm going to check carb for tightness and switch wiring to carb and see if I get any improvement. I'll have PIC's coming, tomorrow I can play with my B210.

[banzai510(hainz)]

take the idle jet out and ck it gain to make sure its clear.

 

I had this proplem on my 521. the fuel filter was full of crap and keep pluggin the idle jet.

 

 

make sure no vacuum leak, carb tight?

[datzenmike]

http://forum.ratsun.net/showthread.php?t=3262

[ggzilla]

> the B210 will only idle when the choke is on first thing in the morning.

 

Yes, this is normal. With original factory tune, this is even true of summer days. It needs the choke to run first thing.

 

Easy way to check the idle cut-off solenoid: Which engine off, key on -- pull the solenoid wire off. Listen for a faint 'click'. Touch the wires together, listen for the 'click'.

* If you don't hear it clicking, then it is not working.

* If it is clicking it is probably all right. Remove the idle screw and blow WD-40 up the hole.

 

Also clean the main jets. You can do this with carb on engine, remove the two plug screws on bottom of carb (below the site glass). The gas will run out, so do this with cold engine. Then unscrew the jets. Clean and put back together.

Edited December 19, 2008 by ggzilla