Transmission rebuilding

[Rusty Dawg]

Howdy folks,

 

I have assembled all parts needed to rebuild an extra J13 engine, but I don't know where to turn to have the transmission in my 1960 - 222 rebuilt.  Any leads would be greatly appreciated.  It shifts nicely, but leaks trans fluid so I need to button it up with new seals/gaskets.

 

Thanks.

[datzenmike]

The front and rear seals you can likely do yourself. Gaskets don't tend to leak unless disturbed. Seals actually wear and can shrink or crack.

 

 

Is this your transmission? Was used on the early 520 but also the 320?? Has clutch arm and oil dipstick on the left side. Top loader floor shift. If yes I have the front and rear seal part numbers. With these numbers many auto supply can cross reference to another maker.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

If that trans is anything like a Sprite/Midget trans, they are kind of a pain to assemble.

[Rusty Dawg]

8 hours ago, datzenmike said:

The front and rear seals you can likely do yourself. Gaskets don't tend to leak unless disturbed. Seals actually wear and can shrink or crack.

 

 

Is this your transmission? Was used on the early 520 but also the 320?? Has clutch arm and oil dipstick on the left side. Top loader floor shift. If yes I have the front and rear seal part numbers. With these numbers many auto supply can cross reference to another maker.

No sir, this is one of my extra's that's exactly like the one in my truck currently.

 

 

[datzenmike]

I think they are both the same transmission. Yours was an earlier column shift so the external shift levers are on the driver's side and the oil dipstick has no room and is on the passenger side. Column or floor... I don't know which came first.

 

Send a private message to this guy, Mike Klotz... https://ratsun.net/profile/11-mklotz70/  ... I'm almost positive this is a picture of his transmission. He's great guy and will help you as much as possible.

 

Another source is wayno... https://ratsun.net/admin/?app=core&module=members&controller=members&do=view&id=5657  ... I think he has Mikes old truck with that transmission. He also has experience with them.

[difrangia]

Check out this guy's thread on the 320 forum on the NICO (Nissan Infiniti Car Owner) website. His name is Andy and he's in Kansas and I don't believe that he's on Ratsun. He did some pretty detailed threads with pics on 320 work that he did. I believe that he had about half a dozen 320's at one time and may still have that many.

 

https://forums.nicoclub.com/running-on-a-budget-63-pl-320-t586738.html

 

Here's link to the NICO 320 forum. NICO also has the shop & parts manuals for the 320 in PDF that you can view and download.

 

https://forums.nicoclub.com/datsun-320-forum.html

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by difrangia

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I would not look forward to rebuilding that trans. The tiny access hole in the side of the trans case makes for tight work.

 

Curious where the shift rod detent springs are on that trans. The BMC trans has them under the side cover, and it's super important to keep the sealant off of them during assembly.

[difrangia]

On 11/2/2022 at 8:35 AM, datzenmike said:

The front and rear seals you can likely do yourself. Gaskets don't tend to leak unless disturbed. Seals actually wear and can shrink or crack.

 

 

Is this your transmission? Was used on the early 520 but also the 320?? Has clutch arm and oil dipstick on the left side. Top loader floor shift. If yes I have the front and rear seal part numbers. With these numbers many auto supply can cross reference to another maker.

 

The opening that you see in this photo is not the clutch arm location; the clutch arm and slave cylinder are on the right side. The opening on the clutch bell in this pic is for the unique rubber vent that is visible in Rusty's pic looking into the clutch/input cavity of the bell. Rusty's pickup is a 222 and I'm not familiar with that vehicle; does it use same column-shift trany as 320 ?

[datzenmike]

Yup, I saw that later. I don't even know the name of this transmission, it's out of my wheelhouse.

[Rusty Dawg]

24 minutes ago, difrangia said:

 

The opening that you see in this photo is not the clutch arm location; the clutch arm and slave cylinder are on the right side. The opening on the clutch bell in this pic is for the unique rubber vent that is visible in Rusty's pic looking into the clutch/input cavity of the bell. Rusty's pickup is a 222 and I'm not familiar with that vehicle; does it use same column-shift trany as 320 ?

My 222 is in fact a column shift and the slave cylinder bolts underneath the starter housing on the trans bell housing.   If you magnify my trans picture, you can see the shaft under the starter housing.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Rusty Dawg

[Rusty Dawg]

Hey datzunmike,

 

Are you saying that if in fact I have a trans leak I should just look to replace the two seals?  The trans shifts smoothly, but it does leak a lot of trans fluid(gear oil) even when sitting.  I had to replace the rear seal a year ago since it completely drained my trans one day and it no longer leaks there.

 

Regards

[datzenmike]

The main gasket between the two halves is very unlikely to leak as it just sits there. The front and rear seals have an oily shaft spinning through it and the seal would like a windshield wiper and some wear is inevitable.

 

Now I'm pretty sure that the floor shift and the column shift transmissions are the same so here are the front and rear seal part numbers...

 

Front cover gasket will likely be destroyed removing it so... 32112-30800 for it. Now this is likely going to be unavailable so RTV will work but be sparing with it as it will squeeze inside as well, or trace the outline on gasket paper and make your own. 

 

Aaaand I can't seem to find the front seal.

 

Rear extension housing seal is 32136-E0100

[difrangia]

Kansas Andy made this 320 column-shift trany part data sheet up several years back and posted on the NICO forum. Might help out. The Victoria British supplier that he refers to is no longer in business. You'll have to cross the numbers over with another Britt car supplier like Moss Motors or Mini-Mania. If you call or mail them these VB numbers, I'd guess they could cross them to their part numbers. These are mostly early 60's Austin-Morris interchange parts.

 

[difrangia]

I don't have first-hand experience with the column-shift transmissions, but I did snag this pic of a 'Clutch-Pro' clutch kit for the column-shift trany that someone posted a couple years ago. Check out clutchpro.com if needed.

 

[datzenmike]

1 hour ago, difrangia said:

Kansas Andy made this 320 column-shift trany part data sheet up several years back and posted on the NICO forum. Might help out. The Victoria British supplier that he refers to is no longer in business. You'll have to cross the numbers over with another Britt car supplier like Moss Motors or Mini-Mania. If you call or mail them these VB numbers, I'd guess they could cross them to their part numbers. These are mostly early 60's Austin-Morris interchange parts.

 

 

Looks like the front seal is part of the gasket. Interesting.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I think the pic is showing the green gasket on the inside of the front cover.

 

I wonder if the 222 trans even has a front seal. The BMC trans does not have a seal on the input shaft, just a reverse scroll.

[datzenmike]

Yeah the green one appears to have a seal incorporated into it. Also my parts info does not indicate one

[difrangia]

Open up the 320 PDF parts manual on the webpage linked below and go down to about page 120. Study the exploded diagrams and parts pages for the column-shift transmission and it appears that there might not be a seal on the input, but rather a spiral like Matt mentioned the Britts transmissions having that directs the lube back into the lube sump. the front housing gasket appears to be just a gasket. I think the image on the 'Andy Parts Sheet' that I posted may have been grabbed and excised from an assembly photo so that it appears there is a seal mated with the gasket. If I had a 320 and didn't have a parts and shop manual, I'd damn sure download these and archive them. These are invaluable manuals if you tinker around on one of these critters.

 

https://www.nicoclub.com/datsun-service-manuals

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by difrangia

[datzenmike]

Page 99 showing the gears includes the cover plate and gasket. The cover plate clearly shows a spiral groove inside and there is also a machined groove inside the cover plate to a drain back hole in the gasket to return any oil into the transmission case.

[Rusty Dawg]

21 hours ago, difrangia said:

Open up the 320 PDF parts manual on the webpage linked below and go down to about page 120. Study the exploded diagrams and parts pages for the column-shift transmission and it appears that there might not be a seal on the input, but rather a spiral like Matt mentioned the Britts transmissions having that directs the lube back into the lube sump. the front housing gasket appears to be just a gasket. I think the image on the 'Andy Parts Sheet' that I posted may have been grabbed and excised from an assembly photo so that it appears there is a seal mated with the gasket. If I had a 320 and didn't have a parts and shop manual, I'd damn sure download these and archive them. These are invaluable manuals if you tinker around on one of these critters.

 

https://www.nicoclub.com/datsun-service-manuals

 

This is some good info mister.  Much appreciated.

[datzenmike]

I added it to my list of bookmarks.

[difrangia]

Pretty much all the Air-Cooled VW's had the spiral oil capture groove on the pulley at the rear of the engine. The racing and sand applications incorporated the Lip-Seal for the crankshaft A simple spiral groove or two would make the lube go where you wanted it to. My current daily-driver is a 64 VW Bug with a warmed up 1600 DP that really gets the ol' blood pumpin and it still has the spiral groove on the rear pulley !! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Mini Mania and others sell custom front covers for the BMC transmissions with a larger area cast in and machined for a seal. I machined my stock front cover for a seal and it works fine.

 

Is there a possibility that the BMC and the Datsun trans share that front cover bolt pattern? The clutch arm positioning looks the same, so...?

 

The Mini Mania website lists seven different front covers. Morris Minor, Sprite, right and left hand drive, smoothcase and ribcase - https://www.minimania.com/part/C-22G124/Ribcase-Gearbox-Front-Cover-W-seal-Morris-Minor-Lhd-Only

[Rusty Dawg]

On 11/6/2022 at 10:00 AM, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Mini Mania and others sell custom front covers for the BMC transmissions with a larger area cast in and machined for a seal. I machined my stock front cover for a seal and it works fine.

 

Is there a possibility that the BMC and the Datsun trans share that front cover bolt pattern? The clutch arm positioning looks the same, so...?

 

The Mini Mania website lists seven different front covers. Morris Minor, Sprite, right and left hand drive, smoothcase and ribcase - https://www.minimania.com/part/C-22G124/Ribcase-Gearbox-Front-Cover-W-seal-Morris-Minor-Lhd-Only

Two of those look similar to mine.  How would one go about double checking if one of those might be a match?  How educated are the parts sales folks at a Mini Mania?  I suppose that I could purchase one and if it isn't a match send it back and try another.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I would order a gasket and a seal and see if the gasket matches the bolt pattern on your trans and see if the seal matches the OD of your input shaft.

 

You could probably have a local machine shop machine your cover for a seal, like I did on my Sprite.

 

There's only one guy at Mini Mania that knows anything. And he's in the shop. All the guys you will speak to on the phone are not well versed in the actual parts. Such is the nature of business these days...

16 hours ago, Rusty Dawg said:

Two of those look similar to mine.  How would one go about double checking if one of those might be a match?  How educated are the parts sales folks at a Mini Mania?  I suppose that I could purchase one and if it isn't a match send it back and try another.

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Stoffregen Motorsports