wagon starting issues...again

[Pacific coast Datsun]

Ok here we go again. Had the starter go bad on my wagon last week. Verified this by jumping the starter terminals w/ a wrench, motor spins but doesnt engage. Removed the starter off the 620 [verified working great] & installed on the wagon. Turn key to ACC [lights come on the dash], flip hidden switch & still nothing, not a click...nothing.

Awhile back i bypassed the faulty neautral safety switch by wiring in a hidden 2 way switch.

Thought the hidden switch was bad, removed the 2 wires attached to it, touched them & still starter not working.

I then jumped the terminals again & she fired right up.

Called a friend & he said it "could" be a bad ignition switch & or a wire or two that go to the neutral safety switch has come off. All wires are still intact & cant tell if the switch is bad without a OHM meter.

Any idea what else can be causing power not to be getting to the starter? I can keep jumping the terminals but that gets old FAST.

Im about over all the small issues that keep popping up on this car & am considering buying a newer car next year.

[datzenmike]

Jumper the neutral start safety switch... if it starts its the switch... if it doesn't it could be the ignition switch.

 

Also the neutral start safety switch may be out of adjustment. Hold the key in the start position and shift through the gears.... if it clicks or starts the adjustment might be off.

[Pacific coast Datsun]

TY Mike ill try that tomorrow.

If the NS switch needs adjustemnt..how is that done & can i do it ?

FYI the 4 wires that go to the NS switch have NOT been disconnected ever. I simply ran 2 wires off the starter terminal that go to a hidden switch inside the car.

[mklotz70]

If the starter in the rig works good when you short between the terminals.....you're not getting enough amps to the solenoid....common prob with the 510's. Install a relay. Use the wire going to the solenoid trigger the relay, then have a 10ga wire go from the batt to a 30A fuse, to your relay, to your solenoid. There's better writeups and diagrams on here somewhere. I'm sure Hainz has posted some. You won't ever have a prob with it again. Most likely, you can hook your NS switch back up and it will work fine....safer too :)

 

 

 

 

....upon second reading.....you can test the switch circuit with a test light. The contacts in your ign sw maybe faulty......turn the key all the way to start, then let it turn back slowly....maybe even give it a little wiggle. Creatures of habit....you turn the key to the exact same spot every time....you're looking to see if there's a better spot. If the test light lights up everytime you turn the key, but the starter doesn't crank....it's lack of current...do the relay :)

Edited December 30, 2009 by mklotz70

[I'm BLUE]

just a thought and only if needed ( take a looksy )

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datsun-510,240Z-thru-280ZX-Ignition-Electrical-Switch!_W0QQitemZ380191000913QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20091224?IMSfp=TL0912242110010r34043

 

google "RockAuto" it seems your ignition switch contact end goes on a lot of datsuns/nissans !

Edited December 30, 2009 by DTP

[Pacific coast Datsun]

TY guys. Will test the IG switch w/ test light 1st.

Found the relay pic from Hainz & some more good info here........

http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=12599&p=130627&hilit=ignition+switch+wiring#p130627

 

[mklotz70]

just to clarify a bit....you'll be putting the probe in the end of the wire that is connected to the solenoid(after disconnecting it) and the clamp end of the test light to ground. Doing it at the wire on for the starter will test the entire circuit.

[Pacific coast Datsun]

Ok did a few tests with the light & determined that i have no power going to the solenoid [blk wire w/ yellow stripe].

I turned the key to ACC., pulled the wire going to the solenoid & put test light in, no light.

I then kept the key in the ACC. position & probed the back of the IG. switch, no light when i checked the blk. w/ yellow stripe wire.

Keep in mind i have 2 wires coming off the starter going to a 2 way switch, thats how i start the car. I turn the key to ACC then flip the switch.

I checked those 2 wires also, they had no power.

Admittedly im not that good @ electrical issues but im guessing the IG switch is bad. Input........?

Until its figured out ill keep jumping the starter terminals, which sucks BTW :frantics:

[datzenmike]

There would only be power to the solenoid or start safety switch in the START position of the ignition switch wouldn't there?

[I'm BLUE]

Ok means we are all trying to help solve a problem , not to step on anyone's toes but out of these vehicles

 

(1) 1998 subaru loyale (MT)

(2) 1991 subaru legacy (AT)

(3) 1990 ford ranger (MT)

(4) 1998 Isuzu NPR Diesel

(5) 1996 Isuzu NPR Diesel

(6) 1971 GMC 1/2 ton (MT)

(7) 1978 Ford Van (AT)

(8) 1988 Chevy 1/2 ton (AT)

(9) 1997 Nissan Pickup

 

In my experience with all of these vehicles after the neutral safety switch failed , it would allow me to start in any gear rather than stop the car from starting at all or act as a "fail safe" as I am seeing as a thought. Just a thought ,

Now go to this link here http://cgi.ebay.com/...242110010r34043 or go to RockAuto.com do a little research you might have the same end of the ignition switch contact piece you need in your parts ( if you have an extra ) But keeping mind one car not listed needed the neutral safety switch jiggled before starting , so there is always room for comments.

 

Now to all of the Datto Truck owners I have only worked on 240z's , so I apologize in advanced if I am wrong :)

 

Thanks for your time everyone :D

 

DTP

[I'm BLUE]

If you want to find out quick about the switch being bad , why not "hot wire" the car from the inside ? ( or am I wrong ? ) I have only done this once :rofl: ) ( I know this is an impulsive move , but will get results good or bad quick ! )

[Pacific coast Datsun]

Ok good point Mike. I did the same tests with the key in the "start" position & got no results.

I too thought about "hot wiring" to see if the IG switch is bad. May do that tomorrow.

I should just go ahead & buy the E bay part anyways, dont have any spare IG switches.

[Pacific coast Datsun]

I bought the new IG switch off Ebay last night. Ill update when it arrives & is installed.

[I'm BLUE]

Ok good point Mike. I did the same tests with the key in the "start" position & got no results.

I too thought about "hot wiring" to see if the IG switch is bad. May do that tomorrow.

I should just go ahead & buy the E bay part anyways, dont have any spare IG switches.

 

Ok , not to sound insulting by any means lets get errrrr fixed like everyone wishes :D ( this has happened to me on the engine grounding straps that looked fine on #1)

 

Obviously the guys above in this post are pretty sharp , and careful when telling you about the testing for current , and possibly using a relay ! This is all good stuff.

 

(1) how corroded are your cables/grounds to the body/engine or bellhousing ?

(2) Can you go through and either wire brush off a lot of the contact points , or use electrical cleaner than re-attach ?

(3) I was not aware that electricity on the outside of like for example battery cables travels on the outside of the wire , and not the inside of the copper wire itself ? ( WOW ! I could be wrong , but don't want to be right !

(4) Do you by chance have a "Firewall Solenoid" ( mounted to the firewall has red/black cables in general ??? ) these go bad on riding lawnmowers , and i've seen a couple go bad on older Chevy/Ford Trucks. Just a thought , not sure if your system has something like this by chance.

(5) not sure if your engine bay has a seperate black fuse box in the compartment ? ( probably not ? ) I am not sure !

(6) you might consider looking to replace the excite wire wiring (positive wire to the solenoid itself ) , and other that could be burned up means it's been short circuited a few times to start it ? ( just a strong suggestion , and put the correct gauge ( or it shortens the life on some systems )

 

I apologize if I sound derogative , just my experience in many situations as you know what it's like

 

Thanks ! Keep us posted A.S.A.P ! ;)

 

DTP

[I'm BLUE]

I bought the new IG switch off Ebay last night. Ill update when it arrives & is installed.

 

Is there a way you can take pics of the starter , fuse box , ignition switch , wiring , anything so we all can chime in on this a bit better ?

 

Thanks much for your time !

 

DTP

[Pacific coast Datsun]

Is there a way you can take pics of the starter , fuse box , ignition switch , wiring , anything so we all can chime in on this a bit better ?

 

Thanks much for your time !

 

DTP

Right on i appreciate the advice. I sure can get pics of all of the above tomorrow.

[banzai510(hainz)]

see if power is going to the switch first at the connector. if yes then it can be the swithc not routing power. But if no power to the connector(see wire diagram in Hayes or Dime qurterly for color code) If no power then trace back under glove box connection then to fuse box connector then iside fuse box(underneath)area.

[Pacific coast Datsun]

New ignition switch arrived yesterday. Installed, turned key to ACC, flipped toggle switch & nothing.

Underside of fuse box looks clean & no wires loose & all fuses good.

Still no power going to the wire that goes to the solenoid [blk w/ yellow stripe]

Then, ran a thick wire directly from the solenoid connector to the positive battery terminal,,car fired right up.

Reinstalled the old [stock] Ignition switch, & car fired up again.

Id like to know where this inside fuse is under the dash, im guessing thats the issue.

The wiring on this car is UNmolested & as stock as can be.

The good part is now i have an extra IG switch :rolleyes:

[banzai510(hainz)]

I have never seen a switch go bad myself on a 510. But I have had proplems with starting. Its will start but key goes back to ON it will die. or dont Start but catches when key is snapping back to ON.

I usually pull the connector at the key switch and wiggle it.

 

next time this happens see if power is at the connector(remove con behind switch) that goes to the key switch.

 

if there is power I would say its good.

 

You might have to recrimp the connector at the selinoid or maybe untape it incase a wire is loose or soemthing.

 

But you said your loosing the 12volts at the starter wire. if it was weak 12voltsI would recomend a HOT Start relay. But you say you have NO 12volts.

[Pacific coast Datsun]

Thanks Hainz. This issue has me stumped but ill inspect the harness under the dash & look for a loose connection or broken wire. Will also RE-check the fuses,,again.

I tested the IG switch connector with the key in the ACC & START positions & the test light didnt light up [yes its grounded} ;)

Did you mention an "under dash" [inside the car] fuse / fusible link or did i mis read ?

Something is preventing power from going from the IG switch to the solenoid.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Pull the connector off the back of the key switch. The red/wht wire should have power on it all the time as it routes back to the fuse box/fusable link/starter lug/battery. But going by the Dimequarterly digram it does connect to a main white wire. Use your test light(and yes grnd it)

 

all the key switch does it route the power. 1 to the starter and the other would be the Hot start wire(blk/blu).

 

 

another thing you can try is if it dont start or turn over when key is in START position is hold it and have soembody wiggle the connector in back of key switch and wiggle wires around by the fuse box and see if it then trys to start.

 

 

remember the connections under the glove box.

 

also when this happens ck the other stuff out and see if it dont work ,like brake lights ,lights wip incase it uses the same fuse.

 

But this is simple I think youll figure it out.