PL510 Timing problems

[kelowg]

Pic of dizzy?

[datzenmike]

I'm turning by hand. Valve cover off. Two turns of the crank and I'm back at tdc v notch good crank on tdc mark. Cam is turning. Just went out to the car and did notice the spindal does move in and out when I grab it with needle nose? Raining to hard to get into it.

 

TWO turns....Cam is turning but where is it? Cam lobes back to up position???

 

 

Spindle can move very slightly up and down, but not much

[Zephyr]

Cam on #1 lobes rabbit eared 10 and 2 hard to tell exactly but spindal moves up and down 1/8" to 3/16"

[datzenmike]

OK cam is turning one for two crank turns. And the distributor rotor has only turned about 1/3 way round...

[racerx]

Have u mark ur tdc, much easier to see. Just maybe there are 2 tdc marks that previous owner marked. You should only see one tdc mark on pulley at one turn or 360 degrees.

[Zephyr]

That is correct Datzenmike. Racerx I did mark crank pully with steel marker. Thanks

[racerx]

Zephyr, u said that u were not sure if first two cam lobes are at 10 and 2 oclock when at tdc, it should be then ur dist. Rotor should b at or very closed to # 1 spark plug/piston.

[Zephyr]

Hmmm I don't remember writing that my cam cover was off every time I was trying to diagnose it did not mean to say that if I did 2 turns of crank and #1 is at tdc cam lobes 10 and 2 on #1 cylinder. As far as I've figured everything with cam and crank are good my only problem is 1/3 of a turn of the distributor for 2 turns of the crank

[racerx]

Valve cover has to be off to see first 2 cam lobes at 10 and 2 oclock while at at tdc

[datzenmike]

Well there are only four 12mm bolts holding the oil pump on. Set TDC and drop the pump... the spindle will drop right out. Two things here. You can take a good look at the spindle and by looking up into the timing cover you can see the worm gear.

 

This may tell you something without removing the timing cover for nothing.

[banzai510(hainz)]

cam lining up back to TDC is showing the chain is correct.

 

what mike wrote is what I was going to say next. if you see the spindal not turning during a rotation of the crank then catches to would be obivious. a blank spot or gap... Or try holding putting dist rotor back in and hold the rotor while turning ther crank and maybe you feel it slip.

[Zephyr]

Pulled the oil pump spindal gear has a few teeth that are a little beat up. Oil pump gear on crankshaft is pretty bad it has grooves on the ends of the teeth like it has made its own slot through the middle of the teeth on the gear the gear is really worn down or it has to be the wrong gear it is definitely in bad shape sharp as a razor tried to see if it was loose at all and got cut like a pig that gear has to be the problem. When I drained the oil it definitely had some water in it f*** looked grey not dirty should have inspected it better when I poured the oil out of the oil pump there was small flakes I could see with a flashlight. the pumps body had grooves in it so at this point I can't decide what do I don't wand to spend money on a new pump spindal gear and oil pump crank gear then find out this motor is f*****. I'm pretty pissed off the guy I bought the car from said he went through the motor and he said all was good told me the carbs were the problem I believed him carma is a motherf***** and it can be hardcore. I've tried to find part numbers but all I can find is back to 79 200sx that's what I ordered the woodruff keys for I think they might be wrong looks like they are for a napz? I'm just trying to find the part numbers for this l20b having trouble thanks again for the help I'm going to pull the oil pan before I order any more parts.

[datzenmike]

It's an L20B???

 

L20B spindle..... 15040-21001 about $90 from Nissan

Worm gear........ 15043-21000 about $70 "   "

 

You are in Seattle... the center of L series country. Hell I have about 9 spindles maybe 4 from L and early Z series that will fit. Probably as many worm gears laying around. Post a want ad on ratsun, someone will have the same laying around down there. http://community.ratsun.net/classifieds/category/4-engine/?sort_key=date_added&sort_order=desc

 

Contact this guy.... http://community.ratsun.net/user/37-tdaaj/ .Ted or 'fucking ted' he sells parts and guarantee he will have this stuff. Or can find it.

 

 

 

Oil pump............. Get the external oil pump from a '87 and up D-21 truck with KA24E or later KA24DE engine from a wrecking yard. They are high output and fit exactly. Refuse to pay more than $20 bucks they are $100 new. Don't worry about chips in the oil... the filter will trap them but the pump will get ground up. Ted will have one of these too!

 

 

NOTE : The timing cover has a bushing in it that supports the top of the spindle. If the spindle was sloppy and moving up and down it may be damaged. You may be able to shim with washers so the spindle stays in place.or have to replace it. You'll know when you get it apart. Ted will have one of these too!

[datzenmike]

Never pay good money for something that does not run. Assume scrap and pay scrap prices unless you related to seller or know the history.  Car that does not go for a test ride hides problems with brakes, electrical, suspension, transmission, cooling, rear axle tires could be anything..... Just remember if it does not run, it is only worth the visible parts on it that you see. Pay accordingly. If you don't need parts... pass on it.

[Zephyr]

Yes should have known better Datzenmike I know the car needed work when I bought it it does have a lot of parts I wanted I'm mostly disappointed about water in the oil if you had the car and worked on it you knew there was coolant in the oil. Hopefully it got there from a blown head gasket and there's not a crack in the block. I did just put a head gasket on and looked pretty hard at it it all seemed fine to me but who knows crack in the water jacket won't know till I get it running thanks again for the help. I did manage to get one more hour in on it and got the engine blocked up and crossmember loosened all the way looks like I will have enough room to remove the oil pan now just have to get the steering out of the way to drop the pan down it has a five speed so the bell housing may be a little bigger could not fit a 2x4 between the motor mounts but could fit 1x4. I'll try the wanted on here and Ted thanks

[banzai510(hainz)]

who sold you this? hope it was cheap

a lot of 510 guys are assholes. I would catch this in s sec if I went to see this car.  then lowball him.

[racerx]

You did not check dipstick before u bought it? No white smoke coming out of exhaust when at idle after warm up?

[Zephyr]

I did check the dipstick oil looked fine just a little low. Coolant is heavier than oil and it had not been mixed I guess heavier than oil. I bought the car not running. I did do a compression check looked good. The distributor shaft threw me off. Every Time I would try to start it and it wouldn't and after turning the crank to tdc by hand it would be at 11:28 just luck (Or in this case bad luck) as it took 6 turns to do so. It had spark so I figured all was ok thought it was the carbs. Bad luck bad deal. I could tell you who I bought it from but I'm not into starting some bitch battle I'm not like that. karma will bite him one way or another. karma will get you when you least expect it and you wonder how and why. Thank you for all the help I've got the steering linkage all loose so as soon as I can find the parts I need I can drop the pan hopefully put a new one on as well as new crank oil gear, spindle and oil pump. Does any one know how tall the distributor housing or tube whatever you call it that's bolted to the motor is I feel like I've read there are different heights of them which would mybe keep the distributor from going all the way down to the tang it seems as though my distributor bottoms out about 1/8" shy from being all the way seated.

[banzai510(hainz)]

drop the steering??????????

 

distributor seated correctly. ????????????

[racerx]

lesson learned....

[Doctor510]

I did check the dipstick oil looked fine just a little low. Coolant is heavier than oil and it had not been mixed I guess heavier than oil. I bought the car not running. I did do a compression check looked good. The distributor shaft threw me off. Every Time I would try to start it and it wouldn't and after turning the crank to tdc by hand it would be at 11:28 just luck (Or in this case bad luck) as it took 6 turns to do so. It had spark so I figured all was ok thought it was the carbs. Bad luck bad deal. I could tell you who I bought it from but I'm not into starting some bitch battle I'm not like that. karma will bite him one way or another. karma will get you when you least expect it and you wonder how and why. Thank you for all the help I've got the steering linkage all loose so as soon as I can find the parts I need I can drop the pan hopefully put a new one on as well as new crank oil gear, spindle and oil pump. Does any one know how tall the distributor housing or tube whatever you call it that's bolted to the motor is I feel like I've read there are different heights of them which would mybe keep the distributor from going all the way down to the tang it seems as though my distributor bottoms out about 1/8" shy from being all the way seated.

WHY are you dropping the pan.  Unless there is a question of the existence of the oil pick up, just pull the front cover and read the FSM!  You have gotten reams of really good info so far, put it use.  Distributor housings are distributor specific, as far as I know, they are all the same height with different configurations for mounting the timing plate.

[banzai510(hainz)]

got a photo of this car???

people have tons of oil spindals .

why you need a oil pan?

can buy a new oil pump cheap

[racerx]

If the seller said that the car runs good and no issues then it turned out to be a POS, then shame on him but if u knew that the car did not run or ran good then its on you. You stated that u did a compression check and was good. What was the reading?

[datzenmike]

You don't need to drop or remove the oil pan, just loosen the front bolts and half way down both sides. The pan only has to droop 1/8" or so to slide the timing cover forward and off. Hopefully the gasket stays and doesn't tear. Use a butter knife and slide between gasket and the timing cover to separate it, should slide out.

 

Take the rad out.

Remove oil pump, distributor, rad and heater hose

Loosen alternator and let swing out of way

[Zephyr]

I dropped the steering because I noticed a slight very slight oil leak at the back corner. The po put gasket seal on the gasket bottom against the pan since I've got it all apart I was going to pull the pan and straighten it out scrape the gasket sealer off and put a new gasket on. The reason I am looking for a oil pan is because this one is beat up pretty bad. I also wanted to remove the pan to take a look at the crank and look in the bottom of the pan. Got a new distributor because the old one had the bolt broken off tried to drill it out got pissed off and didn't get it sometimes drilling a steel bolt out of aluminum can get the best of you it your don't go slow. The distributor shaft of the old one had some play to it anyway. I don't have an engine hoist. Compression was all 150. Yes I know I made a bad decision but fuck all that I'm going to get this car driving. Radiator is out as well as oil pump distributor rad hoses alternator. The center link is in my way everything is loose when I get the parts I need I am going to drop idler arm and the drivers side marked it all to put back in the same position tie rods and everything else is still together. Mybe if you don't have a five speed there is more room not sure. The only way I could see to remove the pan to straighten it out was to do what I've done. If there is an easier way to pull the pan without a hoist let me know. Still looking for crank oil pump gear and spindle if anyone has one for sale. And yes I made a bad decision bad decisions happen in the world everyday unless your perfect. All I am trying to do is get this car on the road.