Hazards of taking a coil off the front springs?

[Spades]

So, I have been looking at ways to lower the front of my 510 wagon slightly without buying coil overs. Since I spent my money on new shocks and stock replacement parts(as well as new calipers,pads,ect), I really don't want to buy 200sx stuff or coil overs and start all over, wasting all the money I already spent.

 

I only want to lower the nose about an inch or two to get rid of the positive camber. After I swapped the Z20S in my wagon and put everything back together, the front sits high enough to give the car very noticable positive camber. the camber isnt adjustable, and the gap between the tires and fender is huge.

 

Anyway, I am wondering if I can take half a coil or a coil off the front springs and call it a day. I am running new monroe sensatracs on the front. I dont go blasting around, the car doesn't have to handle great, and I am very carefull when going over bumps or into driveways.

 

should I get a stiffer spring to begin with(like a spring from a 80s nissan sentra), or will I have to worry about bottoming out regardless of spring rate?

 

I don't really hot rod the car around because I want it to last a while, hell, I still have so much work to do with it...it has a long way to go before it is finished.

 

anyone able to tell me if I will have problems regardless of how carefully I drive it?

[510-Trevor]

There are a couple other ways to lower the front using all the stock parts (almost)

The first is to change over to 280zx strut bearings and cut the rubber isolater off.

The other is to cut off the stock spring perch as low as possible on the perch. Grind off the remander of the perch from the strut, then use a bolted collar to support the perch at a lower location.

ref thread: http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13156&p=135808&hilit=clamp#p135808

 

You can cut the front springs, but start small. I would go with a quarter or half half first.

[Spades]

Well, if cutting a quarter or half of a coil off will not result in harm(provided it isn't ever autocrossed or driven hard), I would rather not go to the work of cutting and rewelding, and then using a tube clamp on the spring perches. If by cutting half a coil off it will render the front suspension prone to damage, I would look into a lowering spring or lowering the perches.

 

Does anyone know if taking half a coil off the bottom is a bad idea? would it lower the car a inch or two so the camber is back to stock?

[Guest kamakazi620]

If yer camber is f'd up get an Alignment cutting half a coil will NOT fix your camber.If you want to lower an inch for cheep run smaller front tires.I have read your posts and it seems to me theres something F'd in you front suspension,you have installed new front end parts and now your cambers F'd,I say go to a shop and let them look at it.

[ggzilla]

To adjust camber from the stock zero/positive to a more modern negative -- lowering the front is NOT the solution. Adjusting the camber is. Yes, lowering has a slight effect on camber but is not necessary for changing camber.

[sssr20det510]

Cut springs ride like shit

[OpelWagenGT]

There are a couple other ways to lower the front using all the stock parts (almost)

The first is to change over to 280zx strut bearings and cut the rubber isolater off.

The other is to cut off the stock spring perch as low as possible on the perch. Grind off the remander of the perch from the strut, then use a bolted collar to support the perch at a lower location.

ref thread: http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13156&p=135808&hilit=clamp#p135808

 

You can cut the front springs, but start small. I would go with a quarter or half half first.

 

Do you know if this method works with 1200 struts?

[ariascarlos1990]

Cut springs ride like shit

 

indeed.

[ggzilla]

Cut springs ride fine. Cut springs too much and it is a problem. Lowering the car 3" by any method rides terrible, using custom springs can help a bit. If you lower the car 1" from stock, it ride fine.

 

 

Yes, you can do that with a 1200, it's just McPherson strut like nearly all other Datsun and Nissan cars. Here's the writeup: http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=Lowering

[Spades]

ok, well...can anyone enlighten me on how you compensate for severe positive camber on a 1972 datsun 510 wagon? cause uh...I don't see the room for that kind of an adjustment.

 

Granted, I am not the best mechanic out there, so, I had a few other mechanics where I work look at it. We don't normally work on stuff this old(at least that is a japanese import)...but we were all stumped on how to make up for this much positive camber.

 

Also, what could I have done to the suspension when replacing suspension bushings(ect), turnplates, struts, and full brakes that would have added several inches to ride height? other than the engine swap and the parts I listed...strut assemblies and parts and front end are stock.

 

The Z20S is sitting very close to the firewall, and the core support was notched and re-enforced and I am running a manual transmission instead of the factory automatic, but everyone is telling me the swap weighs more than the L16 and auto would have, so at this point I am open to suggestions on what I may have done wrong.

 

P.S. I am not talking about heating the springs, or taking 2 coils out...I am talking about cutting half a coil off...thats not going to change the spring rate THAT much...nor would it bottom out much more than stock...I was just wanting to know if anyone had taken a coil off and how it drove afterwards.

 

P.S.P.S. the camber is FAR from zero right now...so uh...not seeing how to fix the issue with a "front end alignment"...short of dropping it a bit or trying to find a camber plate, I dont see the solution to this...I already took it to a alignment shop nearby and asked if there was something I was missing. They said they wouldnt be able to adjust it...

[sssr20det510]

Cut springs ride fine. Cut springs too much and it is a problem. Lowering the car 3" by any method rides terrible, using custom springs can help a bit. If you lower the car 1" from stock, it ride fine.

 

 

Yes, you can do that with a 1200, it's just McPherson strut like nearly all other Datsun and Nissan cars. Here's the writeup: http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=Lowering

You can lower a car 3 inches and if done right it will still ride good. If you cut the springs it raises the spring rate and can make the car ride like crap. 1 coil usually won't make too much of a differance but more than that can. It all depends on the springs and shocks

[sssr20det510]

So it didn't have this problem before you replaced the parts on the front end?

[HRH]

We need pictures to see what you mean by extreme negative camber.

 

And yeah, cutting coils is fine as long as you don't do too much. Like the rear springs on my 510 are cut race springs to get the open coil on the bottom. I only cut off about 2 coils, and it rides fine. But it's a 12" spring to begin with, and it's a higher rate than stock, but that was the rate to get to replicate the rally suspension.

 

This may be a dumb question, but you did roll it around, back and forth, after you jacked it up, right? If you haven't, go do that, as the car hasn't settled after being lifted off the ground.

[ggzilla]

Yes, 510s and most other modern Datsun cars, have non-adjustable front camber. There's not supposed to be an adjustment except for toe-in.

 

can anyone enlighten me on how you compensate for severe negative camber on a 1972 datsun 510 wagon

- Put the stock parts back on. Perhaps someone fit Z-car struts which have a different angle.

- If they are all stock, find out which parts are bent and replace them.

 

This will remove all negative camber and restore your 510 wagon to the original zero-camber or slightly positive camber.

[Spades]

It sat high in the front and had positive camber before I started, yes...but with a gutted car with no engine, transmission, or interior...I kind of expected that.

 

After the swap was all done and the front was in the nose bleed section of ride height, I assumed that the swap either weighed less or it was because I shifted the weight back further.

 

I first looked for ways to adjust height and set the camber, and after I drew a blank and so did a local alignment shop, I started asking here and contemplating getting lowering springs or cutting on the stock springs.

 

So, did it ride high before the modifications 30+ years ago when it had the original engine and transmission? I don't know.

 

this is a pic of how I found it, gives an idea of fender gap:

 

[Spades]

I have put 100 miles on it since the last time it was in the air on a lift. so yeah...it was REALLY positive before it settled. I will see if I have time to get some pictures tomarrow.

 

I doubt someone put differant strut tubes on it...i mean, the brakes and everything else are all stock 510 parts, and the car only had 30k miles on it before the former owner blew up the transmission and it sat in a california field for 25+ years...nothing looked bent, broken, or damaged...it all looked stock and in good shape.

 

EDIT: here is a pic I do have:

 

[sssr20det510]

Cutting 1 coil prob won't lower it enough to make any changes, prob would only lower it an inch

[ggzilla]

Stock factory ride height was high (some say nose-bleed high) ... fender gap doesn't really tell the story unless you are running stock diameter tires.

 

Better to measure headlight height from ground to center of headlights. What is yours?

[Spades]

Stock factory ride height was high (some say nose-bleed high) ... fender gap doesn't really tell the story unless you are running stock diameter tires.

 

Better to measure headlight height from ground to center of headlights. What is yours?

 

 

I will grab a measurement tomarrow...what is the hieght supposed to be? I know the camber is positive regardless, the tires arent even wearing on the inner edges, all the wear from the last 100 miles has been on the outer edge and middle of the tire :(

[ggzilla]

Yes, stock 510s should have positive camber. To adjust it any other way you can fit camber plates, have a specialist bend the strut tubes, use elongated/slotted LCA bolt holes or do what Datsun Competition suggested and slot the three upper strut mount holes.

[bonvo]

i dont think it does any harm unless you go to low you got to low yo will start blowing the shocks in the struts im not sure how much was taken out of my springs as they were cut before i got the car i have no wheel well gap i would guess that there is 2.5 coils taken out of mine

[ratty510]

bonvo how does your car ride with cut springs?

[bonvo]

not to bad really its a little bouncy on the rougher roads but for the most part i like it the car handles better to

[Spades]

yeah...I just looked at my tires today...the outsides are almost to the cords...I have driven it 150 miles and my brand new tires are shredded...

 

I don't know whats going on, but this saturday I am ripping the front end apart and dropping a coil out of the springs.

 

if that isnt enough to drop it and fix the camber, I am going to cut, lower, and re-weld and tube clamp the spring perches. If that still doesnt fix it, im getting some camber plates.

[DISLEXICDIME]

yeah...I just looked at my tires today...the outsides are almost to the cords...I have driven it 150 miles and my brand new tires are shredded...

 

I don't know whats going on, but this saturday I am ripping the front end apart and dropping a coil out of the springs.

 

if that isnt enough to drop it and fix the camber, I am going to cut, lower, and re-weld and tube clamp the spring perches. If that still doesnt fix it, im getting some camber plates.

what year is your wagon again?