9" wide wheels, without flares - stanced 510s

[q-tip]

Something to learn about Ratsun, if you ask a question and start a thread, stay as active as possible in it or it will get out of hand.

[datzenmike]

For the look your going for on your car your either going to have to run crazy hellaflush camber or hack up your car but as to seeing you statedf you don't want to do that you most likely will end up going with a less aggresive wheel. Also with the kind of motor setup you plan on running you will want as much tire contacting the ground as possible or youi'll just have a bunch of pointless power spinning all over the place trying to keep it straight.

A word about the 510 IRS geometry. As you know when the body is lowered on an IRS suspension, the tire and rim tilt inward at the top, increasing into negative camber. It's bad enough that the tire is running on the inside edge couple of inches of the rubber tread grinding it away, but something else is happening here. As negative camber increases, so does the toe in. Like a bad front end alignment where not only do the tires wear out but the steering and handling are affected. Now imagine this on the back.

 

 

 

Something to learn about Ratsun, if you ask a question and start a thread, it will get out of hand. (no matter what)

fixed

[q-tip]

^^^you got that right mike!

[INDY510]

this thread is a perfect example of how you guys chase off Ratsun members ... . this place used to be welcoming to new ideas

 

AraybianRyda has been in the 510 game for longer than me... he has one of the cleanest L-series 4 doors I have ever seen, but that was almost 10 years ago. Now it's time for a change. If he wanted a boring looking car, he would have a Honda Civic. What fun is it to only do what other people have done? If you knew what his car/engine bay looked like, you would know he's not going to cut it up just to fit wheels.

 

Zero offset with an 8 inch rim would rub....

 

I have 16x8, +15 offset with 225 x 40, no spacer, and had to mod the inner fender to rid the rub at top of the travel...

You obviously don't have stock rear camber .. so why don't you stay out of this thread???

 

this is a 16x8 +10 ... with stock rear camber: ... it's almost 2" away from being 'flush':

 

[INDY510]

I tried a 16x9 -13 on my old 2dr. This is with stock camber and 225/40 tires ... I probably could have 'made' them fit, with an aggressive pull and/or smaller tires:

 

 

[INDY510]

and this is the 16x9 +15 again, with 225/40 tires: .... you should be right in-between the above and below pics

 

[TENDRIL]

I say just do it ... Cause you might be the first to pull it off .

 

 

It doesn't matter if you have to spend more time thinking about and or listening for problems while driving.

 

Just get it to the show and take pics of the process

[69datsun510]

this thread is a perfect example of how you guys chase off Ratsun members ... . this place used to be welcoming to new ideas

 

AraybianRyda has been in the 510 game for longer than me... he has one of the cleanest L-series 4 doors I have ever seen, but that was almost 10 years ago. Now it's time for a change. If he wanted a boring looking car, he would have a Honda Civic. What fun is it to only do what other people have done? If you knew what his car/engine bay looked like, you would know he's not going to cut it up just to fit wheels.

 

 

You obviously don't have stock rear camber .. so why don't you stay out of this thread???

 

this is a 16x8 +10 ... with stock rear camber: ... it's almost 2" away from being 'flush':

 

Stay out of the thread because I have stock rear chamber?  If he wants max tire contact patch, that is close to what he needs.

[69datsun510]

I tried a 16x9 -13 on my old 2dr. This is with stock camber and 225/40 tires ... I probably could have 'made' them fit, with an aggressive pull and/or smaller tires:

 

 

You stated this set up didn't work or may have if you bend out the body.  His mentioned setup up would have an additional 13 mm towards the fender.  We are back to why run an unsafe smaller tire on a larger rim.

His challenge is to run the largest tire on the largest rim with manufactured sizes, a safe set up.  Many members have taken on this challenge, and why the box fenders, flares, etc, were produced.  If you don't want flares or box fenders, you are limiting your choices. My 16 " set up , I believe, has the least amount of modification, or none at all if you don't mind a rub now and then, but not constant.

 

Stop refering to us who are trying to keep the guy from serouis injury to himself or others, as not having open minds to stretched tires or mad camber, or others by wanting the set up to be safe.

 

Your set up creates exsessive heat, wear, yielding a very unsafe condition for premature tire failure.  However, it is an option too.

[69datsun510]

and this is the 16x9 +15 again, with 225/40 tires: .... you should be right in-between the above and below pics

 

Looks like you have some tire rub or scuffing midway on your sidewall, can't tell for sure, or may have at one time.

[Laecaon]

You are bad at wheel offsets or reading comprehension, Im not sure which. But Indy pretty clearly laid it out, and you muddied it. Those are 3 different sets of wheels, not two.

 

Please reread. It really makes you look not so intelligent with such errors. Or please rearrange your comments to properly suit the picture you quoted...

[69datsun510]

You are bad at wheel offsets or reading comprehension, Im not sure which. But Indy pretty clearly laid it out, and you muddied it. Those are 3 different sets of wheels, not two.

 

Please reread. It really makes you look not so intelligent with such errors. Or please rearrange your comments to properly suit the picture you quoted...

You were correct, I did confuse the two pics regarding the 2" clearance, two differnet set ups on the same car.  I corrected my post to reflect.  I must be an idiot, lack intelligence, as you pointed out, for making a mistake like that.

[datzenmike]

You know, we all remember the past as 'the good old days' and revise and polish it up often more than it deserves. Let me just say that there are still interesting and innovative ideas being tried today on ratsun, and in the past we also had lots of condemnation for bad ones too. I've pointed out the problems with what's being attempted here and I'm done. If you are run off because others don't agree with you, then you should run. Tires will wear, traction lessened and it will handle like shit. Says right in the title. Stance is form above function.

 

BTW

Hey INDY, you keep saying stock rear camber, but all these are lowered cars by the look of it, and the amount of negative camber is a function of how low the vehicle is sitting. Lower car... more negative camber. By the book, stock 510 rear camber is about + 1/2 degree. You can't even see this amount but all yours appear to be lowered.  Was the cross member slotted and control arms raised?

[INDY510]

Hey INDY, you keep saying stock rear camber, but all these are lowered cars by the look of it, and the amount of negative camber is a function of how low the vehicle is sitting. Lower car... more negative camber. By the book, stock 510 rear camber is about + 1/2 degree. You can't even see this amount but all yours appear to be lowered.  Was the cross member slotted and control arms raised?

Maybe I could find a better term .. like: "un-modified rear cross-member"

 

My idea of "stock rear camber" is a stock rear cross-member, without being slotted or modified in any way ... If someone's cross-member isn't stock, then all of my numbers are irrelevant; and I can't advise what will fit, because every modified crossmember will have different camber at different ride heights. The inconsistency makes it impossible to predict what offset will fit.

 

 

You stated this set up didn't work or may have if you bend out the body.  His mentioned setup up would have an additional 13 mm towards the fender.

You are wrong ... that wheel has a NEGATIVE offset ... so he will have 13mm more clearance on the fender lip side

 

the rusty 2dr has 16x9 -13 ... the red 4dr has 16x9 +15 ... so the OP's car will be right in-between those two. If he decides to stay on Ratsun we might be able to see what it looks like. I'm curious to see it, regardless of my opinion, so I choose to be on his side of this unnecessary argument.

[69datsun510]

I tried a 16x9 -13 on my old 2dr. This is with stock camber and 225/40 tires ... I probably could have 'made' them fit, with an aggressive pull and/or smaller tires:

 

 

Stock fender shape?  Looks more then rolling the lip, it looks hammered flush.  Looks like you did some work to the fender inner lip and outer lip.  Is the car at stock height in the picture?  It looks lowered some, and would cause some cambering and toe, even though you didn't touch the adjustment from "Stock".

 

My questions above are really the same as datzenmike, Indy510

 

 

[69datsun510]

Maybe I could find a better term .. like "un-modified rear cross-member"

 

My idea of "stock rear camber" is a stock rear cross-member, without being slotted or modified in any way ... If someone's cross-member isn't stock, then all my numbers are irrelevant; and I can't advise what will fit, because every modified crossmember will have different camber at different ride heights. The inconsistency makes it impossible to predict what offset will fit.

 

 

 

You are wrong ... that wheel has a NEGATIVE offset ... so he will have 13mm more clearance on the fender lip side

 

the red car has 16x9 +15 ... the rusty 2dr has 16x9 -13 ... so the OP's car will be right in-between those two, if he decides to stay on Ratsun, maybe we will see what it looks like. I'm curious to see it, so I choose to be on his side of this unnecessary argument.

You are correct on the offset.  I'm with you on seeing his set up at this point.

 

My white car, acually light blue, and the light green car, both had a stock rear xross member.  My silver car pictures and fittment issues addressed, were before I installed the Aussie adjustable rear xross member.  Therefore, would be good examples for this thread.

 

I would consider all of my set ups safe, good size tire patch for traction, and good wear.  I do understand your options and lack of regards for safety, I too was young once. 

 

All of my cars are daily drivers, are not run around town hot rods.  I can jump in my car and drive from Cali to Florida, and feel as confident as a new car on reaching my destination hassle free.  My son drove the below car 3 years to high school, and my wife drove it 2 years everyday to work, 70 miles a day.  Guy who bought the car, hopped in and drove it 300 miles, middle of summer, with weekend traffic, over the grapevine, to Norcal.  I got around 50,000 on a set of the Falken's

 

I'm looking forward to seeing what set up he ends up with and what it looks like.  He has stated he may have to run rims not so wide.

[datzenmike]

 

My idea of "stock rear camber" is a stock rear cross-member, without being slotted or modified in any way ... If someone's cross-member isn't stock, then all of my numbers are irrelevant; and I can't advise what will fit, because every modified crossmember will have different camber at different ride heights. The inconsistency makes it impossible to predict what offset will fit.

 

 

 

 

Hang on a minute.

 

Your 510 has obviously been lowered. Any raising or lowering of the body from the stock ride height will rotate the wheel in an arc. Lowering will swing the wheel inwards at the top (negative camber) Raising the body = positive camber nut not the issue here. Is this not so?

 

To offset the negative 'mad camber yo' the crossmember mounts for the control arms are slotted and the arms raised to eliminate it. Very much like a bump steer spacer on the front.

[69datsun510]

An adjustable rear xross member would allow more adjustment for negative camber and correct the toe from lowering, allowing the tire to be tucked in more then a stock xross member.  So, would help get Hella flush set up even more.  Something he may want to add to give him more adjustment to get them to fit.

 

Proof is in the pudding.  We will have to wait until he gets around to putting them on.

[INDY510]

I would never modify a cross-member to get more negative camber. I'm saying my cross-member is totally stock, and it's NOT slotted or modified in any way. This gives me the 'mad camber' when I lower the rear coilovers, but I can raise the car up if I want it to be safer to drive.

 

For an example, comparing 'stock' vs. 'modified' cross-members:

 

this is a 15x7 +0 on Byron's flared 510, with almost no negative camber due to his heavily modified rear cross-member .. he NEEDS flares to fit these wheels:

 

 

 

Then here's the same exact size (15x7 +0) with an 'un-modified rear cross-member' .. similar ride height, but WAY more camber and no need for flares:

 

[69datsun510]

I would never modify a cross-member to get more negative camber. I'm saying my cross-member is totally stock, and it's NOT slotted or modified in any way. This gives me the 'mad camber' when I lower the rear coilovers, but I can raise the car up if I want it to be safer to drive.

 

For an example, comparing 'stock' vs. 'modified' cross-members:

 

this is a 15x7 +0 on Byron's flared 510, with almost no negative camber due to his heavily modified rear cross-member .. he NEEDS flares to fit these wheels:

 

 

 

 

Then here's the same exact size (15x7 +0) with an 'un-modified rear cross-member' .. similar ride height, but WAY more camber and no need for flares:

 

Bryon used the adjustable rear xross member to dial out the camber and toe from lowing the car.  You can also add to the camber as well.  I can get more camber in my wheels then a stock xross, I have adjustment both directions for camber, just dial in more vs dialing it out.  Bryon wanted his tires to wear better and car to handle better, adjusting the correct amount of camber and toe, resulting in have to flare the car to run those rims and tires.

 

By the way, your rear rims above are my second most favorite rim on my list.  Hard to find them in a 15x8", usually 15x7 or smaller.  My Watanabe RS-8's, three piece style are my favorite, but also hard to find in 15x8, and why I ended up with 16's.  I prefer 15's on 510's, but that's me being old school.

[datzenmike]

I would never modify a cross-member to get more negative camber. I'm saying my cross-member is totally stock, and it's NOT slotted or modified in any way. This gives me the 'mad camber' when I lower the rear coilovers, but I can raise the car up if I want it to be safer to drive.

 

Then here's the same exact size (15x7 +0) with an 'un-modified rear cross-member' .. similar ride height, but WAY more camber and no need for flares:

 

Didn't say to get more negative, only to remove negative from lowering.

 

 

So I have to ask.... on the car above, 15x7" +0 can you raise your car to stock ride height, and with the camber removed, does it clear the fender? you said of the stock camber...

 

 

 

 

this is a 15x7 +0 on Byron's flared 510, with almost no negative camber due to his heavily modified rear cross-member .. he NEEDS flares to fit these wheels:

 

So I ask... how is the OP going to fit 9" rims +0 offset??? Wouldn't a 9" rim be 1" wider to the outside? 

 

 

 

 

im in the process of doing a 16x8 front and 16x9 rear, 0 offset setup on my 1970 510 sedan. I have all my fenders rolled and rears are lightly pulled. ive been having trouble finding photos and information on a setup like this even finding a set of wheels with these specs is very hard. either its impossible or no one has done it as of yet.

 

anyone have a setup like this or similar? stanced out datsuns shouldn't be a dime a dozen lol. lets see what setups yall running for that phat look.

[INDY510]

Yes it will go a few inches higher (not quite stock height) .. . and yes the wheels still fit at any height

[datzenmike]

In your opinion is a 9" +0 offset going to fit? That's 1" wider than yours?

[arabian_ryda]

this is what we are discussing and trying to figure out. it might it might not. but by the looks of it, it might just clear. if I have clearance issues with the outer fender then I will go with a diff size but retain the 0 offset. im trying to get the rim as close to the outer fender as possible without contact. I have a roll plus the door jam bump smoothed out.

 

I would have never attempted this setup without seeing the photos and sizes of indys 510 on random google searches over the last few years. but his attempts got me curious as to what could be done with the wheel size I have chosen.

 

I wont be as low as indys car, just lightly tucking tire with a heavy spring rate to minimize suspension flex/clearance. if they do clear I will also modify my bump stops and make them taller. call it what you will , I know this community is very diverse and what im doing isn't exactly a common choice for some 510 fans but ive never been much to follow the rules or what others have attempted. Ive never daily driven my 510 its a weekend driver. my car has always been a street machine, no intention to autox or drift or anything crazy. i baby my ride like its a new born child. any lowered 510 is going to have camber issues in regards to tire wear weather its a 13x6 or 17x9.

 

69datsun510 I highly doubt you got anywhere close to 50,000km or miles on a set of tires on a lowered 510 with stock rear cross member.

 

a slotted crossmember I think would ruin the 510s geometry. the wishbone rear suspension is legendary in these cars. did team BRE have a modified rear cross members when they where running there racecars back in the day? I highly doubt it but not 100 sure.

[Josh K.]

Just bolt the damn things on and end this pissing match ;)