Working on the Dually - VG33ER swap

[DuallyDatsun]

I've been messing around with this for a couple months, between bad weather and illness progress has been kind of slow, but I'm chugging along. 

 

Short story version. I have an 81 720 dually. A couple years ago the engine lost oil pressure on the freeway and seized up. Last fall I picked up a supercharged xterra for $800. This year I'm going ham and putting the engine in the dually. 

 

First started off by clearing out and cleaning up the engine bay on the dually.

 

I chopped the rad support across the front I such a way that I can use some small plates and bolt it back into place later, simply because doing the swap was going to be a much easier process with the entire front end open. (Honestly don't know why more vehicles don't have easily removable rad support sections)

[DuallyDatsun]

Next step was tearing apart the xterra and pulling the engine. Which was an absolute pain the neck. That auto tabs and transfer case are massive. Luckily I won't be needing them.

 

I have an FS5R30A manual transmission that I'm going to be using. 

[DuallyDatsun]

Gave the engine a good wash, then started doing some test fitting so I could work on mounts and such while I wait for parts. 

 

It's a tall boy. Gonna be chopping the hood into a ridiculous reverse cowl to make it fit, but I expected that. Among other fitment issues. Can't really have it sit lower than that, because of where the oil pan hangs down to, because I plan on lowering the hell out of the truck later.

 

Engine mount locations are close enough to give me a good idea of how to modify things to make them fit where I want them. 

 

I still need to bolt on the trans and see where it is going to be sitting underneath everything. Because more than likely I'm going to have to make some big cross member modifications to mount it up in there. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by DuallyDatsun

[DuallyDatsun]

Then, just for good measure, I rammed my head into the engine hoist. 0/10 do not recommend. 😆 

 

No it didn't fix my madness.

[DuallyDatsun]

If anyone has any pointers on fitting the VG into these things, I'd love to hear it. I've seen a few finished VG30 swaps in some photos and such, but I've done a lot of searching and haven't really seen any write ups. There's a couple of people complaining about it on forums when doing VG swaps into their 4x4 720s, but again, not a lot of photos or documentation on their processes. Also haven't seen anyone try a VG33ER. Probably because of how tall the engine sits.

 

I was considering doing a VG30ET oil pan swap, since they don't have that dog leg sticking down, but it seems like it's a lot more complicated than just a different pick up and pan. So I'll just deal with it as it is.

 

I do plan on swapping out the 2.6 pulley for a 2.4 (should get me about a 25-30hp bump), and redoing the timing belt and water pump, and several of the engine gaskets, all before I do the final install. All in all, looking at about 240hp, which will be plenty for any of the hauling I plan to do with the dually.

[Fast720]

Hi 

It's been a long time since I have on here just too busy , you should look at my build it might help you . 

Good luck and have fun !!!! I will be back on here next year to finish Blue Thunder

[DuallyDatsun]

Nice! Thank you for the link. I don't think I've seen that one yet. I'll definitely be looking through there for any tips I can use on my build.

 

Progress has been a little slow for me because my job keeps shifting my schedule, I have a side hustle that takes up a lot of my extra time, and I made the decision to start going back to college again. I got the passenger side engine mount made, and I did make a driver's side engine mount, but I messed up my measurements pretty bad somewhere, so I need to make that one again. Really wish I had more time to work on the truck consistently. 

 

I got the new flywheel, clutch, etc... for the engine, so I can use it with a manual transmission, instead of the automatic it came with and a FS5R30A 5spd to put behind it. 

 

Still got a few things, like all the wiring, to tear out of the Xterra before I finally get rid of it. But hopefully that'll be gone soon.

 

But yeah, overall I just wish I had more time to work on it. I really want to get it done.

[DuallyDatsun]

Forgive my bad welds, I'm still learning and only have a 110v gasless flux core mig to work with. Regardless of the ugly, you can see just how bad I messed up on measuring the driver's side mount. I accidentally cut things out with it angled the opposite direction than it was supposed to be. So that entire piece is gonna get scrapped and redone. And honestly, I'm gonna redo the passenger side one, too. So it actually sets onto the mount better, but at least that one is close enough to where it needs to be that it will be easy. 

[DuallyDatsun]

Gonna need to redo both mounts anyway, because at their currently length the oil pan is sitting on the steering linkage. Which is no good for obvious reasons. 😆

[]2eDeYe]

That's a big boy. 

[DuallyDatsun]

6 hours ago, ]2eDeYe said:

That's a big boy. 

 

Yeah. The VG33 in the xterras all have that massive doglegged oil pan. I'm going to have to modify it so it's not hanging down so far, because I plan on lowering the truck, and I would rather not crush my oil pan. 

 

Sadly, it's a huge pain to try and just swap on the shallow VG30 oil pan. The pickup is in a different location, and that pickup only works with the vg30 crank, vg30 oil pump, etc... and it's a huge PITA to swap. So, the best answer is just modifying the VG33 oil pan and pick up. 

[RyanC]

Interesting project.  Can you cut and modify the oil pan? Assume the pickup is in that dog leg..deep section.

[DuallyDatsun]

51 minutes ago, RyanC said:

Interesting project.  Can you cut and modify the oil pan? Assume the pickup is in that dog leg..deep section.

 

It would require cutting and modifying the pick up as well. Just gotta make sure I seal everything well, and don't leave any sort of metal shavings behind to get sucked up. I've also never done it before, but the internet is a wealth of info

[wayno]

On 5/18/2022 at 5:33 AM, DuallyDatsun said:

Forgive my bad welds, I'm still learning and only have a 110v gasless flux core mig to work with. Regardless of the ugly, you can see just how bad I messed up on measuring the driver's side mount. I accidentally cut things out with it angled the opposite direction than it was supposed to be. So that entire piece is gonna get scrapped and redone. And honestly, I'm gonna redo the passenger side one, too. So it actually sets onto the mount better, but at least that one is close enough to where it needs to be that it will be easy. 

 

When welding with a mig you need to get the metal your welding clean, and I mean really clean, I use my "Passport Plus" mig welder using 110 most the time and I run it hot so it penetrates deep on thick metal like that, my welder will not weld 1/4" using fluxcore with 115V, it will just barely using gas, using fluxcore it needs 230V.

 

You also need a different oil pan, that one is not going to work and you need that engine to be lower, I self taught myself to weld and I have been welding stuff together for years/decades, even with a good welder modifying an oil pan using that welder with your experience, well it will never work, I cannot even do it unless it is that small hole they punch into oil pans at the wrecking yards, and then I have to test it to see if it will hold water, it usually takes more than one try, mig flux core welding makes these invisible holes in thin metal like oil pans are made of.

 

Also thin metal warps when you try to weld, does your welder have a graph for what your settings need to be with the thickness of the metal you are welding, if not you need to search what your settings should be, you need to make small circles so you go back over what you just welded so you have a puddle, or you need a slow moving steady hand, I am not steady enough so I use circles, I am sure I am not explaining this right but that weld will likely break as the welds appear to be on the surface.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

On 5/19/2022 at 5:09 AM, DuallyDatsun said:

 

It would require cutting and modifying the pick up as well. Just gotta make sure I seal everything well, and don't leave any sort of metal shavings behind to get sucked up. I've also never done it before, but the internet is a wealth of info

Modifying a pickup needs to be done carefully. If there are any pinholes in the weld, it can suck air and toast the bearings. Also, the pickup needs to be supported properly, especially if you are making it longer. Before you modify a pickup, take some measurements to determine how far off the bottom of the pan it needs to be, and duplicate that measurement.

 

Welding dirty metal sucks bad. I had respiratory issues years ago that were caused by welding on dirty metal. Even if the metal is clean, oil and electro-plating around the area or inside the frame rail can heat up and smoke, which is like breathing in an entire pack of Camels all at once. Even cleaning needs to be done carefully. Certain chemical cleaners leave a residue that, when heated, can cause vapors that can actually kill you, like right away.

[DuallyDatsun]

On 5/20/2022 at 12:44 AM, wayno said:

 

When welding with a mig you need to get the metal your welding clean, and I mean really clean, I use my "Passport Plus" mig welder using 110 most the time and I run it hot so it penetrates deep on thick metal like that, my welder will not weld 1/4" using fluxcore with 115V, it will just barely using gas, using fluxcore it needs 230V.

 

You also need a different oil pan, that one is not going to work and you need that engine to be lower, I self taught myself to weld and I have been welding stuff together for years/decades, even with a good welder modifying an oil pan using that welder with your experience, well it will never work, I cannot even do it unless it is that small hole they punch into oil pans at the wrecking yards, and then I have to test it to see if it will hold water, it usually takes more than one try, mig flux core welding makes these invisible holes in thin metal like oil pans are made of.

 

Also thin metal warps when you try to weld, does your welder have a graph for what your settings need to be with the thickness of the metal you are welding, if not you need to search what your settings should be, you need to make small circles so you go back over what you just welded so you have a puddle, or you need a slow moving steady hand, I am not steady enough so I use circles, I am sure I am not explaining this right but that weld will likely break as the welds appear to be on the surface.

 The problem with trying to use a different oil pan is this. I have the choice between the dog legged pickup truck oil pan, or the thick nissan quest oil pan. I can't use the shallow pan from the VG30 options like the Z31/32 because, according to several sources I could find, I would have to change the oil pick up, crankshaft, oil pump, etc... (lots of parts, not worth the effort or money.) I might end up having to go with the nissan quest VG33 oil pan, but it's going to mean my engine is going to sit another 3 inches higher in the engine bay. My hope with being able to modify the xterra pan was to have the engine sitting lower, because I wanted to make sure the engine and trans sat level in the tunnel so I don't have pinion angle issues and to avoid fitment issues in the tunnel because everything is up higher. Other than that, there is no shallow aftermarket VG33E oil pan that I can find out there, if they do exist.

[DuallyDatsun]

scratch that. Turns out I can't use the nissan quest oil pan anyway because it sits basically backwards from the xterra one (deep part to the front of the engine instead of the back.), because it's for a fwd application instead of a 4wd/2wd application.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

On 5/23/2022 at 7:04 AM, DuallyDatsun said:

scratch that. Turns out I can't use the nissan quest oil pan anyway because it sits basically backwards from the xterra one (deep part to the front of the engine instead of the back.), because it's for a fwd application instead of a 4wd/2wd application.

That's where modifying the pickup comes into play. You could extend the pickup to reach further back, and TIG welding or brazing is the best way to make air tight welds. You could do it with a MIG, but it would be tricky. Either way, pressure testing the pickup after it's modified is recommended.

 

Finding the proper size tubing and being able to bend it will be the biggest challenge. I keep a selection of misc pickups just for this purpose. Cut the pieces out of existing pickups to make or modify another one.

[Fast720]

Hi

VG30 from a D21 has a small oil pan , not a big dog leg , I have an engine in my shop , will get a pick of the bottom and post it for you .

The truck was a D21 2 wheel drive , 5 speed , full load , factory sunroof , A/C . the guy was trying to fix an exhaust leak and drilled into the water jackets in the head .

I stripped the truck ............. should have dropped a VQ35 in it.

 

[Fast720]

Hi here is a pic of the VG30 From a D21 , so that shouldn't be too hard to find in the US A pan and an oil pickup.

Hope this helps , a lot easier than making one , especially if you don't have the means .

Cheers Fast720