what type and where can you put an electronic oil pressure relay/senor on engine

[boxboy]

Aha! So, if I get all the parts from an 80-86 Datsun/Nissan, there is no need for an adapter of any kind. Correct?

[wayno]

OK, I went into the parts shed and found the oil senser off a nissan 720 PU, I tried to thread it into the oil galley hole and ran into a problem, the transmission adapter plate seems to be in the way, I was able to turn it into the hole a couple turns only, if I was to shave a millimeter of the plate with a grinder it would probably go in fine, but if you were to buy an extention it would work fine, the one in the photos doesn't have the right threads even though I was able to get half a turn to hold it in position, but you get the idea. As you can see, one of the photos is of the stock oil light senser next to the distributer of a J15 engine I have.

 

[XXL]

 

 

e

 

 

 

My oil light started flickering on my '68 520 J13.  The flicker is not consistent with a real oil pressure problem... ie, when you rev the engine, you'd expect oil pressure to go up, so long as the pump isn't completely dead... which you'd know pretty quick, if that was the case.  Instead, the light will flicker on and off randomly.  I have a feeling it's just the oil pressure sending unit that needs replacing.  I looked up a zillion part numbers via Rock Auto, and just picked up that item at local auto parts store.  But it doesn't fit.  The threads are too large a diameter for what came out of my motor.

 

Here is the Rock Auto info...

 

 

AIRTEX Part # PS100

KEMPARTS Part # PS84

AIRTEX Part # 2G8

STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # PS171T

STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # PS171

BECK/ARNLEY Part # 2010262

ACDELCO Part # E1802

 

 

 

Alternate/OEM Part Number(s): 12337043, 1S6660, 2524009400, 2524089900, 2524089901, 2524089902, 2524089910, 37240P2FA01, 37240PD2003, 37240PD2004, 37240PT0003, 37240PT0004, 37240PT0013, 37240PT0014, 37240PT0023, 5862028310, 5862028320, 88924456, 8941187550, 8943129400, 94118755, 94312940

 

Alternate/OEM Part Number(s): 12337043, 2524009400, 2524089900, 2524089901, 2524089902, 2524089910, 37240PT0004, 37240PT0013, 478097C1, 8941187550, 8943129400, 8980130140, 94118755, 94312940, E1802, E1833, GPS128, SWE1584

 

ACURA CL (1997 - 2003)

ACURA EL (2001 - 2005)

ACURA INTEGRA (1986 - 2001)

ACURA LEGEND (1991 - 1995)

ACURA MDX (2001 - 2012)

ACURA RL (1996 - 2012)

ACURA RSX (2002 - 2006)

ACURA SLX (1996 - 1999)

ACURA TL (1995 - 2012)

ACURA TSX (2004 - 2012)

ACURA VIGOR (1992 - 1994)

ACURA ZDX (2010 - 2012)

CHEVROLET SPECTRUM (1985 - 1988)

GEO STORM (1990 - 1991)

HONDA ACCORD (1987 - 2012)

HONDA CIVIC (1984 - 2005)

HONDA CIVIC DEL SOL (1993 - 1995)

HONDA CR-V (1997 - 2006)

HONDA CRX (1988 - 1991)

HONDA ELEMENT (2003 - 2011)

HONDA ODYSSEY (1995 - 2010)

HONDA PASSPORT (1998 - 2002)

HONDA PILOT (2003 - 2010)

HONDA PRELUDE (1986 - 2000)

HONDA RIDGELINE (2006 - 2012)

ISUZU AMIGO (1998 - 2000)

ISUZU AXIOM (2002 - 2004)

ISUZU I-MARK (1985 - 1989)

ISUZU OASIS (1996 - 1999)

ISUZU RODEO (1993 - 2004)

ISUZU RODEO SPORT (2001 - 2003)

ISUZU STYLUS (1991 - 1993)

ISUZU TROOPER (1992 - 2002)

ISUZU VEHICROSS (1999 - 2001)

MAZDA RX-2 (1971 - 1973)

NISSAN 1200 (1971 - 1973)

NISSAN 210 (1979 - 1982)

NISSAN 310 (1979 - 1982)

NISSAN 410 1965

NISSAN 411 (1966 - 1967)

NISSAN 510 (1968 - 1979)

NISSAN 520 PICKUP (1966 - 1968)

NISSAN 521 PICKUP (1969 - 1972)

NISSAN 610 (1973 - 1976)

NISSAN 620 PICKUP (1972 - 1979)

NISSAN 710 (1974 - 1977)

NISSAN 720 PICKUP (1980 - 1986)

NISSAN B210 (1974 - 1978)

NISSAN F10 (1976 - 1978)

NISSAN MAXIMA (1982 - 1984)

NISSAN MICRA (1984 - 1989)

NISSAN PULSAR NX (1983 - 1984)

NISSAN SENTRA (1982 - 1985)

NISSAN STANZA (1982 - 1986)

 

The part that came out has the following numbers on it... "08283" and "53."  Googling those numbers didn't get me anywhere.  

 

Part on left is the one that came out.  Part on right is the one I bought today that doesn't fit.

 

 

Micrometer shows diameter of threaded end for each...

 

 

 

Any suggestions on a part number or interchange that will fit my J13?

 

... and all this just to see if it's a faulty pressure switch or something that's about to eat my motor :(

[datzenmike]

First I can't see that list saying that a Nissan oil pressure sender will fit Isuzu, Honda, Acura etc. The Nissan oil senders are unique in that they use a BSP thread and not metric or  NPT for use in the US/Canada.

 

1/8" BPT has a diameter of 0.383"

 

1/8" NPT has a diameter of 0.405"

 

See how closely your measurements are?. These are also tapered threads so they will be narrowest at the tip.

[XXL]

First I can't see that list saying that a Nissan oil pressure sender will fit Isuzu, Honda, Acura etc. The Nissan oil senders are unique in that they use a BSP thread and not metric or  NPT for use in the US/Canada.

 

1/8" BPT has a diameter of 0.383"

 

1/8" NPT has a diameter of 0.405"

 

See how closely your measurements are?. These are also tapered threads so they will be narrowest at the tip.

 

So what am I looking for, then?  BPT?  Any chance you have a part number or other fitment info I could use to look it up?  If I plug in 1968 Datsun (Nissan) 520 into Rock Auto's online catalog, it gives me part numbers that "fit" the list I posted above... my 520, Isuzu, etc.  So, that's what I bought... which does NOT fit... and I'm guessing that's because it's the wrong pipe thread as you mention above.  

 

My local (craptastic) auto parts store ALSO thinks I need the one I bought.  Their computer catalog lists an AC Delco #E1802, which they crossed over to their house brand, which they had in stock.  That's the one on the right in my pictures... that does NOT fit :(

 

Edit:  I went back and re-read your comments on the British threads a few posts up... so should I be trying to fit an "MG" at my local auto parts store to get something with the right threads?  Will it have the right pressure values to properly monitor the oil pressure?

[wayno]

All oil pressure light switches are on/off, so there is no "value" that I know of.

I have the same issue with my SD22/25 engines, them freaking oil holes on the sides seem to be a thread all there own.

The old one above is tapered, but the new one doesn't look tapered, so that is likely the issue.

Try the MG one, if that won't work, then exhaust all the parts houses you can go to, and if that fails, then put an ad in the parts wanted section for a used one off a J13, someone on here has some old engine laying around somewhere with that oil pressure switch on it.

 

What I did was find an adapter that fit and put a tee on the adapter, then I used a pressure switch and an oil pressure gauge, that way I really know what is going on, of course I am using 720 hardware.

[datzenmike]

The MG should work. If it's simply a switch that closes below 5-8 PSI to turn the red oil warning lamp in the dash ON.

 

Is there a wrecking yard near you? Just pull one from any Nissan up to '86 that doesn't have a gauge in it. The same sender was used all the way back to the 520. The sender close contacts below 5-8 PSI and provides a ground for the bulb to light it up.

[XXL]

All oil pressure light switches are on/off, so there is no "value" that I know of.

 

Try the MG one, if that won't work, then exhaust all the parts houses you can go to, and if that fails, then put an ad in the parts wanted section for a used one off a J13, someone on here has some old engine laying around somewhere with that oil pressure switch on it.

 

What I did was find an adapter that fit and put a tee on the adapter, then I used a pressure switch and an oil pressure gauge, that way I really know what is going on, of course I am using 720 hardware.

 

 

Well, they're on/off... but they do so at a given value (like 5#, or 20#, or whatever).  I don't know what threshold "low oil pressure" is on the 1300.

 

And my issue with "exhausting parts houses" is that I don't know how to tell them what I want.  When I tell them '68 Datsun 520 J1300, everybody's database is pulling up the WRONG sensor (one with NPT threads)... and since the people behind the counter have no clue beyond what the screen says, I'm stuck.  Even the "expert" parts houses in the area don't have near the expertise as you and others on this board have on Datsun-specific issues.

 

I'm going to one parts house tomorrow that _might_ be a little better informed.  We'll see.  Ultimately, I may have to find a BST-to-NPT adapter so I can use the more readily available NPT units.  I don't want a gauge in the long term, because I want to keep the truck stock looking... but I was thinking about putting a gauge in temporarily so I could CLEARLY determine whether I've got decent oil pressure (I still don't know HOW MUCH pressure is appropriate on the J1300, however... so until I know what "good pressure" is, this is all just guessing.  Sure... I know 0# is bad, but I'm used to seeing 50-70# in GM V8's).

 

Thanks.

[XXL]

The MG should work. If it's simply a switch that closes below 5-8 PSI to turn the red oil warning lamp in the dash ON.

 

Is there a wrecking yard near you? Just pull one from any Nissan up to '86 that doesn't have a gauge in it. The same sender was used all the way back to the 520. The sender close contacts below 5-8 PSI and provides a ground for the bulb to light it up.

 

 

Aha!  That helps a lot.  5-8# is the trigger.  I have one "expert" parts house to try tomorrow, so if we don't find a properly threaded unit that's listed for early Nissan, I'll see if they have something for MG that does work.

[oldskoolvws]

Just food for thought.

 

The oil switch for the idiot light should be just that, a pressure switch as Mike had stated. These are pretty common for switched application such as the oil light or low-high pressure on an A/C.

 

If you have an actual electric gauge and sender though (not mechanical or oil driven), most times the output of the sender will be analog or a scaled voltage type of sender. The gauge reads scaled voltage from the sender and displays it in a value you can understand (PSI, volts, Air Fuel, etc). Pretty much all your electronic senders displaying a value work on this principal with the exception of temperature. Temperature is usually done with bi-metallic expansion. As it expands the resistance value of the metered voltage is changed giving you precise temperature readings.

[XXL]

Just food for thought.

 

The oil switch for the idiot light should be just that, a pressure switch as Mike had stated. These are pretty common for switched application such as the oil light or low-high pressure on an A/C.

 

If you have an actual electric gauge and sender though (not mechanical or oil driven), most times the output of the sender will be analog or a scaled voltage type of sender. The gauge reads scaled voltage from the sender and displays it in a value you can understand (PSI, volts, Air Fuel, etc). Pretty much all your electronic senders displaying a value work on this principal with the exception of temperature. Temperature is usually done with bi-metallic expansion. As it expands the resistance value of the metered voltage is changed giving you precise temperature readings.

 

 

Correct, an idiot light is on/off, and so the pressure switch merely turns on and off at a given setting (when the internal diaphragm feels whatever pressure is is designed to respond to, it moves, which causes the switch to turn off or off).  An oil pressure gauge requires variable input... not just on/off, but "what" the oil pressure is.  Here, the diaphragm inside the sender presses on a varistor (a variable resistor), not a switch.  The varistor has some amount of resistance at any given point... the more it moves one way or the other, the more the resistance value changes.  On the gauge side, it is calibrated so that pressure 0 is at one end of the spectrum of resistance, and pressure (for example) 100 is at the other end of the resistance spectrum.  So, when the sending unit feels 10# of pressure, it sends (for example) 5 ohms of resistance... which the gauge knows to mean 10#.  This is very much like how gas gauges work... telling you whether the tank is full, empty, or somewhere in between.

 

Having said all that... I don't know what Nissan uses as its resistance spectrum for factory oil pressure gauges.  From earlier posts in this thread, it looks like Nissan uses a "dual" sender... one that has both the on/off function (for the idiot light on the dash), and one that contains the varistor function (for the gauge).

[oldskoolvws]

Correct, an idiot light is on/off, and so the pressure switch merely turns on and off at a given setting (when the internal diaphragm feels whatever pressure is is designed to respond to, it moves, which causes the switch to turn off or off).  An oil pressure gauge requires variable input... not just on/off, but "what" the oil pressure is.  Here, the diaphragm inside the sender presses on a varistor (a variable resistor), not a switch.  The varistor has some amount of resistance at any given point... the more it moves one way or the other, the more the resistance value changes.  On the gauge side, it is calibrated so that pressure 0 is at one end of the spectrum of resistance, and pressure (for example) 100 is at the other end of the resistance spectrum.  So, when the sending unit feels 10# of pressure, it sends (for example) 5 ohms of resistance... which the gauge knows to mean 10#.  This is very much like how gas gauges work... telling you whether the tank is full, empty, or somewhere in between.

good me

Having said all that... I don't know what Nissan uses as its resistance spectrum for factory oil pressure gauges.  From earlier posts in this thread, it looks like Nissan uses a "dual" sender... one that has both the on/off function (for the idiot light on the dash), and one that contains the varistor function (for the gauge).

 

YES! Exactly what I meant but I was keeping it simple. Also, I believe some of the OEM's now are switching to load cell technology for data acquisition purposes of the ECU.

 

I would image the Nissan specs would be in the FSM for testing. I imagine this could be done if not;

 

It could be checked off a few new units for accuracy with a good meter that reads in the mV range and minimal controls. I have a Fluke 715 which is essentially a process calibrator that would work well. You could test mV or ohms. But hook it up to a known good pressure source. Hookup signal to the switch and monitor and record from ZERO. Slowly raise the pressure band (this would be the hardest part, probably need a needle valve and a digital relief). Monitor specific values at incremental stages (say each 5 psi). Eventually the band will MAX (no movement in measurement). That would be your top of your scale, I'm guessing less 10 to 15 percent less is advertised top scale. Validate against a few other senders for your ohm curve.

 

At least in theory, that should work. Okay, I'm going back to stupid now.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Well whichever gauge you decide, obviously the gauge has to match the sending unit. If you use a Dolphin Gauge with a Datsun sender, will the OHM range be accurate for a good reading on the gauge? If you need an aftermarket sender, I know of a few places to get them.

 

Have you looked into Smiths gauges? http://www.gaugeguys.com/

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

As far as the threads are concerned, the rest of the truck is SAE right? So would the threads on the sender be NPT or were they BSP?

[XXL]

As far as the threads are concerned, the rest of the truck is SAE right? So would the threads on the sender be NPT or were they BSP?

 

The threads into the side of my J1300 are absolutely NOT NPT.  I am taking datzenmike's comments above as authoritative, when he says they are 1/8" BST.  However, I JUST got an email response from Beck-Arnley (a replacement parts manufacturer), which states--

 

Our 201-0262 is the correct Oil Pressure Switch for a 1968 Datsun 520 pickup.  I have attached a picture of our part for your reference.  The thread pitch is M10 1.0.  We sell a great many of these Switches, and do not have any complaints on them

 

So they are saying it's metric *sigh* ... Who knows if this person is guessing, looked it up in a book, or measured the actual part.  I really don't care WHAT the threads are.  I just need the right part.

[banzai510(hainz)]

I lay money its a 1/8 BSP in the block remember the J motor are english copys

 

 

a good part store or Autometer has adapters

[datzenmike]

Too much over thinking here.

 

This is what you need if you have the oil pressure gauge with the plastic or brass line. If you have an electronic sensor remove the brass 90 degree elbow and screw into the fitting. It's a 1/8 BPT to 1/8 NPT adapter.

(photo courtesy of Hainz)

[XXL]

OK, I'm out.

 

Turn out my oil pressure problem is REAL.  I had a small puddle under the truck this morning when I backed out of the garage.  I climbed under as best I could and am seeing oil dripping down at the back of the motor.  It LOOKS LIKE it may just be coming from the corner oil pan bolt, and the rolling down to the center of the back of the motor before dripping to the ground.  I drove onto ramps, sprayed everything down with brake cleaner, wiped it clean, and gave each bolt on the oil pan a good snug (they were all definitely "loose" be any standard, so I gave them maybe 5-6 ft#... just by feel... I didn't want to squeeze out the gasket or, worse, break a bolt).  I'm going to give it a while and go check for fresh leaks.  Fingers crossed!

 

If it isn't solved, I am going to need some recommendations from you guys for a capable, honest, knowledgeable mechanic in the SF East Bay area who can figure out the problem and fix it (pan gasket, rear seal, whatever).  Unfortunately, I do not have the physical ability to actually do a fix of this type.  If you have any recommendations in my area, please PM me! 

 

 

 

 

[XXL]

For anyone interested on my oil issue posted above, it looks like I should have gone with my initial instinct.  I originally though I had a bad sender because of THE WAY the idiot light was turning on and off, flickering, and turning ON when I blipped the throttle (where you would expect oil pressure to go UP, not down).  Today, I finally found a sending unit--- Intermotor #PS171, which has 1/8" BST threads as datzenmike stated above.  

 

So... what I think happened was pretty simple... the sender started going bad.  When it first started lighting up, I did the right thing and pulled off the highway to check it out.  I checked the dipstick and it was showing "low."  So, I added a quart of oil to bring the dipstick up.  Unfortunately, the reason it was showing low is probably because the oil had not yet drained back down into the pan.  So, I essentially OVERfilled it (in an engine that holds less than 4 quarts!)... so the new leak that came out of nowhere is probably because it was overfull, and so the oil line in the pan was now ABOVE the gasket line... so it just wicked through the old cork gasket where it could and began dripping.  I picked up a gasket set off of ebay, so I am going to replace the pan gasket as soon as I get a chance.  I'm also going to add some spreader washers to the pan bolts since those flimsy pans tend to dimple at the bolt holes. 

 

That is all.

[oldskoolvws]

I tell this to everyone. You may want to consider this over a cork gasket. It's pretty much king of the hill, with the only other closest being Hondabond or Yamabond.

 

Pretty much eliminate the cork gasket, apply a generous bead of this. It will never leak again...in my experience. Also used for pretty much anything motor. They have FIPG in orange which is your transmission grade product. I skimmed a cork gasket once with this, big mistake. The cork blew out. Lesson learned. Just straight product and done.

 

[XXL]

I tell this to everyone. You may want to consider this over a cork gasket. It's pretty much king of the hill, with the only other closest being Hondabond or Yamabond.

 

Pretty much eliminate the cork gasket, apply a generous bead of this. It will never leak again...in my experience. Also used for pretty much anything motor. They have FIPG in orange which is your transmission grade product. I skimmed a cork gasket once with this, big mistake. The cork blew out. Lesson learned. Just straight product and done.

 

 

 

I'm willing to give it a try.  What is "generous?"  And shouid I let it dry completely, or tack up, or bolt the pan up wet?  It doesn't look like the product comes with any instructions on use :(

 

I did some googling, and the consensus seems to be that this is similar to (or maybe even the same thing as) Permatex Right Stuff, and that people are using it INSTEAD OF any gasket material (so, not as a "tacking agent" between cork and metal like one might do to keep a cork or fiber gasket in place while installing.)

[lostforawhile]

All Nissan oil senders and the block threads are 1/8" BSP (British Standard Pipe) thread. I believe they were used through 2000 and may still even be used today.

 

What you want is an adapter from 1/8 BSP to 1/8 NPTF. Your after market sender will either thread into it or you can at least get another NPTF thread adapter for it. In the picture below (tks Hainz) it has an elbow fitting for the tube type oil pressure gauge.

 

 

 

 

 

Why the BSP instead of metric thread????? Well after WW II Nissan was modernizing and got into bed with the British firm of Austin and was contracted to build/assemble one of their cars under license, the Austin A40, for sale in Japan... which they did. This gave them access to patents and designs which the Japanese are so good at copying imitating, but also adding the all important improvements that make it so much better than the original. This is why the A series can trade parts with the MG engine. One of the things that Nissan kept was the old 1/8 BSP thread for the oil sender.

.

same with Honda, they all use it and it's BSPT, which is tapered pipe, it's almost the same as 1/8 NPT but with one thread difference, you can also get that same adapter from MSC direct for under 5 bucks, thats where I get all mine, the carb threads also use 1/8 BSPT, for the vents and I believe for the fuel inlets if you want to use braided line, I modified a set of Z bowl tops because I didnt have room for the adapters on the inlets, mine now have 1/8 npt fuel inlets 

[lostforawhile]

if you need a switch order one for a 86-89 accord, and probabably every other early Honda they all use BSPT threads, I've fixed many oil filter bases for guys who tried to thread in an NPT sender into the base on their cars, holes usually has to get tigged back up, and then I have the  correct tap for the 1/8 BSPT threads,I wonder what other parts Honda copied off of datsun, it's interesting that the early iron blocks,which are completly different then later honda stuff, copy the same letter designation system you guys use 

[XXL]

 

 

 

I bought a tube of this off of fleabay... will give it a shot on my pan.

[oldskoolvws]

I'm willing to give it a try.  What is "generous?"  And shouid I let it dry completely, or tack up, or bolt the pan up wet?  It doesn't look like the product comes with any instructions on use :(

 

I did some googling, and the consensus seems to be that this is similar to (or maybe even the same thing as) Permatex Right Stuff, and that people are using it INSTEAD OF any gasket material (so, not as a "tacking agent" between cork and metal like one might do to keep a cork or fiber gasket in place while installing.)

 A good solid bead is all you need. It will tack somewhat quick, but has a good working time...like 15-20 minutes. Don't put so much that when you tighten down the pan it oozes everywhere..especially in the pan. When you get done torquing, there should be about a 1/16" to 1/8" ooze bead all the way around. Let this dry solid. Your done.