L20B Manifold... studs or bolts?

[DatsunHealey]

An Introduction:

 

I have a 1965 Austin Healey Sprite powered by an L20B with a 5 speed and a 610 or 710 rear end, all installed by a previous owner. The original engine would have been a 1.1 litre engine with a 4 speed, so this should be a red rocket when it is running again. I am located 20 miles due south of the U.S border at Detroit... in Canada!  Go figure. This is my first post although I have been reading this site  since June.

 

The u67 head is badly warped... (30 thou) but i have managed to buy an L16 with a 210 head which is dead flat. Thanks to this forum I knew the 210 would work on the L20b with compression of 9.2 to 1.  I'm not a tuner or a racer so it should work ok.

 

My Question:

 

Both heads had differing combinations of bolts and studs holding on the manifolds. The 210 had 4 different sizes of nuts and bolt heads ranging from 10mm to 15mm!  I've seen kits of all studs (11) for replacement.  I must replace all of the stud/bolts with new because they are in poor shape. Any reason not to use all studs?  I'll be installing the manifolds on the bench before reinstalling the head.

 

[Stupid_fast]

On my L20b, the two outer and center exhaust mounts are studs, everything else uses bolts.

 

I'm pretty sure this is how its hooked up from the factory.

 

If you use studs on the inner exhaust mounts it may be impossible to get the nuts in there, as its a very tight fit with a header. 

[wayno]

Use studs where ever you can, you can get a nut tighter on a stud without pulling the aluminum threads out.

Turning bolts into aluminum threads and trying to get them tight is tough, it's so easy to strip the threads out, when using a stud, you can bottom out the stud using all the threads, that is not possible with a bolt.

[DanielC]

Depending on exactly what manifolds you use with the head, studs may make it difficult.

On a stock L-16, there are three studs, one in the middle, and one on each end of the exhaust manifold.

 

To put the manifolds on the engine, here are the basic steps.  I am omitting details like cleaning.

Put three studs in that hold the exhaust manifold.

Put the gasket on, hanging it on the studs.

Put the exhaust manifold on, put nuts on the three studs, finger tight.

Put the four bottom bolts that clamp both the exhaust and intake manifolds.  Just start these bolts, with the thick clamp washers.

Pull the thick washers away from the head.   You can use studs here, if you want.

The stock Nissan gasket has a sticky glue on it. 

While holding the intake manifold away from the sticky gasket, and tipped slightly away from the head at the top, slide it on top of the four lower manifold bolts.  When the manifold is lowered into position, then hold it against the gasket, and head.  You can now put in one of the top four intake manifold bolts.  The intake manifold has to slide into position past these bolts.  If you really wanted studs here, now is the onlt time you could install them.

[Silky_Johnson]

My build includes an A87 head, early L16 cast-iron header (manifold), and a Mikuni side draft intake manifold.  I used all studs and no bolts in fastening the manifolds to the head.  It depends on clearance and accessibility.  Just mock it up to see if studs would work.

[DatsunHealey]

Thanks everyone. I am going to go with studs and give it a try.  I have a choice of intakes; 210 no smog or U67 egr etc. No choice on the exhaust since the U67 is custom to fit in the Healey.

 

Anyone have input on using the no smog 210 intake with the l20b.? The carb is a rebuilt DCH340 and I would put that back on. The smog U67 has a bunch of hoses and wires, half of which are disconected or plugged anyway. No idea if the EGR valves works.

[wayno]

I hope I have this correct, the 210 head has very small intake ports, you will likely have to use that intake manifold that came on the L16, the reason is that the U67 head has big intake ports, and so did the intake manifold, you do not want to use the big port intake manifold on the small port head unless your port the head to match the intake manifold, which I am not sure if it can be done.

I suppose it will likely work, but I would never use a 210 head again, as I have had them internally crack inside and pump oil into the water jacket(radiator), I would look for something else, but if you are going to use this head, I would definitely have the oil jacket of the head pressure checked before installing.

[Laecaon]

210 head has a wimpy cam, and small valves. Not very good breathing. U67 is biggest valves of the normal heads and has the good cam. Cams should be swappable.

 

you should be able to strip all the egr stuff.

[DatsunHealey]

I had not thought of the port sizes so it definitly means I'll go with the 210 intake. The 210 head means I will have coolant flow into the intake, so i will need to reconnect the return.

 

I know there is a performance hit to using the 210 head but in central Canada there are few spare parts floating around and shipping costs are murder.  I tried to source a rebuilt u67 on the web. No luck.  I spoke with rebuilders in NC. and TX... no cores available. The summers are short here, so the goal is to get it running and enjoy a couple of hundred miles with the top down this summer.  Here are a couple of threads on the topic:

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/45244-l16-head-on-l20/

 

 http://community.ratsun.net/topic/3633-l16-head-on-l20b/

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I use studs on all the exhaust manifold holes, but for the four top intake manifold holes I use bolts from 280zx CV joints. They have a nice shoulder to them that helps align the manifold and they also have a torx drive in the middle of the 12 mm head. They came in other applications too, but the 280zx is where I foud them.

 

I'll put up a pic later today.

[Silky_Johnson]

If you're dead set on using the 210 head, at least swap out the cam from the U67.  As said above, 210 cams are no good.

[wayno]

I had not thought of the port sizes so it definitly means I'll go with the 210 intake. The 210 head means I will have coolant flow into the intake, so i will need to reconnect the return.

 

I know there is a performance hit to using the 210 head but in central Canada there are few spare parts floating around and shipping costs are murder.  I tried to source a rebuilt u67 on the web. No luck.  I spoke with rebuilders in NC. and TX... no cores available. The summers are short here, so the goal is to get it running and enjoy a couple of hundred miles with the top down this summer.  Here are a couple of threads on the topic:

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/45244-l16-head-on-l20/

 

 http://community.ratsun.net/topic/3633-l16-head-on-l20b/

 

I see U67 heads all the time in the wrecking yards around here, you were looking in the wrong part of the country, west coast is where you need to look, specifically the pacific NW, they don't have a lot of datsuns on the east coast, or in the gulf region areas.

There are other heads you can use also, A87 also has an open chamber version, but one would need to find a large valve head, but that really doesn't matter either, as the small valve version is better than a 210 version head.

[DatsunHealey]

Shipping anything 5000 kilimeters is going to blow the budget. Add in customs clearance, Federal and Provincial tax and fuel surcharges. (In Canada fuel price is low right now, only about $5 per gallon. It had been about 5.40 before Christmas. With all that, the 210 on my workbench starts looking pretty good to me.

 

I'll put it on and keep an eye out for a U67 head locally, if I find it under-powered. I'm trying to avoid the finacial tipping point where it becomes worthwhile  reinstalling an original dual carb Austin engine.

 

I'm looking forward to getting it on the road with some Datsun power under the hood.  I'll post an update when I know more.

[bananahamuck]

The 210 head and 210 manifold will work just fine ..if you dont want to run coolant line back to engine, you could cap off nipple at intake ,, i have run many this way and they work just fine..

 

If you could get a stock cam outta a L20b it might give you a little more power but the 210 has tiny valves ,,,but.,,,, the car (( we have never got pictures of BTW :sneaky: ))  is about the size of a small go-kart so power really shouldn`t be a problem anyways. In fact it will probably be fast as a scared cat... :D

 

 

(edit) example: My brother has a 70 4door 510 L1600 with stock 210 head stock 210 cam,,,,a few of us caravaned  to car show at least 100 miles from here last summer and we all did 70-75 most of the way there ,,, he had absolutely no problem keeping up what so ever..

[Silky_Johnson]

(( we have never got pictures of BTW :sneaky: )) <<<<<<<< This.

[DatsunHealey]

Sorry, but the avatar picture is all I have at this point. Its the Kijiji listing picture and shows it in its barn-find condition. It had not run in 6 years.

[banzai510(hainz)]

go to the 510 realm and there is a Jason Wong in Vancouver maybe he can help you out. He has tons of parts and nice guy