distributor problems.

[moparvwfreak]

i figured let the other thread die since i hijacked it. (sorry) :(

 

 

Matchbox dizzy out of a 79 620. the ONLY one i have found in the yards. no spark with the EI coil and 2 new (used) control units. doesn't matter what i do. no spark. all the wires look good and have continuity. 12v at the coil. works fine with the points but no spark what so ever on the EI. jumper wires are made going directly to the coil not through the OE wiring. and are wired according to the install directions i found off Olddatsuns.com. B to positive side C to negative side. extra ground wire has been made grounding to the coil bracket (the only place i could get with a screw small enough to go through the eye of the connector). ballast has been removed, new coil, new boxes, connections are all clean, new plugs, new cap, new rotor. this is frustrating. any ideas????

[Cuts metal like mad]

Barnicles... Check for spark at the coil... May hurt a bit but won't kill you if you use one hand. Anyone know a better way than grabbing the end of the coil wire :D

[DISLEXICDIME]

i figured let the other thread die since i hijacked it. (sorry) :(

 

 

Matchbox dizzy out of a 79 620. the ONLY one i have found in the yards. no spark with the EI coil and 2 new (used) control units. doesn't matter what i do. no spark. all the wires look good and have continuity. 12v at the coil. works fine with the points but no spark what so ever on the EI. jumper wires are made going directly to the coil not through the OE wiring. and are wired according to the install directions i found off Olddatsuns.com. B to positive side C to negative side. extra ground wire has been made grounding to the coil bracket (the only place i could get with a screw small enough to go through the eye of the connector). ballast has been removed, new coil, new boxes, connections are all clean, new plugs, new cap, new rotor. this is frustrating. any ideas????

 

are you using a good rotor hows the gap in the reluctor in side look

[datzenmike]

On the T shaped plug on the matchbox the vertical connector (I) should have 12 volts from the ignition and also be connected to the +side of the coil, the cross (-) should go to the neg side of the coil.

 

Stick an old spark plug in the coil wire and lay on the grounded fender. Remove dizzy, take the cap off and spin the rotor by hand. There should be sparks at the plug.

[Bandit240]

The Ei system failed on my 78 datsun not too long ago. I used info found in the other EI thread to get it going useing a HEI module. Maybe you could try remove the little box on the dizzy and hook up a HEI module and see if that makes it work. My truck had the box under the dash, not on the dizzy, but the HEI did the truck.

[moparvwfreak]

Barnicles... Check for spark at the coil... May hurt a bit but won't kill you if you use one hand. Anyone know a better way than grabbing the end of the coil wire :D

ummmm....no. i have a spark tester for that. an old spark plug and a true spark tester.

 

 

 

are you using a good rotor hows the gap in the reluctor in side look

rotor is less than a week old. dunno how the air gap looks. i will check that and report back. if its out of spec is there a way to adjust it???

 

 

On the T shaped plug on the matchbox the vertical connector (I) should have 12 volts from the ignition and also be connected to the +side of the coil, the cross (-) should go to the neg side of the coil.

yup. done and done. 12v at the coil and at the I part of the connector. the cross is (was) hooked to the neg side as specified in the DEstructions i read.

 

Stick an old spark plug in the coil wire and lay on the grounded fender. Remove dizzy, take the cap off and spin the rotor by hand. There should be sparks at the plug.

did that. nothing happened. no spark what so ever. threw the points back in... she runs, just not hte way i want her to.

 

The Ei system failed on my 78 datsun not too long ago. I used info found in the other EI thread to get it going useing a HEI module. Maybe you could try remove the little box on the dizzy and hook up a HEI module and see if that makes it work. My truck had the box under the dash, not on the dizzy, but the HEI did the truck.

i have a total of 3 modules fot his dizzy. i doubt that all 3 are bad. if all else fails i will snag one from Schmucks here soon. got a few other peices i need to get first since she runs on the points.

Edited November 27, 2008 by moparvwfreak

[Cuts metal like mad]

Was kidding about grabbing the coil wire... Just sayin to test spark at coil. The match boxes and coil you picked up today all tested good on my 620... That's why I was savin them, so either you wiring is the problem or the pickup inside the dizzy is bad... Check the internal wiring for breaks or damage. Also spin the dizzy by hand, it should spin freely with little resistence.

[moparvwfreak]

Was kidding about grabbing the coil wire... Just sayin to test spark at coil. The match boxes and coil you picked up today all tested good on my 620... That's why I was savin them, so either you wiring is the problem or the pickup inside the dizzy is bad... Check the internal wiring for breaks or damage. Also spin the dizzy by hand, it should spin freely with little resistence.

 

i figured theyw ere good which is why i said that i doubted all 3 matchbox's were bad. i am thinking the hall effect is dead. i will check the wiring again. do you know how hard these dizzys are to take apart???

[Pacific coast Datsun]

Maybe ditch the remote ignitor boxes & use the HEI....think it was mentioned already but ill add this. IF you go with the HEI it HAS to be grounded to work right. One side had a metal sleeve, run the screw on that hole to a solid ground.

[datzenmike]

Stick an old spark plug in the coil wire and lay on the grounded fender. Remove dizzy, take the cap off and spin the rotor by hand. There should be sparks at the plug.

 

Is the dizzy making contact with the drive spindle... is it even turning??? Take the cap off and crank to see for sure if it turns. How can 3 dizzy matchboxes be bad?????

Edited November 27, 2008 by datzenmike

[Cuts metal like mad]

This threadvis getting confusing... Fast. It's not the remote type ei dizzy, it's the matchbox type, there's only one dizzy and 3 of the control boxes.

[moparvwfreak]

Maybe ditch the remote ignitor boxes & use the HEI....think it was mentioned already but ill add this. IF you go with the HEI it HAS to be grounded to work right. One side had a metal sleeve, run the screw on that hole to a solid ground.

 

matchbox. not remote. if i had the remote ones i would do that. hell imight try to find one and do the HEI deal if need be.

 

Is the dizzy making contact with the drive spindle... is it even turning??? Take the cap off and crank to see for sure if it turns. How can 3 dizzy matchboxes be bad?????

 

no its not making contact and yes it does turn freely. smooth as glass to be exact. i still need to measure teh air gap. i highly doubt that all 3 'boxes are bad. i am starting to think the hall sender is shot. or something.

edit: i misread. i thought you were saying was the center making contact with the outer ring. i must be tired if i misread that. yes it is engaging the drive spindle and yes it is turning.

 

 

This threadvis getting confusing... Fast. It's not the remote type ei dizzy, it's the matchbox type, there's only one dizzy and 3 of the control boxes.

 

tell me bout it. at least i can understand it, somewhat.. :mellow:

Edited November 27, 2008 by moparvwfreak

[Cuts metal like mad]

What dmike is saying is, is the slot in the bottom of the distributor making full engagement with the drive spindle (tab) inside the timing cover when you drop it in, and does the rotor turn when you turn over the engine with the dizzy bolted down (will take 2 people to figure this one out).

 

Also as stated above, you can wire it up, with the dizzy unbolted and in your hand, with the coil wire off the coil should fire when you turn the distributor by hand from the bottom... This is not another joke... :D you don't have to hold the coil wire, like you said you have a spark tester.

[moparvwfreak]

What dmike is saying is, is the slot in the bottom of the distributor making full engagement with the drive spindle (tab) inside the timing cover when you drop it in, and does the rotor turn when you turn over the engine with the dizzy bolted down (will take 2 people to figure this one out).

 

yes it is making full engagement. and yes it turns when the cranked with the dizzy bolted down. and it wont take 2 people if you ahve a remote start switch ;) which i have.

 

Also as stated above, you can wire it up, with the dizzy unbolted and in your hand, with the coil wire off the coil should fire when you turn the distributor by hand from the bottom... This is not another joke... :D you don't have to hold the coil wire, like you said you have a spark tester.

 

i have done this and nothing. zip, zilch, nada!

[Cuts metal like mad]

WOW! That sucks... Well it's the sensor or wiring, shelve it fir now, or testthe sensor if your just curious to know.

 

Like I told you when you came by, I swapped the pertonix distributor out for a good distributor with points, cause for some reason I couldn't get the pertronix to run as good... It may go back in later but, not soon.

[moparvwfreak]

yeah i am running the dual points dizzy right now running single points. it runs but not right. it wants to back fire so i know the timing isn't spot on. it pops a little at times. the timing jumps around alot unlike with the EI stuff. i ahve the EI stuffs set aside so i can figure this out at a later date.

 

well i think i figured out what is wrong. the airgap was at .049. over DOUBLE max spec according to olddatsuns. that would most likely be why its not fireing.

 

 

 

 

those little peices below the star wheel, are part OF the star wheel. the tips are sheared off the wheel. dont ask me how but thats what i have deducted. now HOW in the hell does that happen?

Edited November 27, 2008 by moparvwfreak
added pics.

[Cuts metal like mad]

Air gap was too tight and the little tips of the starwheel hit the outer ring breaking them...

[datzenmike]

Maybe the shaft is sloppy and it hit? I got 0.012" to 0.020" air gap for a matchbox. If you remove the box and unplug the pickup coil wires check for continuity through the pick up coil with a resistance meter. If there is a break in the coil wire it won't work.

[moparvwfreak]

Air gap was too tight and the little tips of the starwheel hit the outer ring breaking them...

maybe but how would you adjust that?

 

Maybe the shaft is sloppy and it hit? I got 0.012" to 0.020" air gap for a matchbox. If you remove the box and unplug the pickup coil wires check for continuity through the pick up coil with a resistance meter. If there is a break in the coil wire it won't work.

 

possibly. but it seemed tight to me. i will tear it down more when i can get teh screw holding the vac advance off. maybe a rebuild for the dizzy is in order. pull-a-part, here i come again.

[LenRobertson]

A couple of links you might look at:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20050312092651/home.att.net/~jason510/Dizzy_FAQ.htm

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20050205191114/www.jrdemers.com/280ZX/distributor/distributor.html

 

My guess is your shaft bushings have worn to the point the starwheel hit the outer ring and has broken/worn to the extent you have a a big gap. When you wiggle the rotor end of the shaft back an forth (side to side), there shouldn't be much side play. I recall reading somewhere if the starwheel hits the ring, it may crack one of the two parts, but I don't know if that keeps it from working.

 

Does anyone know a source of new Matchbox shaft bushings? The guy in the above link used to sell them, but since his page is in web.archive, I suspect he may be out of the biz.

[moparvwfreak]

botha re very informative. thanks for the links.

[datzenmike]

My guess is your shaft bushings have worn to the point the starwheel hit the outer ring and has broken/worn to the extent you have a a big gap. When you wiggle the rotor end of the shaft back an forth (side to side), there shouldn't be much side play. I recall reading somewhere if the starwheel hits the ring, it may crack one of the two parts, but I don't know if that keeps it from working.

 

I agree Len, it might still trigger with a wider gap.

 

The fact that it appears to be wired up right with new coil, so how can three boxes be bad? The air gap might be a problem but if the pick up coil has a broken wire it sure won't work.

 

Moparvwfreak disconnect the box and use a meter across the pick uo coil to test for some resistance. Infinite resistance would indicate a an open or break in the windings. If this is the case any coil even from a 280z would work.

[moparvwfreak]

Tested the PU coil last night and it does have some resistance. I do think the wider airgap is to blame though. When it ran it ran oh so nice. Then no start due to no spark. I will try to mod an A motor dizzy next time I am out at PAP.

[datzenmike]

I doubt they are different, why make different ones for the same thing? These items should fit........................................... your pocket.:D

[moparvwfreak]

I doubt they are different, why make different ones for the same thing? These items should fit........................................... your pocket.:D

 

exactly :D