datsun65 Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm trying to bring my 1970 510 back from the dead. I have a newly rebuilt Matchbox dizzy and a new MSD Blaster 2 coil. Im having problems with the matchbox electronic ingnition not giving any spark. It is a newly rebuilt EI unit with a new MSD blaster coil. Ballast Resistor has been deleted. I have connected: Black/White wire to +Coil Black/Blue wire to +Coil Then from the +Coil to the B Tab on the Distributor Then from the -Coil to the C Tab on the Distributor Then grounded the Distrubutor out using the remaining tab. As a next step, I checked spark from the coil, and there wasn't any spark there either. I then undid all the wiring and and disconnected the wiring from the coil (+ / -) and EI distributer (B/C). I then simply hooked the MSD blaster coil to the positive and negative posts of the battery The coil got warm but still didn't produce spark. At this point what should I be checking? I went out and bought several additional ground wires tonite , as I suspect maybe I'm fighting a chasis ground issue. I'd really appreciate any suggestions. Thanks, Dan Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm trying to bring my 1970 510 back from the dead. I have a newly rebuilt Matchbox dizzy and a new MSD Blaster 2 coil. Im having problems with the matchbox electronic ingnition not giving any spark. It is a newly rebuilt EI unit with a new MSD blaster coil. Ballast Resistor has been deleted. I have connected: Black/White wire to +Coil Black/Blue wire to +Coil Then from the +Coil to the B Tab on the Distributor Then from the -Coil to the C Tab on the Distributor Then grounded the Distrubutor out using the remaining tab. As a next step, I checked spark from the coil, and there wasn't any spark there either. I then undid all the wiring and and disconnected the wiring from the coil (+ / -) and EI distributer (B/C). I then simply hooked the MSD blaster coil to the positive and negative posts of the battery The coil got warm but still didn't produce spark. At this point what should I be checking? I went out and bought several additional ground wires tonite , as I suspect maybe I'm fighting a chasis ground issue. I'd really appreciate any suggestions. Thanks, Dan I don't know if the coil is made for the matchbox, but to test the coil you connect the positive side to the pos. battery post, put the coil wire that goes to the dist. cap near the negitive post of the battery, then take a wire connected to the negitive post of the battery and touch the negitive side of the coil for a couple seconds and then remove it, the dist. coil wire should jump a spark to the negitive post. The coil wire needs to be within a quarter of an inch from the neg. post. Let us know if you got a spark. Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 BLACK/WHITE wire is not hot during cranking (unless you replaced the original 510 ignition switch with a newer one). Connect both the Black/White and the the Start wire to Coil +. Quote Link to comment
datsun65 Posted December 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I don't know if the coil is made for the matchbox, but to test the coil you connect the positive side to the pos. battery post, put the coil wire that goes to the dist. cap near the negitive post of the battery, then take a wire connected to the negitive post of the battery and touch the negitive side of the coil for a couple seconds and then remove it, the dist. coil wire should jump a spark to the negitive post. The coil wire needs to be within a quarter of an inch from the neg. post. Let us know if you got a spark. Thanks, Wayno. I'll try this out tomorrow. Does the coil simply need to charge up a bit (pos to pos & neg to neg on the battery posts) then it will discharge a spark? What happens if you leave the coil directly connected to the battery for too long? Quote Link to comment
datsun65 Posted December 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Connect both the Black/White and the the Start wire to Coil +. Thanks, Ggzilla. I've wired up the coil as you suggested, but was not getting spark from the coil. Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Thanks, Wayno. I'll try this out tomorrow. Does the coil simply need to charge up a bit (pos to pos & neg to neg on the battery posts) then it will discharge a spark? What happens if you leave the coil directly connected to the battery for too long? Lets just say, I hope you didn't smoke it. The negitive wire needs to be on there just a couple seconds then remove it and the coil should discharge a spark. the thing is that when the engine is running it is just about on all the time anyway, so maybe it's alright. Let the coil cool off, then try what I discribed, I think ggzilla told me how to test it, and he just posted a few minutes ago also, I had the same problem a week ago, no spark, turned out the previous owner had the wires on the coil backwards, the positive was connected to the neg. side of the coil, so the matchbox was also backwards, this photo helped me figure out the problem. Quote Link to comment
crackerjack69 Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 What kind of dizzy was in there before??? Matchbox style is clocked differently than the L16 dizzy. Put motor at TDC and check under cap to make sure rotor is directly under #1 on the cap. If the rotor is too far away from the terminal on the cap, it won't jump. Might have to re-clock your oil pump. Quote Link to comment
datsun65 Posted December 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 very cool testing setup. So... - The red wire from the coil is positive, and it goes to the 'B' tab on the Distributor. - The blue wire from the coil is negative, and goes to the 'C' tab on the Distributer. - The black wire from the fuse block, is connected to the 'extra' tab on the distributer? - The alligator clip on the base of the distributor is also just a ground, correct? Thanks, guys. Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 As you can see in the photo, the top of the tee goes to the negitive side of the coil, the bottom of the tee goes to the positive side of the coil, and the neg. battery post goes to the distributor ground, and the positive battery post goes to the positive side of the coil. In this photo the red wire doesn't go directly to the coil, but it really does, if you look carefully. Quote Link to comment
datsun65 Posted December 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 What kind of dizzy was in there before??? Matchbox style is clocked differently than the L16 dizzy. Put motor at TDC and check under cap to make sure rotor is directly under #1 on the cap. If the rotor is too far away from the terminal on the cap, it won't jump. Might have to re-clock your oil pump This is a new motor that I've never used before. It originally had a nice Mallory distrubutor set-up. The only numbering on it was 2358901. Please forgive the simplicity of some of my questions. I have the matchbox oriented toward the radiator of the car, How do I figure out which wire from the cap is #1? Then, from the front of the head , what is the numbering of the spark plugs? Thanks again Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 very cool testing setup. So... - The red wire from the coil is positive, and it goes to the 'B' tab on the Distributor. - The blue wire from the coil is negative, and goes to the 'C' tab on the Distributer. - The black wire from the fuse block, is connected to the 'extra' tab on the distributer? - The alligator clip on the base of the distributor is also just a ground, correct? Thanks, guys. The black wires are negitive, the red wires on the left are positive, and the blue wire is the negitive side of the coil to the top of the tee on the matchbox. I am not sure what the red wires are on the right. Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 This is a new motor that I've never used before. It originally had a nice Mallory distrubutor set-up. The only numbering on it was 2358901. Please forgive the simplicity of some of my questions. I have the matchbox oriented toward the radiator of the car, How do I figure out which wire from the cap is #1? Then, from the front of the head , what is the numbering of the spark plugs? Thanks again The firing order is 1-3-4-2, the black box on the side should be towards the radiator, standing on the drivers side of the engine compartment, looking at the side of the engine, with the engine at TDC, the rotor should be pointing at aproximately 4pm, that would be #1 wire, counter clockwise 1-3-4-2 Another thing you need to do is remove the valve cover and check the number one cylinder cam position, the cam lobes should point to 10am and 2pm, that is the TDC you need, if they are not in that configuration, you are 180 degrees out and you need to turn the crank ONE complete revolution, then the lobes of the cam should point at 10am and 2pm. Quote Link to comment
crackerjack69 Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 ixnay on pulling the valve cover, just remove the oil cap and look in. I like to put my finger in on the cam and rotate the crank pully till I feel the lobes coming, then align them the rest of the way to 10 and 2 o'clock position by sight. Once you are at TDC, remove the distributor cap. You will have followed the plug wire from #1 cylinder and observed where on the cap is #1. The rotor needs to be directly under #1 on the cap. If it's not, you've found the problem. Quote Link to comment
crackerjack69 Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Just re-read a couple posts up, and realized we never answered your question. #1 spark plug is the front of the engine. They go in numerical order 1-4 front to back, although they fire 1-3-4-2. You can pull the front plug, and put your thumb over the hole while rotating the motor until you feel compression and you'll know you're close to TDC, but the timing mark on the crank pully is usually hard to see, so visually verify the cam lobes are at 10 and 2. Quote Link to comment
Laecaon Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I think his bigger problem is just getting spark. It doesnt matter how the dizzy is adjusted, it should still make the coil spark. Quote Link to comment
DanielC Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 This is a slightly modified wiring diagram from a 521, I believe a 510 ignition wiring is similar. The black with red wire at the top of the diagram is power from the key, in crank position. The black with white wire at the top of the diagram is power from the key, in run position. If you are not sure your EI distributer works, make a test setup like I did. Supply battery positive to the B terminal on the matchbox, and positive terminal on the coil. Connect the negative terminal on the coil to the C terminal on the matchbox. Supply battery negative to the ground terminal on the matchbox, by the vacuum diaphragm. Put a spark tester into the high voltage out of the coil, and connect the other end of the spark tester to battery negative. Spin the distributer. You should get nice big sparks. Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 This is kinda funny, in all the years of running a matchbox, I never seen them letters(B&C) on there before.:lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Have you tested the coil yet? Quote Link to comment
datsun65 Posted December 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Haven't tested yet. Car is at my friends shop about 45 minutes away. Can't wait to get this figured out. Thanks to all for the advise so far! Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 This is kinda funny, in all the years of running a matchbox, I never seen them letters(B&C) on there before.:lol: :lol: :lol: Here's one from a '79 truck... from an L24 matchbox... Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I have connected: Black/White wire to +Coil Black/Blue wire to +Coil Then from the +Coil to the B Tab on the Distributor Then from the -Coil to the C Tab on the Distributor Then grounded the Distrubutor out using the remaining tab. ABOVE is correct and the center coil wire place it near the chassis and it should fire If NOT then the dist is bad. The MSD Coil should be fine. I assume your cking for spark right at the coil wire where it goes in the coil. Remove from center distr cap place near the chassis then key key and should be about 1/4 to 1/8 from metal and should snap/spark. If NOT ck for 12volt. swap out dizzy or coil. But just make sure the blk/wht wire is getting 12volts with the key in ON position. Then grounded the Distrubutor out using the remaining tab.???? I havent really seen thses hooked up but try disconnecting it. just to make sure you dont have this connected to the minus side of coil.(I know your not that dumb but just in case) watch this when you have nothing to do Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Everyone here was refering the connections with letters, and I was always refering to the top and bottom of the tee, so today I really looked at it with my reading glasses on, and there they were, I just don't pay attention to the little things, I can see the two connections, and there is only one wire on the neg. side of the coil, and that goes to the top of the tee, except if you have a tach. Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 MSD Blaster 2 & 3 coils are high-energy and should be used without a ballast resistor. MSD Blaster will not work, it is for special multi-channel setups. In any case an EI or Resistor-type coil can be used for testing and starting the engine. Just don't use it for minutes at a time. Quote Link to comment
datsun65 Posted December 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 At the shop this afternoon. Installed new ground straps , wired everything as explained and set the base timing. Here are the Results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2WN0iWElgA&feature=context&context=C3c6f8d3ADOEgsToPDskJrQusL-h3j2kmNNK0owm3j Thanks for the help and advice! Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 your getting close!!!!!!!!!!!!!! with 2 people no reason you cant get that running today. get a gasket and hook that exhaust up! if it dont hit the floor(L20B) You ck the dizzy timming and make sure your on 31 plug wire at TDC and have alot of movement in the timming plate adjustment????? try opening the carbs before shooting starting fluid in. so more past the throttle plates Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.