datsunfreak Posted May 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 German reconscructed B17 designed to reconnect with the survivors formation and gun them sofrn from within the return flight formation! Read this three times. Still don't know what it means... ^_^ Quote Link to comment
MikeRL411 Posted May 15, 2017 Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 Read this three times. Still don't know what it means... ^_^ Not that hard! The Luftwaffe salvaged crashed B17s, pieced together flyable reconstructed units. crewed them with German flight crews, flew up to returning B17 formations and proceeded to shoot into the flight group they had joined! B17s flew a complicated mutual defense formation that concentrated firepower on the external threat. This made them vulnerable to a mole inside the formation. One of the downsides to the "indestructability" of the B17, it often survived crashes inside enemy lines. At least this one had "correct" national markings, the "snipers" had forged USAAF markings in violation of international law. Quote Link to comment
Jesse C. Posted May 15, 2017 Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 Read this three times. Still don't know what it means... ^_^ I think he meant this.... Since so many B-17s were lost over Europe, it comes as no surprise that not a few Fortresses fell into Axis hands, either by being forced to land on German airfields or by the Germans piecing together flyable examples from the bits and pieces of crashed aircraft. By various means, the Germans were able to put about forty Fortresses back into the air, which is a rather sizable force, so much so that the Luftwaffe can be counted as a major B-17 user! Most captured B-17s were given high-visibility German national markings and were used for the training of fighter pilots in the development of tactics that would be effective against USAAF-operated Fortresses. However, some were flown in their original USAAF markings for various clandestine purposes such as sneak penetrations of Allied territory, the dropping of agents, or the supplying of secret bases. The most well-known Luftwaffe unit to operate the captured B-17 in such a fashion was the notorious I/K.G.200. The exploits of I/K.G.200 are sort of shadowy and not much is written about this outfit in most histories of World War 2. One of their better-known exploits took place in the spring of 1944 in the Western desert (long after Rommel had been run out of Africa) and involved the use of captured B-17s and other Allied aircraft for the construction and maintenance of a series of secret airstrips and fuel dumps. A captured Fortress was used to parachute agents into Jordan in October of 1944. In Luftwaffe service, the B-17 was assigned the cover designation of "Dornier Do 200". There are reports that at least one captured B-17 was used by the Luftwaffe as a decoy. It would follow returning USAAF B-17 formations, pretending to be a crippled straggler and hoping to draw a B-17 out of the formation to cover it against fighter attack during the flight home. Once the protective B-17 closed in, the decoy would fire at it with its own guns or would call in German fighters to finish it off. This practice was enough of a threat that USAAF bomber formations would often fire upon an approaching straggler that could not be positively identified. In the Pacific theatre, most USAAC B-17s were destroyed on the ground during the first few days of the war. However, the Japanese advance in the Pacific was so rapid that Allied forces were often forced to leave some of their aircraft behind as they retreated. As a result, the Japanese forces managed to obtain a collection of different types of Allied aircraft that they were able to put back into the air with fairly little effort. The Japanese obtained at least three Fortresses--two B-17Ds and one early B-17E--which were flown to Japan for use in a public display of captured enemy aircraft. These captured B-17s were used for careful evaluation of their capabilities and the development of fighter tactics that would be useful against them. Listing of B-17s in Luftwaffe hands (incomplete): 41-24585 42-30048 42-30146 42-30336 42-38017 42-30713 Quote Link to comment
Profile Posted May 15, 2017 Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 Our own air force did the same thing too. The captured planes were put on display to sell war bonds all over the country. I got to sit in a 109 at a state fair in 1942. The markings were left as flown. Long time ago in a land far away. Quote Link to comment
datsunfreak Posted May 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 Not that hard! The Luftwaffe salvaged crashed B17s, pieced together flyable reconstructed units. crewed them with German flight crews, flew up to returning B17 formations and proceeded to shoot into the flight group they had joined! B17s flew a complicated mutual defense formation that concentrated firepower on the external threat. This made them vulnerable to a mole inside the formation. One of the downsides to the "indestructability" of the B17, it often survived crashes inside enemy lines. At least this one had "correct" national markings, the "snipers" had forged USAAF markings in violation of international law. Well that makes sense. ^_^ Quote Link to comment
MikeRL411 Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 I think he meant this.... Since so many B-17s were lost over Europe, it comes as no surprise that not a few Fortresses fell into Axis hands, either by being forced to land on German airfields or by the Germans piecing together flyable examples from the bits and pieces of crashed aircraft. By various means, the Germans were able to put about forty Fortresses back into the air, which is a rather sizable force, so much so that the Luftwaffe can be counted as a major B-17 user! Most captured B-17s were given high-visibility German national markings and were used for the training of fighter pilots in the development of tactics that would be effective against USAAF-operated Fortresses. However, some were flown in their original USAAF markings for various clandestine purposes such as sneak penetrations of Allied territory, the dropping of agents, or the supplying of secret bases. The most well-known Luftwaffe unit to operate the captured B-17 in such a fashion was the notorious I/K.G.200. The exploits of I/K.G.200 are sort of shadowy and not much is written about this outfit in most histories of World War 2. One of their better-known exploits took place in the spring of 1944 in the Western desert (long after Rommel had been run out of Africa) and involved the use of captured B-17s and other Allied aircraft for the construction and maintenance of a series of secret airstrips and fuel dumps. A captured Fortress was used to parachute agents into Jordan in October of 1944. In Luftwaffe service, the B-17 was assigned the cover designation of "Dornier Do 200". There are reports that at least one captured B-17 was used by the Luftwaffe as a decoy. It would follow returning USAAF B-17 formations, pretending to be a crippled straggler and hoping to draw a B-17 out of the formation to cover it against fighter attack during the flight home. Once the protective B-17 closed in, the decoy would fire at it with its own guns or would call in German fighters to finish it off. This practice was enough of a threat that USAAF bomber formations would often fire upon an approaching straggler that could not be positively identified. In the Pacific theatre, most USAAC B-17s were destroyed on the ground during the first few days of the war. However, the Japanese advance in the Pacific was so rapid that Allied forces were often forced to leave some of their aircraft behind as they retreated. As a result, the Japanese forces managed to obtain a collection of different types of Allied aircraft that they were able to put back into the air with fairly little effort. The Japanese obtained at least three Fortresses--two B-17Ds and one early B-17E--which were flown to Japan for use in a public display of captured enemy aircraft. These captured B-17s were used for careful evaluation of their capabilities and the development of fighter tactics that would be useful against them. Listing of B-17s in Luftwaffe hands (incomplete): 41-24585 42-30048 42-30146 42-30336 42-38017 42-30713 But in a way we got even. Few realize that B17s were in active service in the Far East initially in the Phillipines until December 1941. It was a B17 that spotted the battle ship Musashi [wreckage recently discovered] sister ship of the Yamato on its way to final fit out. The B17 proceeded to bomb the shit out of the Musashi and called in the final assault. The Musashi was glowing red when she sank. There was in fact a third super battleship under construction that was converted mid build into an aircraft carrier. It was also sunk, but this time while it was being ferried from its construction dry dock to the fit out site for further mods to an aircraft carrier configuration. Quote Link to comment
MikeRL411 Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 IKA "Cherry Blossom" AKA called Baka Bomb by us, the reluctant recipients. But a dual cockpit one? How do you train a suicide bomber and survive? Possible answer is the skids, service ones didn't need a landing gear! They were one way units. Quote Link to comment
Jesse C. Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 IKA "Cherry Blossom" AKA called Baka Bomb by us, the reluctant recipients. But a dual cockpit one? How do you train a suicide bomber and survive? Possible answer is the skids, service ones didn't need a landing gear! They were one way units. Yes, sadly they trained some poor volunteers the very basics on how to fly these things into ships and other targets. Just enough to get them into trouble. And the Germans where just nuts enough to want to try it themselves, but never put them into service before the war ended. Quote Link to comment
MikeRL411 Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 Yes, sadly they trained some poor volunteers the very basics on how to fly these things into ships and other targets. Just enough to get them into trouble. And the Germans where just nuts enough to want to try it themselves, but never put them into service before the war ended. This looks like the units cobbled together as part of the search for why early V1s were falling off course and crashing shortly after launch. Hanna Reich flew one and discovered that one of the gyros was dumping [yes she bailed out] and a fix was applied. Planes of Fame museum had one on display when it was still at Ontario International Airport CA. The V1 in the Air Force Museum is a standard configuration but is a later US Navy sub launched unit, not a real V1. Quote Link to comment
Jesse C. Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 This looks like the units cobbled together as part of the search for why early V1s were falling off course and crashing shortly after launch. Hanna Reich flew one and discovered that one of the gyros was dumping [yes she bailed out] and a fix was applied. Planes of Fame museum had one on display when it was still at Ontario International Airport CA. The V1 in the Air Force Museum is a standard configuration but is a later US Navy sub launched unit, not a real V1. No, they where real suicide weapons. But the war ended before they where put to use. And the ones used by the U.S. that where copies of the V-1 where called the Republic/Ford JB-2 Loon 2 Quote Link to comment
Jesse C. Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 They just found one off the Finnish Coast. They think it might be a Russian Lend Lease bird. http://yle.fi/uutiset/3-9604845 1 Quote Link to comment
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