My l16 draw through turbo setup....having issues, HELP

[spudly13]

I read through all the posts of that first setup, man he put a lot of time and work into it! Looks like it turned out sweet though, my 510s sorta my daily, and for whatever reason i decided to boost it... werid right?

 

i like the idea of running a pipe in front of the radiator, i thought about just putting a filter up there to but im worried about water and the filter getting super dirty.

 

Now an air conditioner, theres an idea!

 

I got it running... and it will i guess you could say run... but it sputters along and wont rev up and pops and back fires... so im back to my timing that ive checked a million times! Going to pull the valve cover and see if its 180 out and i happened to put the wires on wrong, not likely but we'll see.

 

Ill post pics but i rigged up dual carbs becasue i started to worry about it meybe being lean and not working, i also temporaily put in an electric fuel pump, being a senior in highschool leaves me with so much time on my hands!

[spudly13]

Oh and another question, from what i understand since its boosted and turbos dont like back pressure, my down pipe that goes to my floor not being connected to my axle back (yet, ive been more interested in getting it running), shouldnt be a problem?

 

Also lastnight when i was running it (single carb still) there was frost on my adapter to the turbo and the new charge pipe and intake box, literally white frost, from what you guys have said if anyting this is good becasue its staying cool, but is that frost also on the inside? which would turn to water and go into my motor?

 

 

[datzenmike]

Firing order is 1342

 

Frost on the inside is water vapor in the air that is there already and going through the motor. Some high compression motors and some turbo applications use water injection to cool the combustion chamber and reduce detonation. Basically a windshield washer pump spraying directly into the turbo. No harm done.

 

As I said earlier, warming the air might be an advantage in the cold and damp of winter but there is a tipping point somewhere where it's not good.

 

A restrictive exhaust system won't hurt anything but it does reduce turbo efficiency. A 2" pipe is fine no more than 2 1/2" will do, and with a turbo muffler. Not straight through they are too loud. Get something with some baffles and sound absorbing inside.

 

Best to install that wide band a/f meter.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Going to pull the valve cover and see if its 180 out and i happened to put the wires on wrong, not likely but we'll see.

 

Not likely!!!!!!!! If cam was off 180 ,HIT PISTON!!!!!!!!Done

180 on distribut not run

How about off a tooth? on dizzy oil pump spindal

what is the idle timming with a light.

Dont you want Retard under boost. YOu have a vac adv hose hooked up. Maybe not run one.

Im not turbo expert .

 

But under normal condition it should be timmed untill the boost kicks in then I dont know .

[hacked521]

Your charge pipe connecting to the intake manifold really needs to enter at a 90* angle, not having this can feed the fuel unevenly(looks as though it would feed more to the back two in this case). Definitely disconnect your vac advance, this wont help you right now. It sounds like your a tooth or so off timing wise. Make sure theres absolutely no air leaks betweeen your carb and turbo, this will cause a poor signal and poor idling.

 

The nice part of Jason Gray's setup is that he plumbed the charge pipe to the center underneath of the intake manifold, perpendicular to the head, and had an extremely short charge pipe. This helps the throttle response and in turn the turbo response tons!

 

Hopefully this info helps some, and honestly i wouldnt want to run more than 7 psi on a stock head gasket and pistons, ive heard the ring landings cant take it.

[spudly13]

i guess i need to go back to square one with the timing and start all over... As for the vaccum advance my theory was it will help at idle and under boost it will go away? But ill ditch it for the time being.

 

Ill let you guys know what i come up with when i tear it down and re set my timing

[DISLEXICDIME]

get ahold of Ray Stonehocker (lives in Bothell I think)

Hes running a 1 SU turbo system

 

ray is one here send him a pm

http://community.ratsun.net/user/28-fiveoneohray/

[spudly13]

Hey guys, i got in touch with ray, he gave me a lot to think about!

 

Unfortunately i leave for colorado in the morning so ill have to put this off until next week!

 

Thanks for all the help and ideas!

[docbainey]

Almost sounds like your turbo is not sized right for your application. Had an HP book many moons ago on turbo charging and faintly remember them talking about an A/R ratiio? I probably still have the book, it's just lost in 30 years of junk. On a side not I have most of the parts from a turbo kit from the 70's for a L motor. Rebuilt turbo and the connector from the intake to the turbo witch also holds the turbo in place. No exhaust manifold though. The turbo I think was a rajay? from car craft? It's in the garage somewhere.

[spudly13]

Would you be interested in selling what you have?? A few questions if you are, was the set up for suck through? (ray came to the conclusion that my td04 needs a carbon seal) How long ago was it rebuilt? did it work with a stock l16 intake? im not to worried about the manifold, i could fab something up pretty easy.

[docbainey]

Would you be interested in selling what you have?? A few questions if you are, was the set up for suck through? (ray came to the conclusion that my td04 needs a carbon seal) How long ago was it rebuilt? did it work with a stock l16 intake? im not to worried about the manifold, i could fab something up pretty easy.

 

Yes it's a draw thru, I think I even have the manifold to bolt on a Hitachi/Weber 32/36. I rebuit it and never used it. I got the parts I think from a place called turbo city?

 

It was some type of tuner kit that you could buy in the early 70s, I'll try to dig around in the garage, or it could be in the house somewhere. This is old school shit, no wastegate.

[spudly13]

Sweet, let me know what you come up with!

[docbainey]

Found it, Turns out it's for a pinto or capri. I''ld post some pics but I'm to stupid to figure it out :confused:

http://s1149.photobucket.com/albums/o597/docbainey/?action=view&current=Picture005.jpg

[spudly13]

Any shaft play? and can the housing be clocked to work better with my existing up pipe? im trying to look at the pics and figure out the carb intake works? does the triangle bolt to the compresor housing using only 3 of the bolt holes and the rectangle to the carb?

 

What would you want for the parts that you have???

[docbainey]

Any shaft play? and can the housing be clocked to work better with my existing up pipe? im trying to look at the pics and figure out the carb intake works? does the triangle bolt to the compresor housing using only 3 of the bolt holes and the rectangle to the carb?

 

What would you want for the parts that you have???

Yes, the rectangular mount goes on your intake manifold, the turbo then bolts onto the silve piece. If you put a weber adapter on your intake manifold it will all bolt on. The intake housing can spin 360deg. This turbo uses a full floating plain bearing, I think they term it 'hydro dynamic'. The best thing to do would be to switch out the exhaust housing with a rectangular port one. This piece came out of Livonia, mich, I'l need to do some research, Car corp could be a precurser to Roush Racing, remember this is early 70s stuff.

 

Why don't you run a pressurized carb?

 

Still looking for my HP book on turboing, is that a word? I'm still trying to think about the seal. If you notice all the piping is very short. Your set up wouldn't be that bad if your your intake side of the turbo was spun towards the manifold. It would shorten up your pipe dramatically

 

Fuel injected cars will run with the intake side of the turbo disconnected. in your case you should see if you can get it to run without the exhaust side connected.

[spudly13]

Yes, the rectangular mount goes on your intake manifold, the turbo then bolts onto the silve piece. If you put a weber adapter on your intake manifold it will all bolt on. The intake housing can spin 360deg. This turbo uses a full floating plain bearing, I think they term it 'hydro dynamic'. The best thing to do would be to switch out the exhaust housing with a rectangular port one. This piece came out of Livonia, mich, I'l need to do some research, Car corp could be a precurser to Roush Racing, remember this is early 70s stuff.

 

Why don't you run a pressurized carb?

 

Still looking for my HP book on turboing, is that a word? I'm still trying to think about the seal. If you notice all the piping is very short. Your set up wouldn't be that bad if your your intake side of the turbo was spun towards the manifold. It would shorten up your pipe dramatically

 

Fuel injected cars will run with the intake side of the turbo disconnected. in your case you should see if you can get it to run without the exhaust side connected.

 

 

Pressurizing the the carb wouldnt change anything on a suck through application, on my blow through however i did have to pressurize the float bowls. If that turbo was used in a suck through application i would imagine the seal is right, in later pictures i clocked the turbo and shortened the intake. Im going to disconect my turbo when i get back and make an adapter for a single SU so i can ensure that the problem does not lie within the motor but the turbo and carb set up.

[docbainey]

I got un-stupid thanx to datzenmike

[spudly13]

Pictures look good

[spudly13]

Docbainey: I messaged you

[spudly13]

Figured i mine as well give you guys an update... Motor is running on dual su's N/a with a stock manifold (couldnt get my header back in) FOR NOW!!! i have not given up just yet!

 

My turbo i was using broke, and wasnt really suited for suck through, just a sliiiggghhhttttt overlook on my part, so im going to find a smaller turbo with a carbon seal

Also will be finding a bit bigger carb off of a z

 

Hopefully i can gather up some parts and get it running again boosted, I got used to the boost and man it feels slow now!

 

Thanks for all the help!

[docbainey]

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner Spudly. Been cartin that thing around for over 35yrs, gotta hang on to it.

[spudly13]

No worries! i think im just going to go back to blow through on a vf11 until i can source all the right parts

[fiveoneohray]

That looks way better. If I might make a suggestion? Pipe in cold air from in front of the rad. The turbo and the compression concentrates the heat just like a diesel does. Under hood air isn't the way to go here. The cooler you can get or keep the air the more advance and or boost you can run without the risk of detonation.

 

 

If this is to warm the intake charge I totally do not get this at all. Maybe winter non boost but otherwise....

 

Totally would be cool to use air conditioner to drop the intake air temp to near freezing.

 

 

The Carb and intake froze up even when I was in 80+ deg weather in so cal. So yes the lines are there to warm the intake charge. Low pressure high volume makes for cold intake charge especially when adding the cooling ability of fuel.

I built this to defy the laws of turbocharging so to speak. It runs great and I drove it from Seattle to JCCS with out a hiccup other than the throttle getting frozen and stuck open while going through LA.

 

Despite what it looks like that is not a normal su its from a 1966 Jaguar. I ran that since its much bigger than a z car su. It also has a few better adjustable portions to it. It took a while to find it.

 

Sorry for the late reply. Im not on here much ever anymore....

[Logical1]

The Carb and intake froze up even when I was in 80+ deg weather in so cal. So yes the lines are there to warm the intake charge. Low pressure high volume makes for cold intake charge especially when adding the cooling ability of fuel.

I built this to defy the laws of turbocharging so to speak. It runs great and I drove it from Seattle to JCCS with out a hiccup other than the throttle getting frozen and stuck open while going through LA.

 

Despite what it looks like that is not a normal su its from a 1966 Jaguar. I ran that since its much bigger than a z car su. It also has a few better adjustable portions to it. It took a while to find it.

 

Sorry for the late reply. Im not on here much ever anymore....

 

Thanks for the info & dig your set-up/dime! I am currently building a SU draw through myself and hoped you could give me your advice on a couple questions I have. You mention a single Z SU is a bit small for the bigger L series engines. I am hoping to build this for a L20 but I am thinking that even the 2" Jaguar SU is not enough carb for that displacement and a dual carb to turbo would be tricky / complicated system. In your experience do you think its possible to build a draw-though for a L20 with SU's or should I look towards a smaller displacement block? Also curious to what kind of timing you running and any other advice for us nutty SU turbo guys, Thanks!

[spudly13]

Thanks for the info & dig your set-up/dime! I am currently building a SU draw through myself and hoped you could give me your advice on a couple questions I have. You mention a single Z SU is a bit small for the bigger L series engines. I am hoping to build this for a L20 but I am thinking that even the 2" Jaguar SU is not enough carb for that displacement and a dual carb to turbo would be tricky / complicated system. In your experience do you think its possible to build a draw-though for a L20 with SU's or should I look towards a smaller displacement block? Also curious to what kind of timing you running and any other advice for us nutty SU turbo guys, Thanks!

 

 

If you ever get yours going you should definately let me check it out!!!, im still determined to do it but am back to blow through at the moment