Lowering the front without coilovers?

[Spades]

my 72 510 station wagon has a couple extra inches of ride height in the front, I assume because the engine I swapped in was a bit lighter and moved much closer to the firewall than its old L16.

 

I want to lower the nose a bit, but considering that I already bought and installed new struts and other goodies for the factory suspension, I was wanting to just find a stiffer spring and shorten it.

 

I have read that the rear springs from a late 80's nissan sentra are a non-progressive rate spring that is the same diameter and should bolt into place, and has a stiffer spring rate than the factory 510 front springs. if they are close to the same, I would cut a coil or two off, and hopefully lower my 72' 510 station wagon by a couple inches and have a stiff enough spring to keep handling good and from bottoming out.

 

anyone on this site ever tried such a swap? I can get a set of new 89 sentra springs for $40, so of they will fit it would be a great score.

 

If anyone knows why this potential swap wouldn't work, does anyone know of a place to buy some lowering springs for just the front of a 72 510 wagon?

 

thanks in advance for the help!

[racecar68dad]

If you want to lower your car and have a stiffer spring, you cut the original springs the amount you think you need and reinstall.. A coil spring gets stiffer as it gets shorter. I learned this trying to lower the rear of my 510 racecar.. You need to be careful, If you lower too much you might bottom out the strut.

Therre are other ways to do this, reposition the spring seats, shorten the struts and use shorter cartridges.

The way I first described is the cheapest way to try and get what you want.

Any other ideas out there? Feel free to jump on this idea

[Spades]

Well, I really don't want to cut the stock springs unless I have no other option. Stock parts for this car have been a nightmare to find, so I would rather butcher and easy to find aftermarket part or a part from a more readily available car.

 

whats worse, if I do mis-judge and take off too much of the factory spring, I have just screwed myself.

 

the car is so high in the front, it has massive positive camber, and is already destroying a new set of front tires in the 200 miles I have put on it in the last few months.

 

anyone else have another option besides cutting the factory springs?

[datto510]

You could lower the spring perches with some collar clamps like this.

 

[DISLEXICDIME]

the only way to properly lower a 510 is to shorten the strut tube. If I was trying to do it cheep I would lower the perch and and cut the strut tube 40mm and use a cheap vw rabbit insert. Or if i was really trying to be cheep( not recommended) I would cut only one coil and stiffen up the stock shock's by putting a thicker oil in the front shock tube. A 510 with cut front springs suck's they bottom out and handle like shit! plus after a while you will notice your shell will start to creek when it flex's ( pulling in your drive way) from the harsh road conditions you will encounter(pot holes). Then after a while your dash will start to rattle from all the vibration caused by bottoming out.

[DISLEXICDIME]

my 72 510 station wagon has a couple extra inches of ride height in the front, I assume because the engine I swapped in was a bit lighter and moved much closer to the firewall than its old L16.

 

I want to lower the nose a bit, but considering that I already bought and installed new struts and other goodies for the factory suspension, I was wanting to just find a stiffer spring and shorten it.

 

I have read that the rear springs from a early to mid 80's nissan sentra are a non-progressive rate spring that is the same diameter and should bolt into place, and has a stiffer spring rate than the factory 510 front springs. if they are close to the same, I would cut a coil or two off, and hopefully lower my 72' 510 station wagon by a couple inches and have a stiff enough spring to keep handling good and from bottoming out.

 

anyone on this site ever tried such a swap? I can get a set of new 84 sentra springs for $40, so of they will fit it would be a great score.

 

If anyone knows why this potential swap wouldn't work, does anyone know of a place to buy some lowering springs for just the front of a 72 510 wagon?

 

thanks in advance for the help!

 

what engine did you put in ? I notice under your avatar it says z20s. a z20s ways more then a l16. if you did put a z20s in what other suspension parts did you change?

[Jason]

my 72 510 station wagon has a couple extra inches of ride height in the front, I assume because the engine I swapped in was a bit lighter and moved much closer to the firewall than its old L16.

 

I want to lower the nose a bit, but considering that I already bought and installed new struts and other goodies for the factory suspension, I was wanting to just find a stiffer spring and shorten it.

 

I have read that the rear springs from a early to mid 80's nissan sentra are a non-progressive rate spring that is the same diameter and should bolt into place, and has a stiffer spring rate than the factory 510 front springs. if they are close to the same, I would cut a coil or two off, and hopefully lower my 72' 510 station wagon by a couple inches and have a stiff enough spring to keep handling good and from bottoming out.

 

anyone on this site ever tried such a swap? I can get a set of new 84 sentra springs for $40, so of they will fit it would be a great score.

 

If anyone knows why this potential swap wouldn't work, does anyone know of a place to buy some lowering springs for just the front of a 72 510 wagon?

 

thanks in advance for the help!

 

If I remember this correctly the springs from the Sentra you can use for the stock 510 strut is from the rear of a 88-92 Sentra Hatchback and they should be 5.04" in diameter with a 12.75" free height and a 123lb/in spring rate, about 40% stiffer than stock.

[DISLEXICDIME]

oh i forgot you can also put early 200sx struts and brake with the 200sx top hats it will lower the front and give you a bigger front rotor

[Spades]

I went from a l16 with an automatic to a z20s with a manual. in the swap the engine was moved much closer to the firewall, and I am assuming that the weight was shifted to the rear even if the swap was the same weight or heavier.

 

the suspension parts that were replaced were OEM parts with the exception of the front struts, which are Monroe Sensatracs.

 

it sits about 2 inches higher in the front than it did with the factory struts and l16. the camber is VERY positive.

 

one of the reasons I wanted stiffer springs was to prevent the car from bottoming out on potholes, ect.

 

Can anyone else back up or verify the sentra spring information?

 

here is where i saw it: http://www.the510realm.com/tech/suspension/frontspringguide/

 

 

and this was the info on the springs I was interested in:

 

Spring Diameter - 5.04

Wire Diameter - .485

Load Rating - 123lb/in

Free Height - 12.75 (approx)

Load Height - 8.50 (approx)

Application - '88-'92 Nissan Sentra (rear)

[Jason]

I went from a l16 with an automatic to a z20s with a manual. in the swap the engine was moved much closer to the firewall, and I am assuming that the weight was shifted to the rear even if the swap was the same weight or heavier.

 

the suspension parts that were replaced were OEM parts with the exception of the front struts, which are Monroe Sensatracs.

 

it sits about 2 inches higher in the front than it did with the factory struts and l16. the camber is VERY positive.

 

one of the reasons I wanted stiffer springs was to prevent the car from bottoming out on potholes, ect.

 

Can anyone else back up or verify the sentra spring information?

 

here is where i saw it: http://www.the510realm.com/tech/suspension/frontspringguide/

 

 

and this was the info on the springs I was interested in:

 

Spring Diameter - 5.04

Wire Diameter - .485

Load Rating - 123lb/in

Free Height - 12.75 (approx)

Load Height - 8.50 (approx)

Application - '88-'92 Nissan Sentra (rear)

 

Chris's guide is where I got my information from so you should be good. I'd try them uncut first and see how it rides, these are a couple of inches lower than the stock springs in terms of free height.

[Spades]

this is the info for the springs from Napa's website for the springs mentioned:

 

part# 277-3187

 

# Coil Spring Coils : 6.45

Coil Spring Free Height : 12.75"

Coil Spring I.D. : 4.557"

Coil Spring Load Height : 9.5"

Coil Spring Type : Two Square Ends

Design Load : 390

Spring Rate : 123

Wire Diameter : .485"

 

this is the info on the stock springs:

 

Stock Datsun:

Spring Diameter - 5.11

Wire Diameter - .472

Load Rating - 89lb/in

Free Height - 14.25 (approx)

Load Height - 8.35 (approx)

 

so, the springs have a 2" lower unloaded weight, but over an inch higher loaded weight. so, I am thinking about taking 1/2 of a coil out and bringing them down to 6 coils. anyone else have any thoughts?

[banzai510(hainz)]

If anything the Z 20 should weigh more.

If you put a gas shock on this it can raise the car up a bit.

 

I dont get how moving it back a inch or so can raise this up that much. as there wasnt that much room to move it back in the first place

 

stock 510 springs are worth nothing I say cut them or find a set already cut up. But remember depending on year(71 having the long strut it will have already the shorter spring) you can only cut so much before you ride on the bump stops any way.

 

one thing I could see happeing if you have a long strut and put on a short strut spring 68-69 on(the spring is really longer) that where this happened.

[Spades]

If anything the Z 20 should weigh more.

If you put a gas shock on this it can raise the car up a bit.

 

I dont get how moving it back a inch or so can raise this up that much. as there wasnt that much room to move it back in the first place

 

stock 510 springs are worth nothing I say cut them or find a set already cut up. But remember depending on year(71 having the long strut it will have already the shorter spring) you can only cut so much before you ride on the bump stops any way.

 

one thing I could see happeing if you have a long strut and put on a short strut spring 68-69 on(the spring is really longer) that where this happened.

 

 

they aren't gas shocks, oil filled cartriges. Part Number 73962...Sensa-trac from Monroe, should be for a 72 Datsun 510 wagon.

 

I kind of doubt the springs would be from a earlier car, as my wagon had been in a field for 25ish years...the lady that owned it previously blew the automatic transmission up at 30k miles, and it was parked in her dads field without a transmission or driveline untill I bought it last year.

 

either way, it is sitting too high in the front and the camber is very positive. as far as I know there is no way to adjust ride height or camber, so if installing my naps z20s toward the rear of the car with a 1" gap from engine to firewall didnt affect the ride height, then I am not sure what would have.

 

P.S. the reason I am looking at springs other than stock is mainly because I am hoping for a stiffer spring rate so I have less chance of hitting the bump stops.

[JDM510]

i have some aftermarket drop springs for the 510 front they worked pretty good on my datsun befor i swaped to the 280sx swap... ill take like 40 plus shipping for the front pair!!!

 

pm me for pics of how it sat and if you like em... buy em and be done...

 

 

other wise go to the junk yard get some 1982 280zx struts and brakes go home take off the bottom spring perch then go on parts geak and get kyb gr2 struts for the 280zx and then go to techno toy tunning and get their DIY coioverf kit and have at it SIMPLE

 

^^ with that set up your car will sit lower then you want and ride perfect....

 

i think people dont relize you dont have to go vw insert unless you want it SUPPER low

 

heres my car on stock lenght 280zx struts and coilovers its at it lowest setting befor it rides crappy (any lower it bounces off the bumps)... right where its at is such a nice ride!!!

 

[ariascarlos1990]

are those 15's on that car?

[JDM510]

yes

[ariascarlos1990]

sweet thanks.

[Spades]

Next month when I have the $ I plan to take my front springs off and get some measurements and order a set of sentra springs...I will be able to let you folks know if the dimensions listed on that website are correct...worst case scenario, I will measure the new springs out before I start cutting to make sure they will fit. If the dimensions are off I will just send them back.

 

I will post some pictures and info next month.

[philcas1987]

wouldn't the easy way be to use the 210 upper strut mounts with 280zx struts. you get to keep some decent suspension travel. chopped springs is just not right

[Spades]

wouldn't the easy way be to use the 210 upper strut mounts with 280zx struts. you get to keep some decent suspension travel. chopped springs is just not right

 

well, the fact that I already replaced everything with new parts makes me not want to go out and buy new turn plates, mounts, springs, and struts. I would much rather buy a set of new, stiff, non-progressive rate springs and take a few coils off than buy new everything.

 

As far as cutting the springs, it will not hurt anything as long as the spring is NOT progressive...meaning that the coil spring rate does not become more or less the higher up the spring...newer cars use that sort of design...so taking a coil off really messes with the spring. Heating a spring is bad, so cutting them with a torch probably is not the best idea...and heating a spring to lower a car is just plain stupid...however, slowly cutting a non-progressive spring shouldn't cause any problems.

[Chingon 510]

hey jdm510 wat rims are those?

[datzenmike]

I want to lower the nose a bit, but considering that I already bought and installed new struts and other goodies for the factory suspension, I was wanting to just find a stiffer spring and shorten it.

 

The Z20 would be about 20-30 lbs heavier, and would bolt in in the same position as the L 16. Because it sits more up right than the L it might seem further back.

 

You say you replaced the struts so this must be the cause of your extra ride height and camber problem. As for the height difference perhaps both front and back springs have sagged form sitting for all that time. If you replaced the front springs, the front may now be up at the correct height and the back is still sagged.

[arkitekz]

Those are Drag Dr-20 15x7 offset 0 i believe. Nice wheels.

[racerx]

Oh shit..did not know this thread was here already. yeh, I have a 510 and I am planning to lower mine too. Notice Spades has a wagon, which will be diferrent from the back since it has leafs. But let me know what you will do and cost since I am on a budget,too. Just paid my property tax.

 

Thanks, RacerX

[racerx]

found this, I was digging, it's for sedan but gives you an idea what kind of springs to use for front.

 

http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11781