70 510 wagon engine swap HELP?

[510chamber]

stock 1.6/ 3 spd auto to a L20 with a 5 speed behind it

Any obsticles i may run into?

first datsun swap for me.

I know im going to need these items anyone see anything i might be missing?

 

Pedals (already have the proper assembly)

Master and slave cylinder

hard lines and a flex line

 

 

 

appreciate the help guys.

[crackerjack69]

Really depends on what 5spd you're droppin in. If you haven't tried the search function yet, give that a shot. Lots of pertinent info in the other threads. Good luck!

[510chamber]

Good point, Thanks bud... problem is I can't find out what the 5spd is.

The motor and trans im dropping in my wagon came out of a 72 4dr 510

 

Thanks again boss

[Draker]

Picture = 1000 words.

 

Ratsun <-------> Tranny experts

[crackerjack69]

Yeah, no telling who put what in the donor. If I was on my pc, I'd look up a thread and put it on a spoon for ya :P lolz. Oh well, Mike's bound to clear this up soon. Do like Draker sez, post a pic. Should help a lot.

[510chamber]

will do asap. gotta go grab it sometime this weekend , bring it back to the garage and start prep. ill throw a pic up by sunday for ya Draker, thanks again guys

[Rollover_Red]

dont forget to shorten the driveshaft...? thats all ive got.

[datzenmike]

Good point, Thanks bud... problem is I can't find out what the 5spd is.

The motor and trans im dropping in my wagon came out of a 72 4dr 510

 

Thanks again boss

 

If the motor and transmission was working properly then there is no need to worry about clutch/pressure plate/release bearing collar compatibility and mixing and matching odd parts. If working before it will work in yours.

 

Do you have the L20B and tranny out where you can look at it? If so measure the transmission length.

 

If 26" it's very likely a dogleg from a 200sx and you will not need to shorten the driveshaft. If possible, get the rear crossmember with the transmission as it must have been modified to fit this 5 speed and will save you doing it. Dogleg FS5W63A.... smooth case without ribs. All switches are in the tailstock. Speedo cable goes into the driver's side.

 

 

If it is 31.5" its from a 620, 280z or zx or a Maxima. Again, if you can, get the rear crossmember with the transmission as it must have been modified to fit this 5 speed and will save you doing it. If possible, get the driveshaft too as it will have been shortened for this longer transmission. FS5W71B.... ribs on case, reverse light switch in front case half, speedo on pass side

[510chamber]

Actually was able to find that the 5spd came out of a 78 or so Zcar. I do however still need a set of pedals, which have proven hard to find. Anyone have a set i could take off your hands?

Got it all pretty much figured out, This is my 1st 510 just wanted to see if there were any major things i was going to run into. Ill keep posting pictures as the project comes along. its a 2 owner wagon considerably good condition from cali. Love this damn thing

 

also i do have a 5spd dogleg but im not sure of its working condition. anyone looking for one?

[LenRobertson]

When you go to hang your pedals, one of the bolts the pedal arms pivot on (I'm almost certain it is the one going through the brake pedal arm) is left-hand thread, so you turn it clockwise to loosen. You can try this on your existing brake pedal arm bolt. Put a wrench on the bolt, and if I'm thinking about this correctly, you pull the wrench toward the rear of the car to loosen.

 

Install the clutch hard line while the engine is out of the bay. Easier to do it that way. Don't do what I did - get in a hurry to get the engine in and leave the hard line till "later". "Later" always comes and must be dealt with.

 

Crossmember was a hassle for me, so as datzenmike says, if you can get the crossmember from the donor 510 it will save you a bunch of time and trouble.

 

If you are using the Z 5-speed you will need to have the driveline shortened. You might as well be looking for a shop in you area to do this. Probably cost $125 or so with new U-joints, maybe more. If you use the dogleg you can use your existing driveshaft, but if the dogleg is iffy, this may be more trouble than having your shaft shortened.

 

It is probably worth getting new master and slave cylinders, unless the tranny comes with really nice ones. I tried getting by with used cylinders and had to replace both immediately.

 

Two wires to the neutral safety switch down on the side of the auto tranny will need to be connected together, or the ignition circuit will be dead.

 

Len

[Laecaon]

Also on the side of wiring. There is a relay on your car on the passenger inner fender near the battery. There are 2 red with black stripe wires. Those will need to be plugged into the manual tranny reverse switch, so that your reverse lights work.

[510chamber]

Figured id have to shave the driveshaft, its good to know people that can do it for a case of beers. The infos helpful Len preciate it

[LenRobertson]

Laecaon - Thanks. That may help my not-quite-finished swap. Pretty sure I don't have reverse lights yet.

 

510chamber - Your 1600 radiator may not be enough to cool the L20b. I'm going to try the stock radiator on my swap, but it will probably work as well as the used clutch cylinders did. I expect to be upgrading about next June. You might quiz the guy you got the engine and tranny from and see what he was using. You might even buy his radiator if it is something bigger that original.

 

Guys that work for beer are great to know. Just get them to do the work before they get into too much of the beer!

 

Len

[LenRobertson]

Just a few more thoughts, and then I'll go to bed and quit thinking (till tomorrow). Save your 1600 oil pan, oil pickup, and motor mounts. Probably the L20b has the right ones if it has been in a 510, but someone else upgrading to an L20b can use them. Or you may want to do another 510/L20b yourself.

 

The L20b block is 3/4" taller than the 1600 block, so it will raise your exhaust manifold. Depending on what mods are done to the tranny X-member, the member where the exhaust pipe goes under it may be lower. So you may need to cut a section of the header pipe coming down from the exhaust manifold and put a short piece in to lengthen it. Maybe you are due for a new, larger diameter exhaust system, but still may want to hook up the existing system to get the car going.

 

If the L20b has an electronic distributor instead of points, you will need to do a minor rewire to the coil.

 

If you have thoughts of changing from the stock externally regulated alternator to a bigger, IR alt., it will be easier before you get the new bottom radiator hose installed. My old alternator lasted about as long as my clutch cylinders, and not so easy to change when the hoses are in place! All this stuff is fresh in my mind.

 

None of this is at all hard; just a whole lot of little detail stuff. Better for you know ahead of time so you can plan for everything.

 

And yeah, it does seem to be worth it. I've only driven my 510 a little bit with the L20b and dogleg, but it seems to be 1000 times more fun than the 1600/auto which was a lot of fun! I'm a really sedate driver, but I can see potential for a ticket of two. Oh, that's right, I still need to hook up the speedo cable.

 

Len

[510chamber]

anyone know if the head from my L16 will bolt up to the L20b? just need it to last a little while.. the head on the L20b is cracked. it looks like it will but just want to see if im wasting my time or not

[banzai510(hainz)]

yes the L16 will work not ideal as it has small ports and valves but will work

[510chamber]

Cool preciate it, Banzai.. any suggestions as to a head that i could throw on it down the road? Im not going for crazy performance obviously but i would like a little power under my foot

[jrock4224]

Picture = 1000 words.

 

Ratsun <-------> Tranny experts

 

draker<-------> chicks with dicks expert

[LenRobertson]

anyone know if the head from my L16 will bolt up to the L20b? just need it to last a little while.. the head on the L20b is cracked. it looks like it will but just want to see if im wasting my time or not

I'm curious how certain you are the head is actually cracked? Has it been crack tested by a machine shop, or did the former owner think it was a cracked head because it was using water and he assumed a crack? With Datsuns, a bad head gasket can happen now and then. Even a warped head from overheating the engine may be fixable by milling the head flat. You want be sure the head is really bad before you spend time and money looking for a different one.

 

Len

[datzenmike]

If you are using the Z 5-speed you will need to have the driveline shortened. You might as well be looking for a shop in you area to do this. Probably cost $125 or so with new U-joints, maybe more.

 

Figured id have to shave the driveshaft, its good to know people that can do it for a case of beers. The infos helpful Len preciate it

 

Well there actually is a way around this. If you can find a sedan driveshaft it is within 3/4" of the ideal shortened goon driveshaft when using a long 71B 5 speed.

 

 

 

anyone know if the head from my L16 will bolt up to the L20b? just need it to last a little while.. the head on the L20b is cracked. it looks like it will but just want to see if im wasting my time or not

 

All L4 heads will bolt to all L 4 series motors. Exhaust port shape, intake water passages and compression ratios may not match. A stock L16 210 head on an L20B will raise the compression to 9.237 and will likely ping. Run good at low revs and run out of steam earlier.

[510chamber]

i'm not entirely sure that the head is cracked, just dont have the funds to have it checked.. or milling it unfortunately. The wagons my daily as well so i cant make a huge project out of it just yet. Not the greatest way to do a swap ( being rushed and all) but i dont have much of a choice. I go through a quart of oil a week with the L16. Its gotta get pulled.

 

 

 

If i run 89 or higher the ping should be minimal correct?

[LenRobertson]

It isn't ideal to have limited time to do a swap, but if that is what you have to do, I would say to get REALLY organized and try as much as possible to understand everything that will need to be done. Anything you can do ahead of time while the goon is running will be something you don't need to do when it is time for the swap. For instance, the pedals, clutch slave cylinder, and hard line can all be installed while the car is still running. The hard line is easier with the engine out, but can be done with the 1600 still in there. You could find the neutral safety switch on the auto and figure out which wires need to be connected so your ignition still works. Little detail things like this are what take so much time on a swap. Look at your radiator and heater hoses ahead of time and decide if you want to try to keep using them. Better to replace them, but if you are short of money and they don't look too bad, you can take a chance. Maybe find out if a local parts store has the radiator hoses in stock, if you tear one getting it off.

 

If you can find the sedan driveshaft datzenmike mentioned, that will save time shortening your old shaft. Maybe pull the drain plug on the dogleg you have and see if there are bits of metal on the magnetic plug. Might give an indication if that tranny is usable. Using the dogleg would eliminate shortening the driveshaft. The Z tranny could be swapped in later. Drawback is the hole in the tunnel will be in a different place, so you will end up having to patch the hole cut for the dogleg.

 

I should know this, but can't remember if the goon tranny X-member is the same as a sedan. If you are getting a modified X-member that bolts right in, that is a huge time saver. But if it doesn't quite fit, more time spent.

 

Any reliable history on the L20b you are getting? If the previous owner is trustworthy and said the engine was using water and gradually getting worse, odds favor it just being a bad head gasket. If he admits he ran it low on water and got it really hot, then the head is probably warped and needs to be milled. I'm saying you may be able to run the L20b head with a new gasket, but it is a bit chancy if you don't know the true story on the engine.

 

Are you going to be doing this in a shop with welder and some help? I'm thinking of lengthening the exhaust pipe if it needs it. I sawed mine and used a coupler piece with exhaust clamps since I wasn't where it could be welded. But the coupler was a little to small i.d., so I used an exhaust pipe expander to enlarge it.

 

Probably the best thing you can do is read the back posts here on Ratsun on swapping in an L20. It will give you are better understanding of everything you need to do. I hope I'm not sounding too negative here, but it is better if you know as much as possible before tearing your car apart.

 

Here is a page giving info on cylinder heads, if you run across a different head and want to understand what it is: http://www.davidcmurphy.com/olddat/html/tech/head_ID_2.htm You should make sure the head on your 1600 is the stock one with a 210 casting number. It is possible yours has been changed to a different one sometime in the life of the car, and then the CR may not be a problem.

 

Len

[datzenmike]

anyone know if the head from my L16 will bolt up to the L20b? just need it to last a little while.. the head on the L20b is cracked. it looks like it will but just want to see if im wasting my time or not

 

No way anyone can say this with certainty without removing it and looking. More likely the gasket has failed but this is a case of which came first the chicken or the egg? Motor overheated, head warps, gasket blew.... or gasket blew, motor (may have) overheated, head (may have) warped. Before swapping anything. Pull the L20B head off and take a look. BE SURE TO FIND OUT HOW TO BLOCK THE TIMING CHAIN TENSIONER SO IT DOES NOT FALL OUT It's easy takes 5 seconds to do saves half a days work and some gaskets.

 

Clean the head surface and look for mystery crack (doubt it's there) use a metal straight edge across the diagonal length of the head in a big X measuring with a feeler gauge at the widest part of the gap, if any. Maximum warp is 0.004" or 0.1mm but you could probably get by with slightly more as a new gasket will crush and fill it in.

 

While head is off inspect the valve faces and seats for damage. Look at all combustion chambers. If valves are clean and tan/white-ish you're good. If oily wet and black suspect bad rings Hard to inspect #1 and #4 cylinder with the chain blocked but you can look at #2 and #3. Scoring or dark streaks are bad. Cylinder should be shiny like a mirror and may have slight cross hatching marks visible and have a wear ridge about 1/4" from the tops.

 

With head on, drop oil pan and check all rod bearings. If any doubt replace now, and use torque wrench. Pull all main bearing caps and inspect. If needed they can easily be replaced with crank in. New rear oil seal! New pan gasket.

[510chamber]

You guys are awesome, Im going to start the tear down of the L20 tomorrow morning and see how she fairs.  Len thanks for the tip as far as starting what can be done while ive got the goon on the road.

Probably still yet another few weeks out before i can swing the whole swap. but just gives me more time to prep everything.

 

As far as the dog leg goes, anything else i should check into to see if it will be usable? Would prefer to use that anyway AND it would be awesome to avoid shaving the drive shaft.  time and money saved is what im going for for this swap. I have a feeling the L16 is on its way out... Later down the road after I get the goon cosmetically where i want it, I'll worry about putting some pep in her step.

 

King Rat i know the L20 is in running condition, it was a daily for awhile, but my concern is getting it started. I know for a fact it's been sitting for a year or so.

 

Again thanks guy, help is deffinately appreciated.

[LenRobertson]

I suspect there is a good chance the L20b just needs a head gasket, although it sure would be nice to know if it was ever run low on water and got really hot. Follow datzenmike's advice on everything he posted. I'm always guilty myself of cutting corners to save time thinking I'll redo it later. But some things like checking the bearings are so much quicker and easier to do with the engine already out. Knowing the bearings are good will make it that much more fun to drive it hard when it is back running.

 

I think in the Drivetrain category here on Ratsun is a thread on overhauling a dogleg (maybe in the How-To category). I've never done it, but you may be able to take the bellhousing/front cover off the tranny to get a look inside. However if no pieces come out of the drain hole when you drop the oil, you probably should just take a chance on it being good. Even if it turns out to have  worn synchros or something, you can run the dogleg till you have time and money to put the Z box in. If you do run the dogleg, you probably need to swap the throw-out bearing and collar the bearing is mounted on from the Z tranny to the dogleg. Or make sure the sleeves are exactly the same length. The rule is the TO sleeve must be matched to the clutch cover height (not the tranny). If the clutch you are using was running with the Z tranny, that is the sleeve you want to use. If it is unclear what I mean, please let me know and I'll try to explain it better. If you get the wrong length TO sleeve in there, you will have to pull the engine or tranny and change it to the right length.

 

There is a thread somewhere on here about the correct oil to use in a Datsun tranny to protect the synchros. I got mine from NAPA. It is over $30 a gallon, but that is enough to fill 2 transmissions. I can get the NAPA part number off the jug. It is interesting to read the whole oil thread to find out the "why" of this. I'll look for the thread.

 

Len