Transmission question 4 or 5 spd?

[ISPKI]

Hey guys, first post here.

 

I have been trying to pick up a datsun 240/260/280z for a few years now. I have looked at many but I finally got one home last week. It is a 1977 280z, but, it has an automatic trans. Flame me if you want, but I want to swap it out for a manual transmission. I was wondering which years had 4 spds and which had 5 spds. Also - which models are interchangeable. For instance - does the 5 spd out of a early 80s 280zx bolt up to the 280z?

 

My friend mentioned that the 4 spd transmissions may be more durable than the 5 spds as well, as has been his experience. is this true?

 

I searched for a similar topic but could find any in the few pages that came up.

[Npdavies.]

Flame me if you want, but I want to swap it out for a manual transmission.

 

Why would anyone flame you for that?

 

78 is the first year the 5-speed was available. The ZX tranny bolts up since it's for an L28, and your 280z has an L28. However, I may be wrong, but I think you need a different tranny mount for the 5-speed.

 

Also, search using Google not the search here on Ratsun. Be sure to add "ratsun" into your Google search.

[Dawa]

heres a start, read up: http://forums.nicoclub.com/5-speed-conversion-questions-t375391.html

[datsunaholic]

Actually, 77 was the first year the 5-speed was a factory option. The 280Z had a 4-speed as standard ALL years (75-78), the 5-speed was optional 77-78. The 280ZX also had a option 4 or 5 speed in '79, but I believe the 5-speed became standard in '80.

[San Maru]

I left the 4 speed in my 260z, its fine. I also have an 80 zx with a 5 speed. 83 zxt with a t5. The transmissions all interchange. If you are racing you want to avoid the early 5 speeds up to 79. The gap between 2nd and 3rd drops you right out of the powerband. Normal driving it wont matter so much. 80-83 5 speeds are the good ones. The T5 is junk, dont even worry about that one. You have to use a different driveshaft length with it. If you do go with the 5 speed, make sure your differential gearing is a good match. A 280z with an auto transmission has a 3.545 R180. The 1980 Deluxe had a 5 speed and the same differential, R180 3.545. Since it was a Nissan pairing, you will be good. People with a 4 speed will want to change out the 3.364 when going to the 5 speed. The dash is going to have to come out to change the pedals from what Ive heard. Never done that myself. If the transmission is fine I would leave it, but its your car.

[Tice]

I don't want to thread steal, but I would like to know what ya'll would think of my plans to swap my trans. I Have a 76 280Z with a stock 4 speed. I'd liek that 5th gear because I feel like I run 4th out too much. I want to say I have the Longnose R200 in my car, but am not sure (And can't check it for another 5 monthes)

In any case, I already have a 5 speed from another 280Z (Forget what year the guys car was, but I want to find out... Are there ID plates of any sort I can have a look at on the trans?). From what San Maru is saying (Or what I gathered anyways) Will i need new rear gears as well? TIA

[Mr.Dean_Yates]

i need a 5 speed to finish off my drift z project lol...

 

standard is the way to go if you want something more efficient and if you want to truly enjoy your z

 

autos are for soccer moms and people who are unable to drive standard for various reasons (like an amputee)

 

then you have the people who just shouldnt drive in general haha

[bananahamuck]

Tice ,, short answer no your rear gears will be fine ,,,if it`s to doggy in 5th shift back to 4th..

 

 

link to check out about 5speeds

 

http://www.geocities...oker/ratio.html

 

 

and a discusstion about swapping

 

http://www.classiczc...hread30668.html

[Tice]

Cool, thanks Banana

[San Maru]

That geocites link is not completely accurate on the 280zx info. 79-81 you had 2 trim level options, Grand luxury and Deluxe. In a standard 5 speed transmission GL you got a R200 3.90 rear end. In a standard 5 speed transmission Deluxe you got a R180 3.545 rear end. I have a GL and Deluxe 1980 both 5 speeds and they match Nissans rear end specs. One has the R200, the other a R180. The problem with going outside of Nissan literature is that mistakes are made. Those mistakes get copied and pasted over and over. After a while the mistake becomes thought of as fact in many peoples minds. This isnt the only bad information out there either. So whenever possible, go with the manufactures information and also verify things yourself. The more you know in facts, the more power you have to make a success.

[datzenmike]

heres a start, read up: http://forums.nicocl...ns-t375391.html

 

That is full of shit misinformation.

[I'm BLUE]

This link is not entirely accurate as well , but much more so than last by far !!! lol ---> http://www.zhome.com...GearRatios.html

 

4spd's work excellent for 3.36 and 3.54 gearing.

4spd's last just as long as 5spd's.

zcars are alive around-ish 3,000 rpm's and above in stock form. ( at least mine are lol ).

4spd's are the same length as the Nissan 5spd's ( I say Nissan since there is a Borg Warner 5spd in the 280zxt )

4spd's can be had for $40-$60. 5spds are typically $100-$300

5spd's will def help with gas-mileage ,,, and more importantly makeup for the higher rpm's that accompany a lower gear 3.70 or 3.90 differential.

But if you're not a conservative driver = gas mileage will not mean shit in an s30 lol. ( long distance is exception )

 

70-79 4spd's all interchange all day long between 70-83 s30/s130's

77-83 NISSAN 5spd's all interchange all day long between 70-83 s30/s130's ( remember the 280zx turbo 5spd is a Borg Warner and not a Nissan trans ! )

Speedo hookup angles and fill plug locations vary. Shifter style on early 240z 4spd's are def different !

Later zx 5spd's have an entirely different shifter handle than earilier predecessor's ,,, in some cases for 240z's the front edge of the sheet metal tunnel needs to be "clearanced". I am not sure if this is an issue for 280z's !?. Later zx shifter handles have superior bushing style imho.

If you do end up clearancing = just remember your brake lines are located all along the top right edge of the trans tunnel ... right next to the right hand edge of the trans shifter cutout ( upper edge ).

 

I enjoy both. I use 70-76 4spd's for 3.36 and 3.54 gear rear diff's. Tires and powerband are greatly influenced as well lol.

I also use the later zx 5spd for 3.54/3.70/3.90 diff ( espeically 3.90 lol )

The eariler 5spd's work just ok. There is a main-shaft nut on the back end of the trans that tends to come loose. These are built like a 4spd that has a crammed 5th gear added on after the fact from what I understand ? lol ( I could be wrong on that one ) . I have read about the shaft nut coming loose on hybridz.org

 

You will have to ad an Input Shaft bushing into the back of the crank when you swap to a manual trans. It is critical you do.

I recommend using a 280zx 2+2 or 280zxt 240mm flywheel if you can get your hands on one as it has more gripping force.

Grab the corresponding clutch disc/pressure plate. You can also buy a clutch kit ( disc/pressureplate/throwout bearing/input shaft bushing/alignment tool ) off Rockauto.com

 

You will need the correct Clutch Collar ( it's a height/depth issue ) with a throwout bearing mounted on it.

You will need the correct Clutch fork throwout arm.

No shame in a used clutch ,,, usually just mystery lol.

^^^ All of these items above can easily be grabbed off a junkyard car or partout (in which you knew the car WAS working lol and not dinked with ) to save time and money if you don't mind used parts.

 

I am not sure if you will need to swap drivelines.

Remember that not all R200 rear flanges are the same ,,, measure your's if you are swapping a driveline from one to another ( can't remember off top of head other than 1975 280z was 1 year only type flange deal ,,, and 2? other variations according to "Jags That Run" )

 

I am also not sure if you have a different speedo cable hookup than a manual transmission.

I haven't worked on an auto s30 before.

 

Same to say with transmission crossmember.

 

Do yourself a favor.

When your swap to manual transmission

Purchase a new Clutch slave cylinder and clutch master cylinder ... OR ... have a good re-buildable pair ready to rebuild and go !

Nothing worse than being on the side of the road and puking clutch hydro's.

Use anti-seize compound on Slave Cylinder housing bolts.

 

 

Grabbing a manual trans pedal set might be faster than trying to modify a current existing auto trans pedal set.

 

 

 

After all my babbling ^^^ In short ,,, I wouldn't hesistate to put in a 4spd with your current 3.54 diff ,,,if budget issue as it paves the road for a future 5spd swap.

Late zx 5spd's have a DEEP 1st gear that some people do not enjoy but combine it with the 3.90 R200 = funner ! lol.

 

I enjoy the earlier 5spds with the 1st and 5th lower ratio's in my L24 with the shorter stroke.

It is more of a personal preference type deal.

[datzenmike]

The earliest 4 speeds up through '74 had wider ratios for use with smaller L24 and L26 motors with 3.364 diff ...

 

3.592

2.246

1.415

1.000

 

4 speeds from '75 on and 5 speeds from '77 on and the first year 280zx were for use with the larger torque L28 motor with 3.545...

 

3.321

2.077

1.308

1.000

0.864 on the 5 speeds.

[ISPKI]

There is a dealer near my parent's house who has a 1982 (I think) 280zx. It has been rotting away for years on his lot but it has a 5spd and only 80k miles on it. I am going to see if he will part the car out as it is worth way more in parts than whole. It has gaping rust holes in the body and a tree fell on the roof and crushed it and the back of the car somewhat.

[I'm BLUE]

Thankyou datzenmike !

 

That 1982 280zx ... sounds like an excellent candidate for parts !

 

IF you can get the whole car cheap ,, might be a really good idea ,,, but I don't know if this fits your situation.

 

:cool:

[San Maru]

According to the odometer my 82 zx has 20,000 miles on it. Missing the first digit, a lot of people think they have found an unused car. Ive seen 240,000 mile looking cars at used car lots being sold for retarded prices as a 40,000 mile car. On a side note, I thought the 260z 4 speed had a first gear ratio that was unique... Lol!