Z-noob dilema... Should I buy a $900 Z31 or save for an S30?

[joseph1994]

I'm 19, looking to start a project (my first). I found a 89 300zx n/a in my area for 900 bucks. The car runs and drives and has minimal rust. It doesn't have an exhaust its running on open manifolds and the seller says the rear suspension is "shot". He doesn't know exactly whats wrong but the car is really bouncy in the back. Otherwise everything else seemed good. He claimed besides the exhaust and suspension the car could easily be a reliable daily. There are some rust spots but it's very minimal. I think it's a sweet deal for the price.

 

I think Z31s are sexy as hell when done right and a few out there are stupid fast hanging with big dogs like Vettes, GTRs, Supras, bikes, ect. But I've always wanted an S30... They're even better looking not to mention lighter.

 

So my question is this.. For the price, is it worth jumping on this 300zx or would I be better off saving for an S30 since I want it more? Any reason why I shouldn't get a Z31? Any reason why I should choose it over an S30? How difficult is it to make big power with the VG30? I want big power, at least 500 to the wheels and 10s in the 1/4 while still being streetable. I prefer to get the most out of the VG30 before swapping but if I can't achieve my goals with it I'll either be going with an RB or LSX swap. But I want something streetable that can be a weekend warrior and maybe drive to work/school a couple days out of the week. I know it can easily be done with an LS1 or other LS motor. Not sure about the RB motors. But the same goes for the L28... Considering the lighter weight of the S30 could I reach 10s with the L28 while still being streetable?

I don't know much about anything besides LS motors so if my goals are just plain ridiculous to expect with an L28 or VG30 please tell me. I'm a noob.

 

In the end I know it comes down to me and I have to decide, but I've been thinking on it for weeks and I just can't make up my mind... So I'm just asking for opinions/advice from others who are more knowledgeable about these cars.

[mhub91]

Honestly, I think Z31's are fugly as hell, just my two cents right off the bat.

 

First of all, do you realize how much money, time and effort it will take to make 500rwhp? Please listen when I tell you this - I have had 25+ cars, including Datsuns, Mazdas, Nissans, Mitusbishis and the list just keeps going. I've ran into a few problems when doing these projects.... First problem, do you have space to make this 500 hp monster that you're going to daily? Second - do you have the cash? Doubtful. Do you have the tools? Reliable machine shop. Knowledge to make this come true or are you going to rely on your friends to help all the time? and one final thing..... Seriously? 10 second car? Hmph......

 

Not trying to burst your bubble. But be realistic bud. Have fun with your car. Love it. Don't try to have a slam-bam project and fantasizing about some crap you see on Youtube or Import Tuner. Buckle down, buy what you want, and stick with it. It builds character.

 

To be more direct with your question.... buy the Z31 or save for a S30?

 

My opinion is S30. Way cooler style, a large after market and a huge support group for questions.

 

my 2 cents.

[joseph1994]

Honestly, I think Z31's are fugly as hell, just my two cents right off the bat.

 

First of all, do you realize how much money, time and effort it will take to make 500rwhp? Please listen when I tell you this - I have had 25+ cars, including Datsuns, Mazdas, Nissans, Mitusbishis and the list just keeps going. I've ran into a few problems when doing these projects.... First problem, do you have space to make this 500 hp monster that you're going to daily? Second - do you have the cash? Doubtful. Do you have the tools? Reliable machine shop. Knowledge to make this come true or are you going to rely on your friends to help all the time? and one final thing..... Seriously? 10 second car? Hmph......

 

Not trying to burst your bubble. But be realistic bud. Have fun with your car. Love it. Don't try to have a slam-bam project and fantasizing about some crap you see on Youtube or Import Tuner. Buckle down, buy what you want, and stick with it. It builds character.

 

To be more direct with your question.... buy the Z31 or save for a S30?

 

My opinion is S30. Way cooler style, a large after market and a huge support group for questions.

 

my 2 cents.

What's wrong with wanting to run 10s...? 

 

As far as money goes, it's a long term project so yes I have money but it will not be dumped out all within a few months.

Theres a very well equipped DIY garage where I plan to do a lot of the work myself with the help of friends. Also don't get whats wrong with having friends help? More hands get more work done faster... Especially with the more difficult stuff theres nothing wrong with having a helping hand... I really don't get where you were going with that.

 

I've been into LSX cars for years now and 500whp and 10s with those motors is not a fantasy as you make it sound like it is with the VG30... Is that what you were trying to say? Hell, theres LSXs that run 8s reliablyand are still streetable. But theres a VG30 Z31 that runs mid-low 9s?

 

I asked if my goals are realistic. I'm assuming they're not according to you... All I needed was a yes or no answer and an explanation and maybe a better path I could take to achieve my goal. Not you telling me not to fantasize and have a slam bam project whatever that means. Let me worry about space, money, ect. I just want feedback on which car/motor is better, taking into consideration the low price of the 300zx, and what would be the best way to reach my goals. Thats all. I got nothing useful from your response.

 

Honestly, I think you're kind of a dick, just my 2 cents.... I was told the members on here are nice and extremely helpful so hopefully the rest are not like you and are actually willing to help me.

[motavated]

I feel the 89 z would be cheaper to source parts and that VG30 is plentyful at the yards. The inline 6 in the 240z is to me garbage. So if your state is big on smog iaws then Ii would probably go with a early z with an engine swap. If not then the 89 300zx is tits. better if its a slick top. If it is buy it and flip iit.

[joseph1994]

I feel the 89 z would be cheaper to source parts and that VG30 is plentyful at the yards. The inline 6 in the 240z is to me garbage. So if your state is big on smog iaws then Ii would probably go with a early z with an engine swap. If not then the 89 300zx is tits. better if its a slick top. If it is buy it and flip iit.

Thanks, if I got a 240z I wouldn't be keeping the L24 so thats not a concern as far as 240s go. For a motor swap for the 240z or if it was a 280z then thats where my question about the L28s potential comes into play and the decision of then going RB or LS powered. I live in Florida so there are no emissions/smog laws thankfully. What is a slick top? Is that a hard top? The one Im looking at has t-tops so I don't think it's a slick top.

[jser12]

Unless you have a large trust fund, parents are rich, or a huge inheritance from somewhere.... 500hp to the wheels is gonna be expensive as balls.

Personally in my opinion, buy an S30, drop an RB in it and get it to 250-300hp. I promise it will be just as fun as a 300zx and will turn a lot more heads.

[joseph1994]

Unless you have a large trust fund, parents are rich, or a huge inheritance from somewhere.... 500hp to the wheels is gonna be expensive as balls.

Personally in my opinion, buy an S30, drop an RB in it and get it to 250-300hp. I promise it will be just as fun as a 300zx and will turn a lot more heads.

If it's as expensive as you guys say I guess Im better off with an LS swap. I said I want big power. The bone stock LS1 f-body I drive now makes more than 300whp and Im bored with that level of power already so 250-300 wouldn't keep me satisfied for very long even in a lighter car. I think you guys are exaggerating about the money. Considering I'd only be spending 900 bucks on the Z31 and maybe 3k on a running S30 in decent condition. I think another 15-20k on top of that is sufficient to reach my goals. And if I'm patient and smart about it, make some connections, and get good deals I'm certain I could do it for a little cheaper. Still looking for an answer to my questions though..... Can I reach my goals with the L28 or VG30 while still keeping it streetable or not? I know I said 500whp but thats just a ballpark number. I'm more concerned with 1/4 times, trap speed, and handling than I am with a dyno number. But I figured 500whp is about the number I'd be at for 135mph traps in a 2800lb car. I'd need less power if I were to get an S30... So besides weight and looks, what are the pros and cons of the Z31 vs the S30? 

[mhub91]

Unless you have a large trust fund, parents are rich, or a huge inheritance from somewhere.... 500hp to the wheels is gonna be expensive as balls.

Personally in my opinion, buy an S30, drop an RB in it and get it to 250-300hp. I promise it will be just as fun as a 300zx and will turn a lot more heads.

Thank you for summing up exactly what I was trying to say. 

 

I know I was kind of a dick, but hell... who cares, this is the internet.

 

500hp may be easily achievable in bunny foo foo LS whatever land.... but welcome to Datsun world where 200hp is cherished and usually not attainable by the average datsun enthusiast.

[mhub91]

...another 15-20k on top of that is sufficient to reach my goals...

 

How the hell can you say 15-20k so easily? Man... whatever you do to get money -- i want in on it, haha!

[jser12]

500hp may be easily achievable in bunny foo foo LS whatever land.... but welcome to Datsun world where 200hp is cherished and usually not attainable by the average datsun enthusiast.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[joseph1994]

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

How the hell can you say 15-20k so easily? Man... whatever you do to get money -- i want in on it, haha!

 

 

 

I guess I'm sticking with LSX then. Like I said... long term project. That 15-20k will be spread out over the next 5 years or so. I don't think thats unreasonable at all. Especially while I'm in school and have minimal other expenses I can save most of my money for the next 3-4 years or just put it into the car as I go. I already said this isn't going to be done in a few months..... I again feel you are exaggerating about 200hp being so hard to reach. That's ridiculous... Look at build threads on various sites and youtube vids. Theres plenty of turbo VG30s and L28s making 250+ at the wheels without any major work... You guys are really just being negative nancys. Still waiting for someone to really help me out here.

[monkbonk]

I've had both a 1986 300zx slicktop and a 1976 280z at a time. I enjoyed driving the z31 a bit more, but didn't like working on it. I could never get a good cold start from it thanks to the chts. My z31 was also plagued by a doofy headlight switch that didn't work, dead hatch struts, bad rear shocks that sunk when I caught wind drag (windows open), etc. The earlier Z's were of better build quality imo and despite the z31 being a blast to run around in.. I miss the 280z more. I'm in the market for another one, and I don't see myself ever going back to a z31.

[devilsbullet]

 

 

I guess I'm sticking with LSX then. Like I said... long term project. That 15-20k will be spread out over the next 5 years or so. I don't think thats unreasonable at all. Especially while I'm in school and have minimal other expenses I can save most of my money for the next 3-4 years or just put it into the car as I go. I already said this isn't going to be done in a few months..... I again feel you are exaggerating about 200hp being so hard to reach. That's ridiculous... Look at build threads on various sites and youtube vids. Theres plenty of turbo VG30s and L28s making 250+ at the wheels without any major work... You guys are really just being negative nancys. Still waiting for someone to really help me out here.

 

I dunno about the vgs, but show me some l28s making 250+ at the wheels without any major work that will last farther than a few trips down the drag strip.  turbo l28s came stock tuned to about 7-8 pounds of boost, with no intercooler.  dunno how much the internals will hold up to, but if all they did was dial up the boost and add an intercooler, its a blown engine waiting to happen. I have seen guys pullin 350 or so out of an l28et, they have over 10k in their engine alone, some have much more than that. I think what everyones getting at with how expensive its gonna be is all the other shit you are gonna have to upgrade. to get 500 hp reliably out of an l28, you're probably gonna be pushin your 20k. then theres rear end, suspension, tranny, breaks, roll cage, rewiring of at least part of the car(might as well do it all while you're in there), good tires, computer to map your new fuel delivery system(megasquirt or the like), the list goes on and on. last guy I talked to that had a high hp l28et s30 was over 40k in, and was makin 335 to the rear wheels. he also hadn't had anything blow up on him in over 10k miles driven on major components either tho.

[datrod]

OK.

I'll help ya out here. Get your self that 3K S30 put an LS6 in it BAM!! done deal. The Z31 is a nice car but I think the money you would spend to get where you want to be would be more than an LS swap.

 

I've been doing Z cars (S30's only) for longer than you have been on this great planet. I know of one guy thad did the LS6 swap and like you 430 Hp was not enough for him. But let me tell ya that car is Freaking fast.  I also have another friend that has a twin turbo small block S30 that I'm pretty sure run's in the 9's. And he can drive it on the street. But he is older and has some money to toss at the car.

 

You say your 19 yrs old. You have plenty of time to make this happen, But by the time you finish it you will want something else.

 

Good luck with your build.

[Raggleflaggle]

I say save for a s30, if you're planning on doing an engine swap buy a non running s30 with a decent body. if you plan to swap ANYTHING, LEARN TO FAB. don't rely on your friends for fab, learn it yourself.  welding skills also allow you to repair penetrative rust spots.

that said, if you buy the $900 car it seems like you're in the hole on elements you would need even with a swap. buy something that's cheap due to engine/ tranny failure. (stuff you would toss anyway) 

i agree with other members about your time/cost estimates. they always increase. i will end the naysaying in hoping that you can stay true to your goals.

[cdub42]

S30 all the way. i was in the same situation trying to decide which one i wanted... 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/44848-i-want-a-z/

[mrbigtanker]

OK.

I'll help ya out here. Get your self that 3K S30 put an LS6 in it BAM!! done deal. The Z31 is a nice car but I think the money you would spend to get where you want to be would be more than an LS swap.

 

I've been doing Z cars (S30's only) for longer than you have been on this great planet. I know of one guy thad did the LS6 swap and like you 430 Hp was not enough for him. But let me tell ya that car is Freaking fast.  I also have another friend that has a twin turbo small block S30 that I'm pretty sure run's in the 9's. And he can drive it on the street. But he is older and has some money to toss at the car.

 

You say your 19 yrs old. You have plenty of time to make this happen, But by the time you finish it you will want something else.

 

Good luck with your build.

John your not talking about me right,lol

[joseph1994]

OK.

I'll help ya out here. Get your self that 3K S30 put an LS6 in it BAM!! done deal. The Z31 is a nice car but I think the money you would spend to get where you want to be would be more than an LS swap.

 

I've been doing Z cars (S30's only) for longer than you have been on this great planet. I know of one guy thad did the LS6 swap and like you 430 Hp was not enough for him. But let me tell ya that car is Freaking fast.  I also have another friend that has a twin turbo small block S30 that I'm pretty sure run's in the 9's. And he can drive it on the street. But he is older and has some money to toss at the car.

 

You say your 19 yrs old. You have plenty of time to make this happen, But by the time you finish it you will want something else.

 

Good luck with your build.

I'm a hardcore LSX guy man and I know thats the best/cheapest route to go. The only reason I wana stick with an L/VG/RB motor is to fully experience the import side of things. I've also taken into consideration the last part of what you said. If I get the Z31 I'll probably still be longing for an S30 when I'm finished. If I get an S30 I can't see myself ever wanting anything else... I wish I could just have both haha.

 

I say save for a s30, if you're planning on doing an engine swap buy a non running s30 with a decent body. if you plan to swap ANYTHING, LEARN TO FAB. don't rely on your friends for fab, learn it yourself.  welding skills also allow you to repair penetrative rust spots.

 

that said, if you buy the $900 car it seems like you're in the hole on elements you would need even with a swap. buy something that's cheap due to engine/ tranny failure. (stuff you would toss anyway) 

 

i agree with other members about your time/cost estimates. they always increase. i will end the naysaying in hoping that you can stay true to your goals.

Im trying to find a welding class to take. It's difficult with school and work though. I think 900 bucks is a good deal regardless, cause any S30 with a decent body is gona run a good bit more than that.

 

I dunno about the vgs, but show me some l28s making 250+ at the wheels without any major work that will last farther than a few trips down the drag strip.  turbo l28s came stock tuned to about 7-8 pounds of boost, with no intercooler.  dunno how much the internals will hold up to, but if all they did was dial up the boost and add an intercooler, its a blown engine waiting to happen. I have seen guys pullin 350 or so out of an l28et, they have over 10k in their engine alone, some have much more than that. I think what everyones getting at with how expensive its gonna be is all the other shit you are gonna have to upgrade. to get 500 hp reliably out of an l28, you're probably gonna be pushin your 20k. then theres rear end, suspension, tranny, breaks, roll cage, rewiring of at least part of the car(might as well do it all while you're in there), good tires, computer to map your new fuel delivery system(megasquirt or the like), the list goes on and on. last guy I talked to that had a high hp l28et s30 was over 40k in, and was makin 335 to the rear wheels. he also hadn't had anything blow up on him in over 10k miles driven on major components either tho.

There's a few on youtube that aren't crazy built. Theres one about 20 mins from me making an estimated 260whp with stock turbo, intercooler, full exhaust, all the bolt on stuff, cam, and head work. I went for a ride in it and it definitely feels right for that number. The kid has about 8k in the motor. 40k is ridiculous to only make 335 I have a hard time believing some of these money claims. 

 

 

[devilsbullet]

that's because you're just looking at motor. 335 is sittin at about 13k in the motor.  the other 27k is in everything else so he doesn't kill himself with the motor... and that 260 is a. estimated, and b. how much did he drop on everything else...brakes, suspension, cage, wiring, diff, tranny...

[joseph1994]

that's because you're just looking at motor. 335 is sittin at about 13k in the motor.  the other 27k is in everything else so he doesn't kill himself with the motor... and that 260 is a. estimated, and b. how much did he drop on everything else...brakes, suspension, cage, wiring, diff, tranny...

True... I still think it can be done for 20k if I'm patient and find the good deals. I'm not too familiar with these cars but I tons of people have figured out how to make big reliable safe power on a budget with other cars so I'm sure it can be done with Z cars too, while still keeping it Nissan and not going LS powered. I've gathered from you guys that the L28 may not be the best way to go. But what about the VG30? Not much feedback from you guys on that one yet. Tons of RB motors making big power too... How expensive is it to make power with those?

[mhub91]

I'm still in awe with you. you're 19yrs old and are able to spend 20k....

 

damn I must be doing something wrong...

[jser12]

Through a VQ in there.

Or go 2jz... The stock internals have been rated to handle 800hp.

 

Edit: since you the money.... VR38DETT???

[Raggleflaggle]

well seeing as your total project cost is measured in five digits, start strong. don't base your whole plan on taking the economical route. if you're gonna drop ridiculous money, the best and only real way to justify it when you're 10k in and want out is being able to look at the car, and still have that same ambitious thought you had when you first saw it. also, check the CL up here in AL. if you've got good friends then you should have someone that can lend you a trailer, because i could fin a non-running s30 or two up here for cheap (er) than your 900.

[PDX Matt]

The members might seem like dicks here but I don't think you realize how ridiculous your expectations are. And I say that in the nicest way possible.

 

500whp, no matter the platform will always be VERY expensive and in a lot of cases it's not as easily achievable as you might think. Doing it the cheap way will also make it more expensive in the long run. Add in the fact that you'll be doing this with an older chassis and the problems build and build. If you've never had a car with a lot of power I would start small then see how you like it. 

 

You mentioned an LS swap which isn't exactly cheap either.

 

There's an old saying: "Cheap, reliable, fast. Pick two."

[2050-Z]

How the hell can you say 15-20k so easily? Man... whatever you do to get money -- i want in on it, haha!

 

lol. Imagine putting $20k into a Z31.