l20 cam in l16

[wayno]

Banzai510 said:

If anything build a motor on the side. and get a real cam.

I have a Schneider 460lift and 260in/270 dur exhaust and that should be stock in thses motors!!!!!

 

Isn't this a fairly radical cam for a stock application? I am trying to figure out what cam to put into my W53 peant head that has the largest valves the head would except, the head is going on a Z22 block with Z24 pistons I beleave(i have the block), but the block isn't in the shop yet, but the head is, so I need to figure out what the cam is going to be so it can be installed correctly. Stock L20b cam, or something else, that is the question.

[ggzilla]

Naw, stock is 248 degrees, so 260/270 is just a couple of steps up. The increased lift is good, the only downside usually increased wear, but that is not so much of a problem with the SOHC. A12 had a factory cam with 256 degrees, so it's not so farfetched.

 

Especially as the L20B is conservatively cammed for "torque" I'm surprised it didn't come with a higher duration cam especially in car applications. Probably the JDM models did, Datsun 810 came with L20B including a fuel-injected version.

[NWOleman]

gears are the cheapest horspower! put lower gears in it if you want it to pull harder and accelerate faster. there is a fie line tho, you don't want to go to low and be driving down the freeway at5grand and goin 50mph. just my 2cents.

[ggzilla]

amen. Just fit a 5-speed if you care about freeway cruising or fuel economy

[wayno]

I have only 5 speeds behind L blocks since the mid 90s, what do you think of this company? http://www.webcamshafts.com/index_blank.html?pages/automobile/datsun/datsun_l_series_(69-80)_sohc_8v.html What do you think of part# 15-000 with the 450 lift and 260 duration? I am not sure if I want to deal with grinding the pistons for clearance though, is that common with a mild cam, or would that even be an issue with the Z24 pistons in the Z22 block with the 145.9mm rods?

[datzenmike]

The distance from the crank center line to the top of the block or the 'deck height' is 227.45mm on the L20B/Z20 and the Z22. The top of the Z24 piston on a Z22 rod and Z22 crank is 225.9 or 1.55mm from the top of the block. Also the Z24 pistons have a huge 15cc dish for additional valve piston clearance. Keep in mind that the valves are not at full lift at TDC and are closing and opening at that point.

[sick620]

so I pulled valve cover off my L16 and looked at cam..... haha it has the little blocks on it that datzen mike described.... does this mean its for sure an L20 cam? probably a L20 head as well...

[sick620]

oh and thankyou for everyones info....

[wayno]

so I pulled valve cover off my L16 and looked at cam..... haha it has the little blocks on it that datzen mike described.... does this mean its for sure an L20 cam? probably a L20 head as well...

I do not beleave that the A87 head came on the L16 SICK620, I cannot seem to copy the address of the "early cyl. head ID" site, I am not sure why. The A87 came both closed and open, the only way to tell which you have as far as I know is to pull the head and look. If your cam has them bumps as Datzenmike discribed, then it probably will do you no good to change your cam as there would be no upgrade unless your cam is wore out. The A87 head was put on the L18 and L20b engines according to the head ID site that IZZO posted the link to, that I seem unable to copy and paste, and I am unable to find the thread that the link is posted in. I think the thread was called "U67 head", but I am unable to find it. Sorry about the thread jack, but i am about to do it again. :unsure: :huh:

[wayno]

The distance from the crank center line to the top of the block or the 'deck height' is 227.45mm on the L20B/Z20 and the Z22. The top of the Z24 piston on a Z22 rod and Z22 crank is 225.9 or 1.55mm from the top of the block. Also the Z24 pistons have a huge 15cc dish for additional valve piston clearance. Keep in mind that the valves are not at full lift at TDC and are closing and opening at that point.

 

Does this mean I more than likely will not have to notch the pistons for valve clearance using that cam with 450 lift and 260 duration with the block discribed?

[datzenmike]

Not a problem with it if using an L head I would think. Forgot to add that there is an additional 1.2mm of gasket thickness there as well.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Does this mean I more than likely will not have to notch the pistons for valve clearance using that cam with 450 lift and 260 duration with the block discribed?

 

Dont worry about that. the duration is not long enough plus you could also up the cam sprocket to the next position so eveything moves up in the time frame.

 

Schneider dont make new cams anymore they do regrinds.Regrinds youll need bigger lash pads and the best guess of 160. usually in the 180- 190 range from my exp.

Crane cams went out of bussiness

Isky dont list cams for datsuns on there website anymore, Webcamshafts makes Cams for the Toyota after market motor builder LC Engineneering(look it up) so they have a track record.

 

I have 2 Webcamshafts 488/252 cams but not installed. and takes over a month to get.

 

Remember the 450 lift youll have to subtract your valve lash so remeber it will always be less than you think.(i would get bigger) I got the bigger ones but think I will lower the valves spring seat heat to make sure the valve springs dont bind. What I do is use one motorsport spring and one stock spring. usually the inner will be close to binding first. So maybe Ill get that seat milled down 30 to 40 thous and it will be OK. maybe it wont need to be cut at all.

 

cams cost money to do right and to get the most power you need sidedrafts. or at least a 38/38 weber.

 

If I could do things over again I would get a l20 and bolt a 38/38 and see what happens

 

Wayno.

Make sure the machine shop cuts the valves and valve seats so when all the valvesa are in the valve step height at top is close to the same. so one can assume you get onely one size lash pad or if still stock the stock lash pads will be seated all the same so when you do your rocker arms the pad wear will be close to the middle

[wayno]

Ok, I talked with the machine shop guy(AC) and he tells me it just isn't going to work for me, he told me he doesn't even put that long of a duration cam(238 at 50 thousands) in V8s, he says that I tow with this truck everyday and if I put that cam in I will not have the tork anymore to get the truck moving. I tow everyday with this truck, I have to get moving somewhere between one to two tons of weight everytime I let the clutch out with the trailer and all the debris in the back of the truck. I guess I want to much out of that engine. AC told me I should use a stock cam or RV cam and turbocharge it, that is the only way I will keep my tork and have more power at 3 to 4.5 thousand rpms. I haven't told him I am running dual SUs yet, I suppose I could run a weber with a turbo, but my best option I think is to give up on the L20b in the work truck and just drop the VG30 I bought into it and be happy. What do you guys think? Should I start my own thread also?

[banzai510(hainz)]

machine shop guy(AC)??

Fire him.

 

stock cam w turbo=good but dont know how you get torq untill the turbo spools up.

 

SSS cam = .434/248 dur in my motorsport book

L7 cam =.475/270

L9 cam .490/290

L4 race .580/278

L3 race .620/300.

 

If I remember right it was the L16 83mm bores that needed notching if big cam and the 38mm exhaust valves or the 44mm intakes(cant remeber ) I just use the 42/38 set as its cheaper not to swap valves seats.going to 85mm or bigger isnt going to be a proplem.

[wayno]

machine shop guy(AC)??

Fire him.

 

stock cam w turbo=good but dont know how you get torq untill the turbo spools up.

 

SSS cam = .434/248 dur in my motorsport book

L7 cam =.475/270

L9 cam .490/290

L4 race .580/278

L3 race .620/300.

 

If I remember right it was the L16 83mm bores that needed notching if big cam and the 38mm exhaust valves or the 44mm intakes(cant remeber ) I just use the 42/38 set as its cheaper not to swap valves seats.going to 85mm or bigger isnt going to be a proplem.

AC is AC Nutter Racing engines, he is one amoung many machine shops that build engines for racing, mostly for running around in circles, not dragstrip, what he tells me Hainz, is if I buy a cam that gives me more power in the 3 to 4.5 thousand rpm range, I will lose power in the lower rpm range, he says I am trading power/tork for more power at the higher rpms. Since I need the tork to get the rig moving as it weights so much loaded, I have come to the conclusion that I don't know enough about cams to mess around with it right now. This is the truck I want the engine for, the trailer weighs a min. of 1500 lbs. and the truck can have a ton of debris in the back of it, it's not a race car, it's a work horse. I want more power on the freeway, but I cannot give any of the low end power up either, AC says I need more cubic inches, I guess I will try to drop a VG30 in it then.

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

Looking at what your hauling I say, VG30.

 

I like more lift than 450 myself as what it cost to do the head I want alot more. Why waist the money for 2-5 hp.

sidedraft are no for you has your a hauler. You need air vol!

 

best a weber DGV maybe or a 38/38 in a L20 could help.But going by your photos I say to be honest, buy a Ford 100/250 down the street for $1k.

 

I have a 475/275 cam in my 1st motor I built(its in my 510). So if I can do one so can you. I dont know where your engine builder said it might be too big as this 475/275 is common and more on the smaller side of what datsun builders used back in the day. I say 220-230@.050 duration(.460-490lift) is about good for a street car. But maybe not in your application.

Most newer cams have a steeper ramp lift and a more gradual lower to get that extra duraion(asymitrical) and not pound the valve seat. One way to move to cam up is too set to position 2 on sprocket or maybe to #3. this cause the cam to open/close sooner. best to degree a cam but I dont know how to do that. I just run them on #2 if I have a Perf cam if I want power sooner. if power later set it to the lower number. but L20s came with #2 position.

You could try this and see if it works as its FREE,if you dont drop the chain.

 

icehouse is the expert on electrics on hooking a EFI motor. Best get his CAN/AM box if hooking up a VG.

[wayno]

Looking at what your hauling I say, VG30.

 

I like more lift than 450 myself as what it cost to do the head I want alot more. Why waist the money for 2-5 hp.

sidedraft are no for you has your a hauler. You need air vol!

 

best a weber DGV maybe or a 38/38 in a L20 could help.But going by your photos I say to be honest, buy a Ford 100/250 down the street for $1k.

 

I have a 475/275 cam in my 1st motor I built(its in my 510). So if I can do one so can you. I dont know where your engine builder said it might be too big as this 475/275 is common and more on the smaller side of what datsun builders used back in the day. I say 220-230@.050 duration(.460-490lift) is about good for a street car. But maybe not in your application.

Most newer cams have a steeper ramp lift and a more gradual lower to get that extra duraion(asymitrical) and not pound the valve seat. One way to move to cam up is too set to position 2 on sprocket or maybe to #3. this cause the cam to open/close sooner. best to degree a cam but I dont know how to do that. I just run them on #2 if I have a Perf cam if I want power sooner. if power later set it to the lower number. but L20s came with #2 position.

You could try this and see if it works as its FREE,if you dont drop the chain.

 

icehouse is the expert on electrics on hooking a EFI motor. Best get his CAN/AM box if hooking up a VG.

I have PMed him and posted on his thread and received no responce, I actually want to buy one for the VG30, I was hoping that he would show up at canby, and I would try to get my order in that way. If I have most the parts ready, I would be more inclined to get started on that project, as I need MORE POWER on the hiway.:lol: I have tried a lot of ways to make the truck user friendly, I have used 488s, 437s, and 388s, the 388s were worthless except using the truck like a car, coundn't get it moving with a heavy load without smoking the clutch, the 488 gears were great till I got on the hiway, then I was floored just trying to keep up with everyone, also I wore that one out pretty fast, but it was a tork monster, I could pull a wheelie with that setup, to much weight in back of the axle. So I settled with the 437s, when I am not hauling weight it goes really fast, with the old block and head it went pretty good, but sadly with this fresh W53 head(stock valves) and the tight bottomend I put it on, it doesn't have the power the wore out block had, the big valves in the old head made a big differance. That is the head in the shop now being rebuilt that I have been asking about cams on Sick620s thread that I have hijacked. wayno

[banzai510(hainz)]

Jeff (Icehouse) is very busy with school work. I can get ahold of him but he ran out of those CAN/AM boxes and needs to make a bunch more before he even looks at orders. Be honest I think most of the boxes will sit on ones shelf before most will get actually used. The box is cheap. Its buying all the other stuff for the KA/SR/VG swap that ones needs to get sorted out before one takes on this challenge.

Im 90% sure the boxes will be ready by Canby.

 

Best HP gain in a NA asperated car is sideddrafts/turbo but not to good at Low rpm.

Maybe you could get by with your good head and bigger block with a 38/38 DGES but I notice with my 38/38 if stiuck on a hill I could kill it and have to clutch it. Mine was/is jetted for a landcruiser FJ40. I was lucky and got it for 100bucks.

My 521 with the low gear ratio is just ezer to drive around town. Im in 4th gear by 35mph.

My 510 not, I got to pull it out long to get power but it goes good for a L16.

 

If you run 200mm flywheels I would get a roadster pressure plate.

[wayno]

Jeff (Icehouse) is very busy with school work. I can get ahold of him but he ran out of those CAN/AM boxes and needs to make a bunch more before he even looks at orders. Be honest I think most of the boxes will sit on ones shelf before most will get actually used. The box is cheap. Its buying all the other stuff for the KA/SR/VG swap that ones needs to get sorted out before one takes on this challenge.

Im 90% sure the boxes will be ready by Canby.

 

Best HP gain in a NA asperated car is sideddrafts/turbo but not to good at Low rpm.

Maybe you could get by with your good head and bigger block with a 38/38 DGES but I notice with my 38/38 if stiuck on a hill I could kill it and have to clutch it. Mine was/is jetted for a landcruiser FJ40. I was lucky and got it for 100bucks.

My 521 with the low gear ratio is just ezer to drive around town. Im in 4th gear by 35mph.

My 510 not, I got to pull it out long to get power but it goes good for a L16.

 

If you run 200mm flywheels I would get a roadster pressure plate.

Your right about the Z22 block with Z24 pistons and my big valved head, I am sure I will have more power, and I may just transfer the fresh engine in once it is done, paid the IRS yesterday, going to have to pay the property taxes in the next week or so, also have the 1st quarter company taxes, and the car insurance annual payment to make by the end of the month also, it's to much money going out at once. But I will survive it this year, as i do every year. It just makes me sad to see everything I have saved over the year disappear so quickly. Jeff contacted me last night via PM, and said he has what I need now, all I have to do is pay for it, I will probably do that tonight. Off to see the artist, redoing the sides on the NL320 getting it ready for canby, black just shows everything. wayno :rolleyes: