69 510 2dr Project - VG30E/Autocross

[junk yard z 77]

did the xterra starter solve your clearance issue?  also - I'm in need of that same plug for the fuel lines, any ideas to the year make and mdl for the jeep that you got that from?

[moath]

I didn't know they made them in red too! That's awesome. Thanks.  :thumbup:

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-120-6806-rd

 

Just FYI, that's the older caliper design. Wilwood says the Dynapros are stiffer, so if performance is your primary concern then you may want the newer style. They also use different pads, so you can't quite upgrade in place.

 

Glad this helps!

[moath]

did the xterra starter solve your clearance issue?  also - I'm in need of that same plug for the fuel lines, any ideas to the year make and mdl for the jeep that you got that from?

It's a LOT better. There's still a bit of steering travel lost, but it's only the last little bit before full lock. I may play with adding a washer or two to the idler arm mount to drop it down a little and see if that helps.

[datsunfreak]

Just FYI, that's the older caliper design. Wilwood says the Dynapros are stiffer, so if performance is your primary concern then you may want the newer style. 

 

But the dimensions are the same? 

[moath]

But the dimensions are the same?

 

Yep. They both use the 5.25" mount.

[moath]

In case anyone was wondering about the weight difference:

 

Stock 510 front strut with rotors, 510 factory calipers and pads, SS lines, camber plate top hat, spring and strut: 42lbs

 

280zx strut, 300zx hub, coilover, top hat camber plate, Wilwood Dynapro caliper and bracket (but no line): 43.25lbs

 

Net gain should be just under 2 lbs. The stock 280zx calipers, pads and line weighs 10.2lbs. The Wilwood caliper, bracket and pads weighs 5.25 lbs. That's nearly half!

[moath]

I've been working on inspecting and labeling the wiring harness while I'm still out on paternity leave.  There are some...issues.

 

 

There's also another section with home electrical style wire nuts connecting a pigtail, etc.  I was working on this out on the deck yesterday while my wife had a nap and our first son was at preschool.  Here's Davis (only three weeks old!) after waking up from his nap:

 

Also: baby wipes are actually pretty great for cleaning wiring harnesses like this :)

[moath]

What's new?  I finished labeling the wiring harness and have it basically ready to install in the car.  Got some additional damaged areas fixed up and/or cleaned up too:

 

Before:

 

Here's that same section cleaned up afterwards:

 

 

I also discovered that the upper intake manifold I thought was for a VG30E is probably off of a VG33E instead.  Here are some comparison shots between the two (the VG33E unit still has the "NISSAN" logo on it):

The air intake here is 5mm or 10mm bigger on the VG33E model.

 

Given that I've got the 200SX manifold and all that, I'm going to set it up with the full 200SX upper and lower configuration to start with and then maybe swap this stuff some day down the road.

 

I also set the car on the the front suspension for the first time in at least a few years!  It was way too low at first, so I had to raise it up a fair amount to get it to clear my smaller floor jack.

I'm probably going to need to do some flaring :)

 

The last thing I got around to doing was cutting out the larger opening for the radiator.  I should have done this before I painted the thing, but I didn't think it was so much bigger.  The tape in this first pic shows roughly how much I cut out:

 

In the last picture you can see how the quarter panel that was sectioned (on the left of the picture) is different than the stock one.  The quarter panel damage here definitely made me feel better about cutting into the car like this.

[Draker]

Lookin good!

[Charlie69]

I had to do similar cuts to my 520 for a larger radiator.  I cut mine back to the inner fender wells and went back in with 12 gauge steel.

 

 

 

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Kept seeing updates for this thread and for some reason never got myself to read it. Very cool to see you're working through a lot of this with the performance of the car overall in mind (I especially enjoy your working through the KA vs VG argument from a power-to-weight point of view... VG > KA any day of the week). 

 

The Pathfinder plenum is certainly the best of the stock pieces available, especially for autocross where torque is king. 

 

Here's a link (not sure if you've seen it) of some dyno readouts on several different motor swaps into 510s (all power numbers at the ground thankfully). Has several VGs in there:

 

http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/datsundyno.htm

 

Also, some VG 510 porn for you (since I see you've taken a liking to shaving things down and making it look cleaaaaaaaaan). 

 

 

[moath]

I had to do similar cuts to my 520 for a larger radiator.  I cut mine back to the inner fender wells and went back in with 12 gauge steel.

 

 

 

Wow, that's really thick!  I suppose cutting back that far it needs to be extra strong though.

[moath]

Kept seeing updates for this thread and for some reason never got myself to read it. Very cool to see you're working through a lot of this with the performance of the car overall in mind (I especially enjoy your working through the KA vs VG argument from a power-to-weight point of view... VG > KA any day of the week). 

 

The Pathfinder plenum is certainly the best of the stock pieces available, especially for autocross where torque is king. 

 

Here's a link (not sure if you've seen it) of some dyno readouts on several different motor swaps into 510s (all power numbers at the ground thankfully). Has several VGs in there:

 

http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/datsundyno.htm

 

Also, some VG 510 porn for you (since I see you've taken a liking to shaving things down and making it look cleaaaaaaaaan). 

 

 

Thanks!  I'm glad you've enjoyed reading through it.

 

I went back and forth on KA24DE vs VG30E a fair amount.  I think it may have been easier to class myself competitively with the KA24DE because minimum weights in the SCCA are partially based on engine displacement.  The torque curve of the VG30E and dirt cheap parts is hard to beat though, especially since it doesn't really have much of a weight penalty.  There are even folks starting to use the VG30E for circle track racing:

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/outside-the-box-nissan-v6-race-engine/

 

That's a super clean VG30E install in the pic you posted.  I saw a car with a similar color scheme but with a turbocharged VG30E that made something like 550WHP at Canby a few years ago.  I'm hoping mine will come out that well when it's ready to run.

[Charlie69]

Nice work. Please keep posting.  I need to go back and re read this one!

[moath]

Not much to new report. While replacing some old fuel hose on the intake manifold I managed to lose a screw that holds on the fuel pressure radiator somewhere on our around the engine. I had most of the holes taped up from doing the radiator cutout work, but I still haven't found the goddamn thing.

[The Engine Room]

Sweep the floor. Tape up the rest of the holes and then use a long blow gun to blow around the engine until it hits the floor. If it fell in, blow air into the spark plug hole until it comes back out of where it went in.

[moath]

Wow, it's sure been a while since I updated this.  Life has been pretty busy, so I've only been able to sneak out to the garage for 30 minutes to an hour a week lately.  Hopefully this weekend will be a chance to get out there for a few consecutive hours.

 

I re-arranged the car in the garage to make running the fuel lines easier.  I made my own "dolly" to rotate the thing around using a couple cheap HF dollies I already owned with a couple 2x4s to spread the load out:

 

After I got the car set back down, I started mocking up more of the fuel system.  After hemming and hawing about where to put the surge tank, I decided that slightly underneath the fuel tank would be the best bet.  It's the flattest part of the spare tire well, and is a lot less likely to be impacted in a crash (like it would be out closer to the quarter panels) or be too low to the ground for racing regs (like it would be under the car):

 

Another afternoon I turned my attention to the exhaust manifolds.  I acquired a driver's side 200SX VG manifold from a local guy, but it had a sheared off stud.  Some quality time with a torch and a pair of adjustable pliers later, I got it out:

 

Next, I made a hard line straightener.  You can buy fancier versions of these for like $200, but I'm not willing to spend that much.  I found some other folks online who'd made them out of angle iron and some closet rollers, so I took a crack at it:

 

Then I did a partial double flare of the hard line with my flaring tool to make it less likely to leak:

 

I did spend some money on a decent Eastwood bender.  My wimpy HF special didn't have any way to bend 3/8" lines, so I needed to do something anyway.  It's a really nice unit that can bend lines up to 180 degrees and has pretty clear marks to help you bend in the right place for the size of line you're using.

Here's the first line I did:

 

I'm going to have to do something about the fuel return on the lower intake manifold though.  I don't like that it sticks straight out to the side, basically meaning that the return will have to drop down over the passenger's side header.  I may cut it off before it makes that 90 to the outside of the car and re-flare it, then run rubber hose across the valve cover near the injectors.  It's possible I may use it as-is, but it'd be a compromise.

[Draker]

I did the same thing with the wheel dollies. Just in the rear though. They work pretty darn good for the price!! I think I'll pick up two more for the front and reinforce with 2x4 like you did.

 

The car looks great btw!!

[jeffball610]

 

Oh my. What was Nissan thinking with that fuel rail? A quick search shows some much simpler setups for the VG30. Why would they have 2 lines to each injector? If you're going to modify it anyway, I would find something less bulky and complicated.

[Stoney]

Some nice modern top feed injectors of the same size that's in there currently on a billet fuel rail on each side with some braided line joining them would be a neat solution, and allow for easy upgrades in the future.

 

It's also not my money, so i'll suggest the most expensive option.

[moath]

Oh my. What was Nissan thinking with that fuel rail? A quick search shows some much simpler setups for the VG30. Why would they have 2 lines to each injector? If you're going to modify it anyway, I would find something less bulky and complicated.

 

It's definitely a bit on the complicated side.  I'm pretty sure one is the fuel ingress and the other is the fuel return.

 

I've got a newer style Pathfinder lower intake manifold that appears to use the same kinds of injectors as the VG30DE and other more modern engines, but I'm concerned the ECU won't drive them properly or some crap like that.  My idea at this point is to minimize the amount of stuff that could confuse me on first startup (ie keep the thing relatively close to the vehicle it came out of) and then in the next phase (which will require larger injectors) I'll address the whole strange lower intake manifold setup.

[moath]

Some nice modern top feed injectors of the same size that's in there currently on a billet fuel rail on each side with some braided line joining them would be a neat solution, and allow for easy upgrades in the future.

 

It's also not my money, so i'll suggest the most expensive option.

 

That'd be pretty much awesome.  I've seen some like that on eBay, but they're hundreds of dollars.

 

I'm keeping costs low at this point, so my goal is to get this going for relatively little additional money out of pocket, and then in the future I'll do something more sophisticated.

[Lockleaf]

Any ecu can run virtually any injector...with one caveat.

 

High impedance injectors or low impedance injectors and which do you need. And you can use an injector resistor box to run high impedance injectors anyways, so it still works.

[moath]

Ok y'all, here's the deal. I'm looking for someone to lend a hand with the electrical aspects of this build. Either someone to come work with me at my place, or a recommendation on where to send the car in the Portland area. I'm not sure I can make the time to fumble through it myself, but with the help of somebody else (or a shop to do it for me?) I think I have a much better shot at actually getting it running. Any suggestions or recommendations?

 

Thanks!

Aaron

[datsunfreak]

Any suggestions or recommendations?

 

Do you know Doug Vandecoevering? He's done a ton of VG stuff...

 

As I recall Dave Lum used a shop there in Portland/Bearverton for some work on his VG30DETT swap, I'll ask and see if perhaps he can steer you in the right direction...