2.1L Long rod

[hobbes_the_cat]

I have a z22 block with a L20b crank and it runs like a raped ape but it is pretty shaky.

[converted_to_datsun]

So a z20e block for the 2.1 long rod? The peices for that motor say L20b crank, is the z20e crank similar?

[GreaseMonky]

So a z20e block for the 2.1 long rod? The peices for that motor say L20b crank, is the z20e crank similar?

 

I am using a Z20e block, came with the right rods, for the long rod, and from what i can tell, the Z20E crank, looks the same as a L20B crank

[converted_to_datsun]

boring the block for the z22e pistons and getting the pistons pressed on the rods would be all needed done? I'll definitely wanna hear how that works out. that's make to motor build pretty easy. Just buy a z20e short block and get z22e pistons.

[converted_to_datsun]

pin height for the z20e pistons is 227.15 and deck height of -0.3 below for the z22e 227.6 and +.15 above. Which just changing the pistons would make the new deck height +0.15 above. the normal long rod 2.1L has a deck height +0.05 above. so i think the crank for the z20e is a bit different. ( just looked up the numbers) is that better to be higher above?

[GreaseMonky]

pin height for the z20e pistons is 227.15 and deck height of -0.3 below for the z22e 227.6 and +.15 above. Which just changing the pistons would make the new deck height +0.15 above. the normal long rod 2.1L has a deck height +0.05 above. so i think the crank for the z20e is a bit different. ( just looked up the numbers) is that better to be higher above?

 

The crank has the same stroke, the pin height on the z22 is lower cause the rod for the z22 is the same length, so the pin height on a z20e is higher on the piston, because of the longer rod.  I am going to be using vg30e pistons because the pin height is the same as a z20e piston, and the vg30 piston is 87mm stock, I am going to use 1mm over size, so i will be at 88mm.

 

I have heard of people using different pistons, such as ka24, and having the tops milled down, maybe youcan do the same with a z22?

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Boys you are getting off topic. It's all good info, but it's the 2.1 motor that needs this info. L20B crank / Z22E pistons or equivalent, / Z20E long (6" or  152.5mm) rods.

I can't remember, is there a Z22 piston that has the right pin height and dish? You say Z22E? Do you have to cut the piston at all? It has been so long since I have bored a L motor to 87mm (I usually skip that and go 89mm).

[datzenmike]

pretty damn sure mines an L because I don't remember seeing that when the manifolds were off

.

Easy to check. Look behind the dip stick. The boss on the top edge of the block will say L??

.

 

 

This is interesting...

My bored Z22 with 7 coolant holes drilled

 

 

Z22(?) with those holes also drilled out....almost looks like a Z24 deck

.

There are two Z22 blocks. The '81 720. And '82 and '83 720 and 200sx so maybe this is the difference???

 

 

 

I like the z20e block, i had no issues taking it out .120, and was considering going to .160, and the Z20E crank is fully counterweight, so that helps with the shakes

 

 

I am using a Z20e block, came with the right rods, for the long rod, and from what i can tell, the Z20E crank, looks the same as a L20B crank

This is because the L20B and the Z20E use the exact same 12201-U6000 or U60 cast crank. Exactly the same.

[converted_to_datsun]

I can't remember, is there a Z22 piston that has the right pin height and dish? You say Z22E? Do you have to cut the piston at all? It has been so long since I have bored a L motor to 87mm (I usually skip that and go 89mm).

Yea I guess the z22e came in 81-83 200sx. I'm just going off the parts list from the Jason grey thread for the 2.1 long rod.

 

Frankenstein motors: collect all the parts at pick-n-pull JY and buy it as a rebuildable $50 short block Medium block 2.4 Liter. Stuff a Z24 crank and pistons into NAPS-Z or L20B block bored to 89mm by cutting down crank counterweights and clearance grinding block as per Ben Pila. This gives you a 2389cc L-series motor that doesnt require using defective (crack prone) Z24 block, fabricating timing cover, lengthening timing chain or modification to close hood. Z24 piston tops will need to be milled down slightly. Fedral-Mogul 33.8mm pin height pistons might not need milling? Click HERE for Bens write-up of necessary modifications. Compression ratio with Z24 pistons and open chambered head is 10.25:1 before pistons milled. parts: : modified Z22 block, modified Z24 crank, modified Z24 pistons, Z22S/ L20B rods s/2+r+p: 227.7 piston deck height: 0.45 (above deck) Stroker 2.3 Liter Stuff a Z24 crank into a modified Z20/Z22/L20B block by cutting down counterweights as above. No piston modification or block boring needed for 2283cc L series. see http://hobbslaw.nissanpower.com/custom2.html for an example Russ noted that his deck height measured -1.77mm with the Z22E pistons that he first tried using, he eventually used milled Z22S pistons to achieve a higher compression ratio. Parts: Z24 crank, Z22E pistons, Z22S/ L20B rods in a Z22 block or +2mm bored Z20/L20B block. s/2+r+p= 96/2+145.9+32.1= 226.0 mm piston deck height: -1.45mm below deck Big Bore 2.3L KA24 pistons into a bored Z20/Z22/L20B block. The small 2.8cc dish area of the KA24 pistons helps to preserve compression ratio even with the low piston deck height. Compression ratio with a open chambered U67 head is 9.9:1 or use dished Z24 pistons and peanut chambered head for 8.9:1 compression ratio. Parts: Z22 crank, KA24 pistons, Z22S/ L20B rods in a +2mm bored Z22 block or +4mm Z20/L20B block. s/2+r+p= 92/2+145.9+34.0= 225.9 mm piston deck height: -1.55mm below deck Longrod 2.19L/2.24L Start with VG30E pistons and have the tops milled by 2.7mm to produce 29mm pin height. Custom pistons of similar specifications would also be recommended. Using the long Z20E connecting rods gives this engine a better rod/stroke ratio of 1.66:1. (stock Z22 rod/stroke ratio is 1.59:1). Start with +1mm VG30E pistons and bore the block +1mm to 88mm to gain a bit more displacement (2238cc). This engine with custom 89mm pistons is rumored to be the basis for the "rebello 2.3L". parts: Z22 crankshaft, Z22 block, Z20E rods, milled VG30E pistons. s/2+r+p: 227.5mm piston deck height: +0.05mm (above block) Long rod 2.1 L I really like the possibilities for this 2.1L longrod motor. For a more in depth analysis of this motor click HERE. Parts: L20B crank, Z22E pistons, Z20E rods in a Z22block or Z20/L20B block bored +2mm s/2+r+p: 227.9mm piston deck height: +0.05mm (above block) Long rod L18 flattop Z20S pistons and peanut chamber head for 9.7:1 CR, better rod/stroke ratio for higher RPM. Parts: L18 crank, L18 block, L16 rods, Z20S pistons s/2+r+p: 207.66mm piston deck height: -0.29 (below deck) Low compression combinations for use with turbochargers Turbo 2.2L 7.87:1 Compression ratio with 45.2cc open chambered head. Parts: Z22 crank, 2.2E pistons, Z22S/L20B rods in Z22block or Z20/L20B block bored +2mm, s/2+r+p: 224.4 piston deck height: -3.45 (below block) Medium-Long Rod Turbo 2.05L Use 32.1mm piston, 149.5mm rod from late Z22E. These rods are not as sturdy as onther L series rods. Parts: L20B crank, Z2.2e pistons, Z22e rods, Z22 bock or Z20/L20B block bored +2mm over s/2+r+p: 224.1 piston deck height: -2.85 (below block) Short Rod L16 This is my current low compression L16 for turbo use. 7.8:1 CR using 37cc cylinder head. Lowering compression of a L16 would be easier by just installing a open chambered L20B head and using stock bottom end. I just wanted to utilize a good 37cc head I already had. parts: L16 crank, L18 rods, L24 (flattop) pistons, L16 block. s/2+r+p: 205.2mm piston deck height: -2.70mm (below deck) Turbo L18 Use deep dished L20B pistons in a otherwize stock L18 for 7.63:1 compression ratio (using open chambered head) or bore +1mm and use dished 280Z pistons for 7.85:1 compression ratio.

More on the infamous...Long rod 2.1L motor parts: L20B or Z20 crank, Z22E pistons, Z20E rods in a Z22 block or +2mm bored L20B/Z20 block This would be the best HIGH REVING, increased displacement, high compression, engine you could build from the mdium height L20B/Z20/Z22 size block. A "standard" L/Z 2.2 would have 5% more displacement and better midrange torque than this engine but the 2.1 longrod motor with 86mm fully counter weighted L20B/Z20 crank will suffer less vibraton at high RPM than the 1/2 counterbalanced Z22 crank and the hybrid 2.1L will have a slightly oversquare bore/stroke ratio, so better reving than the Z22 "truck engine".Rod to stroke ratio of the 2.1L motor is 1.77:1. Of all the possible L series motors only the L16 has a higher rod/stroke ratio (1.80:1). The long Z20E rods will reduce stress on pistons and help to make more HP at high RPM. The 1.5mm thick Z22E piston compression rings are thinner than 2.0mm L series piston rings so put less stress on the piston ring lands and are less prone to flutter at high RPM. In short, this motor should be a screamer if you build it well, balanced the rotating assembly, and use a suitable RPM cam, head and induction system. The HOW TO MODIFY bible cautions against allowing the piston to come further than 0.30mm above the deck top, when built with 32.1mm pin height late Z22E pistons (1/82 and later), this motor when build would have the piston tops 0.05mm above. The "bad" honzowetz spec chart list Z22E pistons as having 32.5mm pin height so verify that you have the correct pistons. With a high duration cam and high octane gas to reduce risk of detonation, you should be able to use a peanut chambered head to get higher CR and better chamber shape. The peanut head will be more detonation resistant for a given CR vs a open chambered head. If you are re-using old Z22E pistons, they will be 87mm. Engine displacement will be 2044cc.If you are buying new pistons, get Z22E pistons in +1mm oversize, 88mm and bore the L20B or Z20 block +3mm to 88mm or convert a Z22 block and bore only +1mm. Engine displacement with 88mm pistons will be 2092cc for a near true 2.1L motor. Did I mention that this motor make HP at high RPM!?? With 87mm bore, 86mm stroke producing 511cc of swept cylinder area, 9.32cc piston dish, 7.0cc gasket volume and the piston raised up above top of block by .05mm, using an open chambered head (U67 or A87) of 45.2cc volume, I calculate a CR of 9.31:1 or, if you used a 41cc peanut chambered head head, CR of 9.92:1. Check and verify the piston dish area and piston deck height! Since planning this motor, I have realized that it should be possible to use VG30E pistons in this engine instead of the Z22E pistons. I am just not sure if the VG30E piston pins would be compatible with the L series connecting rods, I have seen conflicting specs for the VG30E piston pins that would/would not work depending on who is right. As far as I can tell, the earliest VG30E pistons used wristpins pressed into the rods while the later VG30E pistons use full floating rods retained by circlips.The pressed in pins should work on the L series rods (measure and verify!) of if you use full floating pistons, ensure adequate clearance between wristpin and conncerting rod hole and it will be necessary to drill oil supply holes in the connecting rod to splash lubricate the pin bore. The VG30E piston pin height is the same 31.75mm as Z20E pistons so the piston top would not protrude above the block thus no modifications to piston would be necessary. Compression ratio would be slightly higher with the VG30E pistons because they do not have the large piston dish of the Z22 pistons.

[RAT510]

I can't remember, is there a Z22 piston that has the right pin height and dish? You say Z22E? Do you have to cut the piston at all? It has been so long since I have bored a L motor to 87mm (I usually skip that and go 89mm).

 

At this stage im using the following parts and specs to build my 2.1 long rod

 

L20B block - bored

L20B crank - std

Z20E rods – 152.5 mm

Z22E pistons - 32.1 pin height (from the jason grey sticky these are 1/82 or later)

Gasket height – 1.2mm

A87 peanut shaped chamber head - std height

 

 

Im using a L20B block,  because I have it, if you use the above parts and bore it out 2mm over std size to suit 87mm Z22E pistons you should end up with a motor that is 2045 according the the helix calculator and around 10:1 CR

 

If you use the L20B block and bore it out 3mm over std size to suit Z22E pistons you should end up with a motor that is 2092cc

 

If you use the above parts but use the Z22 block you get the same figures but there is no need to bore the Z22 as much. the std Z22 block will give you 2045cc and 1mm over will give you 2092cc

 

That’s my understanding of it all. As far as I have read no need to cut down or modify pistons etc.

 

The only thing that concered me or I found different is

• Boring the L20B to 88mm if your chasing the 2092cc might cause some issues? I think I would feel much better only about boring it to 87mm

      2. With the calcs I did using the helix design calulator my piston sat 0.015mm below the deck where as most info I found said it should be more like 0.05 above the deck?

[datzenmike]

There were two pistons used in the Z22 motor.

 

All 720 truck Z22(S) and early 07-12 '81 200sx with Z22E used the same piston with a pin height of 35.5mm and a dish of 9.32cc.

 

From Jan '82 on the 200sx Z22E used a 32.1mm pin height and an undetermined dish size.

 

This will also mean there are two different rod lengths to go with them.

[Zeusimo]

Datzenmike

Z22 Cranks Are Half Counterweighted

You Mean L20B And Z20 Cranks Are The Same

 

I Have Also Looked Into Milling KA Pistons

I Havn't Measured How Thick It Is But Cutting Almost 2mm Sounds Like Alot

[GreaseMonky]

there is alot of options for pistons, from what i can tell. i have a book that gives all kinds of specs on pistons specs, even other manufactures, so if you got a question let me know, i can try and answer it for you

[datzenmike]

Datzenmike

Z22 Cranks Are Half Counterweighted

.

You Mean L20B And Z20 Cranks Are The Same

.

Absolutely I did mean Z20E, I had two Z20E and an L20B cranks and they are the same.

.

I Have Also Looked Into Milling KA Pistons

I Havn't Measured How Thick It Is But Cutting Almost 2mm Sounds Like Alot

.

As the KA24E pistons have a very small 2.8cc dish... 2mm removed will barely if at all remove the ridge around the outside.

 

 

 

 

Why mill them? Used with L20B rods and Z22 crank they are 1.5mm short of the top of the deck anyway.

[Zeusimo]

What Ur Saying Is Right But The Point Of This Motor

Is For It To Scream... You Simply Can't Use Z22 Crank

 

KA24e Pistons Pop Out

Z22 Block +2mm

L20b Crank

152.5mm Rods

 

Also Compression Will Be Almost 12:1

[RAT510]

looking on the acl website and it seems they list two pistons

 

Z22 (1982-87 Bluebird, cabstar, king cab, series 720, skyline, 200sx) pin height 31.9

Z22S (1982-87 Cabstar, series 720)  pin height 35.5

 

so is there three z22 pistons available? 32.1 pin height?

 

by my calcs the 31.9 z22 piston plus

L20B block and crank 

Z20E 152.5 rods

1.2mm head gasket

A87 head

 

makes 0.05mm above deck and around 9.8:1 cr

 

forgot to mention all my calcs are using a 9.32 cc dish for the piston as thats all i can find

[Zeusimo]

32.1mm Should Be Z22e Pistons

Z22s Pistons Are 35.5mm?

[datzenmike]

What Ur Saying Is Right But The Point Of This Motor

Is For It To Scream... You Simply Can't Use Z22 Crank

 

KA24e Pistons Pop Out

Z22 Block +2mm

L20b Crank

152.5mm Rods

 

Also Compression Will Be Almost 12:1

.

 

Ah this topic wanders so much I was thinking 2.3

 

Yes 152.5mm rods, 43mm pin height KA pistons and 86mm stroke/2= 43mm for 229.5 or 2.05mm above the deck. Yes you can simply mill 2mm off the top outer edge of the KA pistons. Actually JG recommends no more than .3mm above the deck, so you could just mill 1.75mm off the tops.

 

The above and assuming 2mm milled to get a zero deck height and no dish left, with an open chamber L head= 11.15 compression.

.

32.1mm Should Be Z22e Pistons

Z22s Pistons Are 35.5mm?

.

 

 

There were two pistons used in the Z22 motor.

 

All 720 truck Z22(S) and early 07-12 '81 200sx with Z22E used the same piston with a pin height of 35.5mm and a dish of 9.32cc.

 

From Jan '82 on the 200sx Z22E used a 32.1mm pin height and an undetermined dish size.

 

This will also mean there are two different rod lengths to go with them.

[Zeusimo]

The Z20e Pistons I Pulled Off To Get My Rods Were Flattops With 4 Valve Reilefs

[datzenmike]

Yes, I had two sets once. Pistons and rods fit an L20B perfectly.

[hang_510]

I have both an L20 and a Z22 block sitting around. After having extended conversations with Troy Ermish, who builds anything from a rave L16 to a 2.3 bored Z22 I've decided to run the L20 block with a Z22 crank and a worked over U67 open chamber head.

 

. I'm really shooting for a good, torquey street motor that will go 100,000+ miles with out catastrophically failing. 

why not use the Z22 block if you plan on using the Z22 crank?

 

Is For It To Scream... You Simply Can't Use Z22 Crank

 

Z22 Block +2mm

L20b Crank

152.5mm Rods

if i hadnt already bought pistons, this is what i would have done.

or found a good L20 block.

 

 

im around 20,000mi on mine and its screamed for ~15,000 of em

[akawes]

Thoughts on possible redline for the set up?

[datsunaholic]

That totally depends on how well it is balanced.  Z22 cranks are not optimally balanced to begin with.  That's why LZ hybrids have vibration issues- it's not the block, it's the crank and rod combos that do it.  Slap it togther with stock parts, with no balancing done, and you're lowering the redline significantly.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Thoughts on possible redline for the set up?

There is a direct correlation between High RPM and $$$. A good stock-ish motor with a DGV is only good to about 5500-6000, a medium size street cam, good valve springs, a DGV and no port work, about 6500. A nicely built head with porting, a big cam, big valves and dual 44's, about 7200-7500.

 

These are rough numbers, and keep in mind, a nicely built head built to run at 7200 RPM will cost around $1500-$2000 and will need constant maintainance. Valves wear, rockers wear, springs break and wear out at this high RPM so my advice...install a mild cam and save lots of money.

[K_trip]

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