'69 510 wagon IRS rear conversion, for reals

[jaredrawk]

OK,

 

I have seen 3 examples here and elsewhere, two seemingly very custom one with the rear clip from a donor 510.

 

So other than the tons of fabrication, locating an R200, the axles, the punching up to make towers for coil overs, maybe changing the gas tank, probably having to do some sort of disc brake conversion and fitting it all in without losing the back seat or massively spoiling the rear interior, not to mention probably spending more than I should ever...

 

Besides all that does anyone spy a problem or gotcha with using this datsport crossmember to undertake the dream of ine more rear IRS goon?

 

Or does anyone have advice? I do have the help of a good shop. But very few have seem to have taken this on for probably good reason and I know this community to have tons of opinion and knowledge.

 

http://www.datsport.com/Adjustable_rear_cross_member.html

 

The 280 conversion has happened for the front suspension.

 

R200 cause it does have a SR Swap so future proofing against tuning up HP.

[thisismatt]

No one that I've seen has tried a 240/280z rear suspension in a wagon.  In some ways it seems like the mounting points would be more straightforward than the 510's, and you would have an easier time with the geometry I'd guess (no toe-out problems & easier camber adjustment).  Plus there are a few more options for custom adjustable parts, etc.

[datsunwizard]

The big problem is there isn't a lot of room between the bottom of the cargo floor and the bottom of the "A" arms/trailing arms. So most conversations go into the cargo department as was mentioned with the springs. There are a few people that have dealt with this problem, one is to use a transverse mounted spring (which I think is very in genus and thinking outside the box);

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/56836-super-low-irs-wagon-build/

 

 or use a very short coil-over "A" arm design  which I have been working on;

 

http://www.the510rea....php?f=3&t=8375

 

IMHO, if you are going thru all the work necessary to put IRS into a wagon, put in a far superior suspension design than the 510 sedan trailing arm design. The 240-280z or double "A" arm design is a much better design. The only thing that the 510 trailing arm has going for it is the width is correct for the wagon and possibly the height less the springs.

[jrock4224]

more room then a four link ... I have switched to putting a irs in my goon for more reasons then one....

 

 

WAIT so Datsun wizard u claim theres no room then suggest going to a even more complicated and less space saving irs.... just use a 510 or 610 irs ..... haters gonna hate ... shit that's why I am here..

[Mads510]

OK,

 

I have seen 3 examples here and elsewhere, two seemingly very custom one with the rear clip from a donor 510.

 

So other than the tons of fabrication, locating an R200, the axles, the punching up to make towers for coil overs, maybe changing the gas tank, probably having to do some sort of disc brake conversion and fitting it all in without losing the back seat or massively spoiling the rear interior, not to mention probably spending more than I should ever...

 

Besides all that does anyone spy a problem or gotcha with using this datsport crossmember to undertake the dream of ine more rear IRS goon?

 

Or does anyone have advice? I do have the help of a good shop. But very few have seem to have taken this on for probably good reason and I know this community to have tons of opinion and knowledge.

 

http://www.datsport.com/Adjustable_rear_cross_member.html

 

The 280 conversion has happened for the front suspension.

 

R200 cause it does have a SR Swap so future proofing against tuning up HP.

 

 

No one that I've seen has tried a 240/280z rear suspension in a wagon.  In some ways it seems like the mounting points would be more straightforward than the 510's, and you would have an easier time with the geometry I'd guess (no toe-out problems & easier camber adjustment).  Plus there are a few more options for custom adjustable parts, etc.

 

 

The big problem is there isn't a lot of room between the bottom of the cargo floor and the bottom of the "A" arms/trailing arms. So most conversations go into the cargo department as was mentioned with the springs. There are a few people that have dealt with this problem, one is to use a transverse mounted spring (which I think is very in genus and thinking outside the box);

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/56836-super-low-irs-wagon-build/

 

 or use a very short coil-over "A" arm design  which I have been working on;

 

http://www.the510rea....php?f=3&t=8375

 

IMHO, if you are going thru all the work necessary to put IRS into a wagon, put in a far superior suspension design than the 510 sedan trailing arm design. The 240-280z or double "A" arm design is a much better design. The only thing that the 510 trailing arm has going for it is the width is correct for the wagon and possibly the height less the springs.

Check out on events at the O.C. Datsun Meeting and check out my pops Wagon/Truck with a 280zx differential and disk break!!! it can be done that's just a quick project! my 71 goon might be next!!

[]2eDeYe]

It's fairly easy to stay out of the cargo area, you do have to cut under the rear seat a little though.

 

 

 

 

Still can run the seat no problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The coil overs mount to that cross member. You can see the mounts in the picture with the diff not installed.

 

 

[jaredrawk]

Keep it comming this is all excellent, excellent stuff!

[datsunwizard]

more room then a four link ... I have switched to putting a irs in my goon for more reasons then one....

 

 

WAIT so Datsun wizard u claim theres no room then suggest going to a even more complicated and less space saving irs.... just use a 510 or 610 irs ..... haters gonna hate ... shit that's why I am here..

On most of wagons that have been done using the 510, 610 semi trailing arm design, the springs go into the cargo compartment and/or have the coil overs at extreme angles or have no suspension travel because of too short of shocks. As I mentioned before, the semi trailing IRS has a lot of comprises, so that why I am designing a double "A" arm suspension that is tunable for track use and the cargo compartment doesn't look modified. I am not going for a super low wagon, but want I wagon that handles.

[jrock4224]

_{go to google.... type in irs goon ratsun ..... should open up every thread to look at and prolly every post where I said I would go irs if I had to do it again ..... no I go irs and never have to do it again.... yeah...no pics other projects first ...}

[jaredrawk]

The feedback, links and searches you have all provided have clarified, inspired and solidified some things.  This is now leaning to a strut type IRS.  So more similiar to the 280zx than the springs and shocks of the 510 or changing a 510 to coil over.  This I believe will give the best combination of stance, adjustability, handling and performance, with the kind of cabin instrusions I am willing to accept.

 

Now the current discussion is starting to turn towards the decision of whether to start by finding and rehabbing a 280zx donor end, or work with a specialist to fabricate a rear end to use.

[Laecaon]

Miata or 240sx rear? Both would need to be narrowed, miata less though. Clearance issues are everywhere of course.

[datsunwizard]

Miata or 240sx rear? Both would need to be narrowed, miata less though. Clearance issues are everywhere of course.

Miata= narrowed about 5.5"

[datsunwizard]

The 280zx has the same compromises as the 510, 610 when it comes to toe changing during suspension travel. The Miata or 240sx is a much better design.

[Stupid_fast]

280zx has I believe 1-2" wider rear track than the 510 due to the trailing arm design. 

 

 

Miata or 240sx rear? Both would need to be narrowed, miata less though. Clearance issues are everywhere of course.

 

 

Miata 1990 rear track 56.2 inches ... 240sx S13 57.7 in ... From my searches.

 

H190 wagon is 53 inches hub-hub (track width).  Miata would require 1.5" flares with stock offset ... 240SX would require 2.5" flare for stock offset. or shorten everything. 

 

Is this correct ??? Everything I can find implies this is correct ... someone double check my results ??

 

 

 

Someone put a wagon on a rotisserie already and start fitting subframes.  I don't have the garage for it!

[jrock4224]

I think the main reason u don't see the miata and 240 stuff cuz reengineering it by shortening it is a lot of work ... its not just as easy as remove this here and weld that there......and if the trailing arm design wasn't desired I wonder how it whooped up on the race track like that...I keed ...well ,  kinda

[jaredrawk]

When it comes to creating strut towers, anyone want to share opinions on this basic design?  Thoughts being yes you see the towers, but hopefully nothing bisecting the space.  Also cut into the deck, put in a cross member of some type so the top is level with the deck.  Weld it all up, put down carpet so it disappears.

 

 

[jrock4224]

I am of the opinion that there needs to be a sticky thread (maybe this one re titled to goon irs swap pics and experiences..) that has all of the bad ass goon irs set ups .... from the wagon of doom ... to troys race wagon...to layed outs corvette sprung irs.....to the pink halo from idol rides shop..... that way its all in one spot..... I will add to it at somepoint...as I accomplish ....just a thread for discusioon and pics mainly ..... in laymans terms we can still have our build threads but it could be a thread that just u come and make a post f the process and final assembly pics.....I have to many icons on  my desk top of sick ass irs goons and linked straight axle goons...I want all one too ......

 

and a sub catorgory with nwdatsuns in it cuz I miss all them guys and don't get over there enough

[jrock4224]

trying to remember the goon that used the strut towers from a sedan ... they spliced the two inner fender halves......that was a sick build

[hobbes_the_cat]

This car sadly was never finished but there is some good pics and info there. It got built to the point of being a roller and he put some thought into it. Everything lined up nicely and looked like it would have drove nice. Back seat would have worked with minimal fab work.

 

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/13067-70-wagon-irs-swap-project/

[jrock4224]

bngo that's the one I believe..... had my floor been rusty I was thinking this would be cool.....thanks for the link