banzai510(hainz) Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 I dont know if this adds anything but but I had some 280zx Konis installed on my 510 struts. of coarse I had the strut cut down to the 280zx length. But I notice on the cartridge its self there is a spacer/standoff welded on the bottom. Maybe one could cut that off and make the cartridge shorter. or maybe the cartridge casing could break and leak fluid. GR2s are just a replacement shock from KYB and best to get a better brand or a better KYB. Having a stiff spring and a lame GR2 kinda defeats the purpose. Quote Link to comment
DRIVEN Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 I run cheap KYB MR2 inserts in cut down 510 housings with cut down stock (I think) 510 springs. It rides OK but I wouldn't take it to the track. In reference to the spacer on the bottom that Hainz referred to; I accidentally cut my housings about 1/4" too short and ended up trimming off the "cup" spacers with no ill effects. Mike mentioned in his thread that those spacers might be so that one insert can be used for several applications by adding different spacers to the bottom. Whether that is true or not, it makes sense. Quote Link to comment
PurePontiacKid Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Aight, here's what I used: Koni PN#: 86 1919 fits all models of '75-'89 Rabbits and Sciroccos. and this is how they compare to Z31/S130 stuff: reds are obviously Koni's lol the upper Tokico HP's are Z31 300ZX front struts (the shorter of the blue ones) the lower Tokico HP's are S130 280ZX front struts (the longer of the blue ones) Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Pontiac kid. Does the VW cap that holds the cartridge down the same as a nissan or does one need to find a cap? I will assume metric threading? Or doesn one need to find a strut tube(top portion to weld on the nissan strut? Quote Link to comment
mklotz70 Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 This info should get added to the strut mod thread for unity :) Quote Link to comment
PurePontiacKid Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 Pontiac kid. Does the VW cap that holds the cartridge down the same as a nissan or does one need to find a cap? I will assume metric threading? Or doesn one need to find a strut tube(top portion to weld on the nissan strut? huh what? you mean the gland nut? The Koni's came with washers to put between the nut and the insert, but I didn't realize I had those until I had sectioned the tubes already and couldn't fit them in. Everything seems to be working fine though, the car drives straight, etc. here is a comparison between stock tube and not: I did have to drill the upper mount hold a bit larger to fit the shock rod (lol can't think of the name) and use some spacers to take up the gap between the nut and the mount, but all of this should be fixed when/if I get camber plates. Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 yes the Gland Nut the holds the cartridge in. I assume this nuts come with the koni cartridge and kits the nissan threaded tube? lets see more photos of these struts as you progress. I lked up a 75-89 koni insert and they gave difeerent part #s and 86-1919 Quote Link to comment
jefe de jefes Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 MR2's are 2" shorter than stock 510. I just cut mine down last week. got a part #? Quote Link to comment
Chris#51EPGraham Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Has anyone looked into or tried changing the oil in the strut? There's a link on my strut mod thread that takes you to a VW shop where they were shortening the inserts....and they give an idea on changing the oil. You can buy the shock oil at a motorcycle shop. I don't know what stock oil specs are, but if you could get something a bit thicker.....wouldn't that make it stiffer? I've done just what you described with stock "wet" cartridges using heavier oil, autocrossed on it the damping worked great. The OEM shock oil is watery thin, guessing 5w or 10w; stock spring rate is around 80 lb/in. I was running 350 lb/in coilovers and used 30w motorcycle fork oil. The heavier oil had the desired effect of stiffer damping for a stiffer spring. Reason I removed this setup was to fix one of the cartridges not seating right that I caused by using the wrong choice of 0-ring thickness. I intended to reinstall these struts and never got around to it. Quote Link to comment
DRIVEN Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 got a part #? 1986 MR2 rear strut cartridge KYB #363046 One other note on using this insert; There is a stepped down portion at the top (barely visible in the picture). Since the insert diameter is smaller than the inside of the strut housing, I used a short 3/4" scrap of exhaust tubing as a centering spacer to keep the shaft from rubbing the edge of the hole in the gland nut. Hope that makes sense. Quote Link to comment
Yakuza Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 I just did this swap on my 510 wagon. Yes the entire strut [brakes & all] bolts on but...to run the 510 spring youll need to remove the 510 spring perch & weld that to the ZX struts. Or...run coilovers. It's reccomended that you run bump steer spacers w/ the ZX struts to keep the suspension geometry close to factory.BTW the spacers should come with longer bolts, if not youll need them. AS far as moving the wheelbase inwards im not sure. The stock 510 brake line DOES thread into the ZX caliper. Also youll need to run at least a 14 inch rim to clear the ZX calipers. True... Quote Link to comment
Bears510 Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 Has anyone looked into or tried changing the oil in the strut? There's a link on my strut mod thread that takes you to a VW shop where they were shortening the inserts....and they give an idea on changing the oil. You can buy the shock oil at a motorcycle shop. I don't know what stock oil specs are, but if you could get something a bit thicker.....wouldn't that make it stiffer? Hey Mike. I would have to assume you are right about adding a thicker oil making the shock stiffer as it's the same idea when you are setting up shocks for R/C cars..you use a thicker/thinner oil to change the dampening on those and it can REALLY change the way a car handles...would be cool to have a couple of sets ready to go and make a tech day out of it...you know...see which one is the best set up for a given application instead of having to buy different shocks for different apps. Quote Link to comment
mklotz70 Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 Would be interesting. I doubt I'll be doing anything with struts anytime soon, but it would be cool to have a couple of sets and change up the oil. I'm not much of a "track day" guy....I'd rather put one set in and run them for a week, then swap them out. 99% of daily driving isn't anything like track conditions....I'd like to see what the difference feels like when you take your mind off the struts.....when you hit that same bump everyday. :) Quote Link to comment
Laecaon Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 Going on with the strut swap, I was wondering if the brake booster needed to be upgraded in order to use the ZX brakes. Would I want to take the booster off the car I got the struts from(280zx booster)? Quote Link to comment
ohpyramids Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 super good info here. thanks. whats the lowest a stock length 280zx strut can go with coilovers? im not sure if chopping the 280 struts down will be worth the time and hassle. (dont have a welder in LA). 1 Quote Link to comment
mklotz70 Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Going on with the strut swap, I was wondering if the brake booster needed to be upgraded in order to use the ZX brakes. Would I want to take the booster off the car I got the struts from(280zx booster)? the 510's are really light....I doubt you'll need the booster. I run the disc upgrade on the trucks without a booster. Quote Link to comment
DatsunMotorSports Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Here is my run-down: 280zx front struts 1981-1983 ZX You can try 1978-1981 ZX as well, but they may have been equiped with slightly different brakes than the later ones. Someone with have to clarify this! MR2 strut aftermarket inserts dotn know what year. It was like a BZ1085 or something (dont hold me to it) The ZX struts and inserts were for the ZX which is a much heavier vehicle than the 510. So as for the valving its already incorrect for the 510. The MR2 weighs in close to the 510, but is still heavier. So I went with MR2 Tokico Illuminas. They are just slightly to short for the ZX strut. I ended up drilling out the spot welds on the top of the supplied strut cap for the MR2 to remove the nut-like plate and shoving that cap inside the ZX cap to make a spacer and it also helped center the insert into the tube. As far as tube degree I have no idea as I havent had a chance to use an alignment machine to determine if there was a change. I can confirm that the ZX hub pulls the rim/tires in more than the factor 510 hub. I was going nuts trying to figure out why the stock 510 hub was pushing the tires so far out in the front and leaving me with so much positive camber as to destroy the outside of the tires... I mean so much positive camber still after removing 3.5 coils from the stock coil spring. That just shouldn't happen. With the ZX strut though I cant see much positive camber there anymore. There is some, but its much better. There is not gain or loss in length between the ZX and MR2 strut inserts. Its less than a 1/4". Its about valving for the vehicle weight. I never liked the way the ZX handled or the 510 for that matter. My Z's will run circles around them in stock form. The MR2 being closer in weight seemed like a more logical choice over the ZX and I am satisfied with the results. 14"+ wheels are required to clear ZX calipers I also looked into Cosmo Racing for coil overs. For $125 they will ship a coil over kit for just the front of a 510. 280ft/lb springs and price is for their "EVOII" kit which is the racing kit. 280 is the lightest spring available. I have not noticed any problems running the stock brake master cylinder with no booster with the ZX front brakes. I saw that most of this was covered in previous posts. Quote Link to comment
Stupid_fast Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Here is my run-down: 280zx front struts 1981-1983 ZX You can try 1978-1981 ZX as well, but they may have been equiped with slightly different brakes than the later ones. Someone with have to clarify this! MR2 strut aftermarket inserts dotn know what year. It was like a BZ1085 or something (dont hold me to it) The ZX struts and inserts were for the ZX which is a much heavier vehicle than the 510. So as for the valving its already incorrect for the 510. The MR2 weighs in close to the 510, but is still heavier. So I went with MR2 Tokico Illuminas. They are just slightly to short for the ZX strut. I ended up drilling out the spot welds on the top of the supplied strut cap for the MR2 to remove the nut-like plate and shoving that cap inside the ZX cap to make a spacer and it also helped center the insert into the tube. As far as tube degree I have no idea as I havent had a chance to use an alignment machine to determine if there was a change. I can confirm that the ZX hub pulls the rim/tires in more than the factor 510 hub. I was going nuts trying to figure out why the stock 510 hub was pushing the tires so far out in the front and leaving me with so much positive camber as to destroy the outside of the tires... I mean so much positive camber still after removing 3.5 coils from the stock coil spring. That just shouldn't happen. With the ZX strut though I cant see much positive camber there anymore. There is some, but its much better. There is not gain or loss in length between the ZX and MR2 strut inserts. Its less than a 1/4". Its about valving for the vehicle weight. I never liked the way the ZX handled or the 510 for that matter. My Z's will run circles around them in stock form. The MR2 being closer in weight seemed like a more logical choice over the ZX and I am satisfied with the results. 14"+ wheels are required to clear ZX calipers I also looked into Cosmo Racing for coil overs. For $125 they will ship a coil over kit for just the front of a 510. 280ft/lb springs and price is for their "EVOII" kit which is the racing kit. 280 is the lightest spring available. I have not noticed any problems running the stock brake master cylinder with no booster with the ZX front brakes. I saw that most of this was covered in previous posts. These coilovers I got with my 510 have Tokico BZ3099 inserts(87-89 MR-2). These are at maximum height, so they are great for getting your car really low. Hope that helps... edit, the BZ1085's are for the 87-89 MR-2 fronts, BZ3099's are the rear which are the ones you would want for a coilover setup. At least thats what I've got on mine! Quote Link to comment
Pineapplegti Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 A couple questions.. Will 13x7 american racing Libres fit over zx brakes ? Also can you fellas post up a over all length of your shortened strut assemblies with springs installed ? The lower the car the better. Oh how about a inside diameter of the housing too.. Quote Link to comment
Pineapplegti Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 Just got off the phone with Raceland..and getting some info on the wrx coils they offer.. The bottomof the coilover is threaded.. I plan to make a steel adapter that would slide into a very cut down 510 shock tube that i will bolt and weld into place that will have a threaded receiver for the coilover to thread into.. Cant wait to get the measurements :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment
INDY510 Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 Why? Why?....... and why?................. you can get coilovers that fit 510 struts......... . I used my stock 510 struts,,, then shortened them ~2 inches..... and re-threaded the top of the strut tube With a 4.5" coilover collar.... . I can put the front crossmember on the ground (I know you already commented on how low my car is,, and how you'd be worried about the tires hitting the flares) That WRX coilover idea is NOT SAFE.......... the entire wieght of your car is held up by a 40 yr old strut tube that has been structurally compromised,,, and joined with a more noble metal......... you can't just bolt on a spindle with a 3 inch strut tube.... . ... Why are you trying to re-invent the wheel?...... .. 510's can accept numerous donor struts,,, and they can all be shortened safely without having a weak point at the bottom of the strut tube [/endrant] And WRX top-hats will NOT work on a 510............ ;) 2 Quote Link to comment
Pineapplegti Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 I am not threading the 510 strut tubes.... i will have a billet steel adapter that will act like the bottom of the strut inserted in the housing with a bolt through it and then welded at the top (maybe a couple of plug welds too) on the other side of the adapter will be the threads that the coilover will thread into... Let me fail.. i enjoy doing it :D Its only 500 bucks and a couple hours playing on the lathe. Quote Link to comment
INDY510 Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 Only $500 eh? Do you realize you could shorten your 510 struts (fun with lathe), add coilovers ($200), camber plates ($180),, , and some good short shocks (tokico $130-160) Then you'd be done,,, and you can go lower than you'd ever want to............. and you'd be driving on a set-up that has been proven to work for the last 30 years Quote Link to comment
Pineapplegti Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 Yeah.. i hear ya.. In the end i might end up with that setup.. whats it gonna hurt trying this way first ? BTW i love your car.. :D.. I was just commenting that i would be terrified on cracking the fiberglass once she has color on it.. You are a man after my own heart. Quote Link to comment
280zx2by2 Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 whats it gonna hurt trying this way first ? Your wallet? You could just send me the $500 and pretend you did the suby suspension setup. :) Quote Link to comment
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