720 4x4 suspension swap?

[datzenmike]

The above. There are 26" shorty 71B 5 speeds. I suppose that would give you an additional 5.5" of space.

[Lockleaf]

Once again, thanks for the extra info. I love this thread. It has filled up with tons of great random 4wd info.

[Thisolddatsun]

OK, the early 720 4X4s had longshaft 4 or 5 speeds in them with a very short driveline between the transmission and transfer case, around 1983/84 they started to use the short shaft 5 speed with a little longer driveline between the transmission and transfer case.

The above. There are 26" shorty 71B 5 speeds. I suppose that would give you an additional 5.5" of space.

Every inch counts right? Haha :D

If anything that 5.5" of space might make doing a clutch easier.

Once again, thanks for the extra info. I love this thread. It has filled up with tons of great random 4wd info.

Right?d thats how I feel about this thread theres some good info here. Very random but its a gold mine for anyone that takes the time to read it. Didnt think itd be as popular as it is.

 

Also forgot to mention that I have some patching to do om the floor pans and was thinking of redoing the floor pans and make the room needed/holes for shifters ect.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The only way you'll be able to use either of the stock 71B transmissions (short or long), and run a different transfer case, is if you use a divorced case. The NP205 is another option, but they are big and heavy and the divorced ones are becoming hard to find. As far as the divorced adapter for the Toyota t-case, it is not availabel anymore. So I'm trying to understand why you're debating which 71B trans you are going to use. Are you going to make a divorced adapter for the Toyota case?

 

I did talk to my friend of Inchworm fame, and we discussed what parts would be used to make one (a flange from an early 22RE automatic trans t-case, a rear axle wheel bearing and retainer, etc) but you'd still have to find someone able to machine the plate and figure out how to hold it all together.

 

The only real option I see is the use of the '83 ZX Turbo T5 bellhousing and either a SM420, SM465, or a Jeep T5 with a Dana 300 t-case behind it. And of those three transimssion options, the Jeep T5 is the only one that isn't going to require an adapter to bolt it to the t-case. This setup won't be a slam dunk either. You'll still have to do some work to figure out if the trans input shaft will be adaptable to the Nissan flywheel and clutch. Obviously a new clutch plate can be used with the right spline count, but if the input shaft is too short or too long, some work will need to be done there.

 

There is one more option. Here is a link to a manufacturer of SM420/SM465 to Toyota t-case adapter https://www.marlincrawler.com/transfer-case/line-ups/transmission-to-transfer-case-adapters

 

It seems that debating the dimensions of the 71B trans is a waste of breath.

[Lockleaf]

The OP has never once confirmed which direction he wants to go. So continued discussion of the pros and cons of all his options hardly seems a waste of breath. Besides, this thread has morphed in to one of the best discussions of 720 4x4 information we have here, so adding a few extra details to the repository doesn't hurt.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

You're absolutely correct. I worded that last statment wrong. The fact that he has not decided is not what I am referring to, it's the jumbling of information that appears to be confusing the OP. It doesn't sound like he has his head wrapped around what is possible and what is not with the available parts and resources at hand.

 

It has been brought up numerous times the option of running divorced double t-cases behind the 71B trans, and without a divorced adapter available, it doesn't seem likely that this will happen.

[Thisolddatsun]

The only way you'll be able to use either of the stock 71B transmissions (short or long), and run a different transfer case, is if you use a divorced case. The NP205 is another option, but they are big and heavy and the divorced ones are becoming hard to find. As far as the divorced adapter for the Toyota t-case, it is not availabel anymore. So I'm trying to understand why you're debating which 71B trans you are going to use. Are you going to make a divorced adapter for the Toyota case?

 

I did talk to my friend of Inchworm fame, and we discussed what parts would be used to make one (a flange from an early 22RE automatic trans t-case, a rear axle wheel bearing and retainer, etc) but you'd still have to find someone able to machine the plate and figure out how to hold it all together.

 

The only real option I see is the use of the '83 ZX Turbo T5 bellhousing and either a SM420, SM465, or a Jeep T5 with a Dana 300 t-case behind it. And of those three transimssion options, the Jeep T5 is the only one that isn't going to require an adapter to bolt it to the t-case. This setup won't be a slam dunk either. You'll still have to do some work to figure out if the trans input shaft will be adaptable to the Nissan flywheel and clutch. Obviously a new clutch plate can be used with the right spline count, but if the input shaft is too short or too long, some work will need to be done there.

 

There is one more option. Here is a link to a manufacturer of SM420/SM465 to Toyota t-case adapter https://www.marlincrawler.com/transfer-case/line-ups/transmission-to-transfer-case-adapters

 

It seems that debating the dimensions of the 71B trans is a waste of breath.

Wouldnt mind the sm420 transmission but I have this strong will/desire to try and do a double t100 divorced tcase. My trjfk is already divorced and a center drop. I think that would work the best for "originality" goal I want. I do enjoy all of the help and ideas you have given stoff and will have to include you in the build thread once I get around to it.

 

The OP has never once confirmed which direction he wants to go. So continued discussion of the pros and cons of all his options hardly seems a waste of breath. Besides, this thread has morphed in to one of the best discussions of 720 4x4 information we have here, so adding a few extra details to the repository doesn't hurt.

This is by no means a build threat yet. And Im still trying to decide what direction I want to go this is mostly for brainstorming/information purposes so I can do needed research and info on parts as well. Even if the info doesnt help me it could help someone else that reads the thread.

[Thisolddatsun]

You're absolutely correct. I worded that last statment wrong. The fact that he has not decided is not what I am referring to, it's the jumbling of information that appears to be confusing the OP. It doesn't sound like he has his head wrapped around what is possible and what is not with the available parts and resources at hand.

 

It has been brought up numerous times the option of running divorced double t-cases behind the 71B trans, and without a divorced adapter available, it doesn't seem likely that this will happen.

From what i have read the 2 nissan t100s can be out together you have to 69 and clock one of them. I havnt sat down with 2 tcases yet but my plan was to bring them down to the local 4x4 shop and tell them what I'm looking to do and see what we can come up with for the dual cases.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I've searched for that combination and I can't seem to come up with anything. Do you have a pic or a link for reference?

[Thisolddatsun]

I've searched for that combination and I can't seem to come up with anything. Do you have a pic or a link for reference?

I cant find pictures anywhere :( but http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/nissan/322515-datsun-divorced-t-case-strength-2.html

He did it said he loves it. So it has been done just cant seem to find the pics. I might have to PM him and try and get pics from him. All I Googled was datsun t100 dual tcase. Not much some talk about a dana 20 t case which was used in the older aftermarket 4x4 trucks. Not in 80+ trucks. Just means when I do it I'll take lots if pictures thats for sure.

[Lockleaf]

Thoughts on maybe using a d21 z24 transmission with the married tx10 tcase, and putting the stock 720 divorced tcase behind that? It might be easier and still keep you totally Nissan. The trans would bolt right to your engine, then you would just have to maybe move the 720 tcase back a couple inches and notch the cross member that is right behind it. Then you could still choose to clock the rear tcase which ever direction you choose.

 

These pics are from a D21 running that setup. They aren't great, but they help. I also linked the thread down below.

 

 

 

 

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/nissan/1102231-divorced-nissan-t-case-sale.html

[Thisolddatsun]

Thoughts on maybe using a d21 z24 transmission with the married tx10 tcase, and putting the stock 720 divorced tcase behind that? It might be easier and still keep you totally Nissan. The trans would bolt right to your engine, then you would just have to maybe move the 720 tcase back a couple inches and notch the cross member that is right behind it. Then you could still choose to clock the rear tcase which ever direction you choose.

 

These pics are from a D21 running that setup. They aren't great, but they help. I also linked the thread down below.

 

 

 

 

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/nissan/1102231-divorced-nissan-t-case-sale.html

I was thinking about that route. But then when I have to do a clutch Ill have a transmission+tcase to move instead of just a transmission. It would be a great idea and not to mention i saw a gear kit for the tx100. The biggest hurdle with the dual t100s is the mounting due to all the force the 2 put out. Maybe if I can do the mounting right I can drop both tcases together/seperate after the drivelines are removed. Course after everything is said and done thats what I would like.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Mounting properly requires torque control. A long lever holds more torque. You could build a crossmember like the one Front Range Off Road sells for the Toyota t-case. http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/t-case-crossmember/

 

I built this one for a 2007 Tacoma, but I used different bushings than FROR uses.

 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The Nissan t-case with the offset rear output would put a lot of stress on the rear driveline. The offset of the output shaft should match the offset of the pinion on the diff, or else it's hard to control the driveline vibrations. It's probably not a problem in stock form because of the low ride height.

[Thisolddatsun]

Mounting properly requires torque control. A long lever holds more torque. You could build a crossmember like the one Front Range Off Road sells for the Toyota t-case. http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/t-case-crossmember/

 

I built this one for a 2007 Tacoma, but I used different bushings than FROR uses.

 

 

That is a pretty nice crossmember yoh made. What all did you use to make that crossmember? Its pretty sick! I love seeing the stuff you make haha :)

[Thisolddatsun]

The Nissan t-case with the offset rear output would put a lot of stress on the rear driveline. The offset of the output shaft should match the offset of the pinion on the diff, or else it's hard to control the driveline vibrations. It's probably not a problem in stock form because of the low ride height.

Would a bigger/custom driveline be good to use then? I was going to have that done just because of when it gets a solid axle it will need the drivelines made to match up toy to nissan.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I used a ring made by FROR and the 1.75" x .120" tubing with 2" x 3" polyurethane bushings at the ends.

 

A CV driveline would help, but it wouldn't cure it. You would have to cut the perches off the axle and rotate the pinion up to be directly in line with the driveshaft, but you'll ave to do that if you want lift anyway. Does a Nissan CV exist? Or would you have to use a Toyota or Spicer CV?

[Thisolddatsun]

I used a ring made by FROR and the 1.75" x .120" tubing with 2" x 3" polyurethane bushings at the ends.

 

A CV driveline would help, but it wouldn't cure it. You would have to cut the perches off the axle and rotate the pinion up to be directly in line with the driveshaft, but you'll ave to do that if you want lift anyway. Does a Nissan CV exist? Or would you have to use a Toyota or Spicer CV?

I think the pathfinders had a CV but Im not sure Im sure a zcar or some other nissan used one. Mike or someone else probably knows.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The CV's used in cars and trucks differ. Truck CV's are really a "double cardan" joint with two u-joints held together in one housing and located by a center pin. It is called a CV because it accomplishes the same thing as a Rzeppa type joint found in cars.

 

Rzeppa CV joints would not work for this application.

 

Tom Woods or Jesse Haines (High Angle Driveline) can make you any type of shaft you like including a custom CV.

 

http://www.4xshaft.com/Xterra2.asp

 

http://highangledriveline.com/

[Thisolddatsun]

The CV's used in cars and trucks differ. Truck CV's are really a "double cardan" joint with two u-joints held together in one housing and located by a center pin. It is called a CV because it accomplishes the same thing as a Rzeppa type joint found in cars.

 

Rzeppa CV joints would not work for this application.

 

Tom Woods or Jesse Haines (High Angle Driveline) can make you any type of shaft you like including a custom CV.

 

http://www.4xshaft.com/Xterra2.asp

 

http://highangledriveline.com/

The only yoke that I have is the primary drive line to the imput of the tcase. The rest are flange type fittings

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Good, so you could probably re-drill the flange to fit a Toyota CV. They come in 4 basic variations, but the only concern is how much it will flex. 3 of the 4 variations on the Toyota CV flex a whopping 37 degrees allowing for massive suspension droop. And the joints in them are actually stronger than a similarly sized Spicer joint. If you do find one, don't rebuild it unless absolutely necessary as the OEM Toyota joints are the strongest and really hard to find. (The dealer actually sells Spicer joints in Toyota boxes)

[Thisolddatsun]

Good, so you could probably re-drill the flange to fit a Toyota CV. They come in 4 basic variations, but the only concern is how much it will flex. 3 of the 4 variations on the Toyota CV flex a whopping 37 degrees allowing for massive suspension droop. And the joints in them are actually stronger than a similarly sized Spicer joint. If you do find one, don't rebuild it unless absolutely necessary as the OEM Toyota joints are the strongest and really hard to find. (The dealer actually sells Spicer joints in Toyota boxes)

How many would I want? what year toyota truck/suv would I find them in? And how will I know if I get the 1/4 that doesnt flex?

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The early solid axle Hilux (79-85) front driveshaft is one source, while the real early ones had 8 mm bolts, they work just fine. You could drill them out to 10 mm or leave them alone. The Tacoma extended cab trucks (or in some cases, long bed) with the two piece rear driveshaft has them also, but I have not seen them 100% of the time in those trucks. The best way is to find on and measure it with a protractor or a digital angle gauge. They came in other applications too, but I am not sure exactly which trucks had them.

 

The 10mm bolts are really strong so if you find the shafts, get the bolts too. If you have to buy the bolts, they are expensive. From the dealer, a bolt, washer and nut combo will cost $11 each (x8 for each shaft) and that really adds up. Wrecking yards probably throw them in the recycling bin.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Or you could modify them for more flex. I have done this and it works well, but is not an easy job. Just getting the CV apart and back together is difficult. It's like a Chinese finger trap.

 

Here's an article on modifying the CV: http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod/

[Thisolddatsun]

Hmmm alright ill have to keep a eye out for some when I go on a junkyard run.