510 Alignment Suggestions: Street/Canyon/Touge Setup

[ran when park'd]

Sooo.... We're thinking it's a combo pack issue: rear subframe bushings, trailing arm bushings, and a steering box.

 

Honestly, these are the most untouched things on the car.

[Icehouse]

10 minutes ago, ran when park'd said:

I guess it is mostly just straight and the freeway is the fear factor.

 

That's a combination of things.  Defiantly still the rear bushings we talked about.  The major issue is that the 510 is much narrower than a modern car.  So your cars narrow track width is constantly climbing the ruts, with loose rear bushings the sub frame with twitch the alignment back and forth as climbs each rut making it sway.  any tire wider then stock adds positive scrub up front.  The late Baz from Datsport was all about fixing the scrub to make the 510 more enjoyable to drive.  I did some testing on my blue bird coupe not long ago.  I 100% agree with him.  I think it was in Herb Adams suspension design book where he talks about max scrub, I think he said you don't want to go over 1/2".  I calculated my Tan 510 with 195's up front and it was WAY off!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In conclusion we can just slowly take small measures to make our 510 more enjoyable to drive.  My coupe is super low and vibrates like a bastard.  That's what I want to fix next. 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

11 hours ago, Icehouse said:

The late Baz from Datsport was all about fixing the scrub to make the 510 more enjoyable to drive.  I did some testing on my blue bird coupe not long ago.  I 100% agree with him.  I think it was in Herb Adams suspension design book where he talks about max scrub, I think he said you don't want to go over 1/2".  I calculated my Tan 510 with 195's up front and it was WAY off!  

That's right. Scrub can certainly have an effect.

 

Brian Rebello and I played around with fitting 240 struts to one of our 510s a long time ago. Yes, the camber was way off, and I can't remember how we corrected that, but I recall the reason for this exercise was to reduce scrub.

[jbirds510]

On 8/7/2024 at 5:19 AM, iceman510 said:

 

Maybe just me, but I could use a bit more explanation of what this means.

https://youtu.be/Z1A4vprxQaI?si=f0xdqkrGK6KudEcB

A motorcycle term for when the forks stat with a small wobble and QUICKLY turn into a lock to lock frenzy. you can power out taking the weight off or stab the brake and load the fork.

[Icehouse]

2 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

That's right. Scrub can certainly have an effect.

 

Brian Rebello and I played around with fitting 240 struts to one of our 510s a long time ago. Yes, the camber was way off, and I can't remember how we corrected that, but I recall the reason for this exercise was to reduce scrub.

 

I put a bunch of struts on my bench and they were all the same angle.  The ball joint is located in a different spot on the steering arm which helps with scrub.  I need to dig all my struts out again a verify this.  

[datzenmike]

I thought some of the 510 box parts are not available and B210 and A10 boxes are stripped for them.

 

 

Should all be 10⁰ except for the S30 making them useless on anything else. The 510 also had smaller spindle bearings and also the early 610 but all other S30, S130, Z31,  later 610, 710, A10, S10, S110, S12 and B210 used the larger ones.

 

 

 

I saw a strut that was actually bent at the bottom probably to correct the camber..

 

 

 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I've seen them bent on the bottom from collision.

18 hours ago, datzenmike said:

I saw a strut that was actually bent at the bottom probably to correct the camber..

 

[Icehouse]

10 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

I've seen them bent on the bottom from collision.

 

 

My buddy back 20 something years ago, hit a curb bending the strut which also slipped the collar clamp down super low on the strut.  The next day he was asking me why his car was so low.  Haha. Took us a minute to figure that out.  He ruined the tire too.  The Coilover adjuster rubbed on the tire all the way home.  From then on one side had a bit more camber then the other.  Unfortunately shortly after that he got rearened bad.  Bent the roof bad!  It was a S12 strut with no adapter washer.  Amazed me the strut bent but nothing came loose on the steering arm.  I'm sure you've used the S12 struts.  Not much contact on the steering arm.  

[iceman510]

What size and offset are your wheels?  

[ran when park'd]

5 minutes ago, iceman510 said:

What size and offset are your wheels?  

Oh man, it's been some years since I restored them I took notice. They've been its rollers for 5 years. I'll have to pull them off tomorrow to verify. Something like fronts 14x6 maybe et 10 w/185/55, rears 14x7 very low single digit et w/185/55

[ran when park'd]

On 8/8/2024 at 10:15 PM, Icehouse said:

 

That's a combination of things.  Defiantly still the rear bushings we talked about.  The major issue is that the 510 is much narrower than a modern car.  So your cars narrow track width is constantly climbing the ruts, with loose rear bushings the sub frame with twitch the alignment back and forth as climbs each rut making it sway.  any tire wider then stock adds positive scrub up front.  The late Baz from Datsport was all about fixing the scrub to make the 510 more enjoyable to drive.  I did some testing on my blue bird coupe not long ago.  I 100% agree with him.  I think it was in Herb Adams suspension design book where he talks about max scrub, I think he said you don't want to go over 1/2".  I calculated my Tan 510 with 195's up front and it was WAY off!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In conclusion we can just slowly take small measures to make our 510 more enjoyable to drive.  My coupe is super low and vibrates like a bastard.  That's what I want to fix next. 

 

I see what you're saying. But yes, there are a lot of adjustments that can be made with this suspension. I do not think I could go much lower, as I live on a dirt road, the collector is low and I like my front control arms parallel. The more I drive it, the more I feel its rear subframe bushings and odd alignment numbers fighting it.